To those of you who don't like unions- Page 2

[jordangirl]

Posted: 11/22/07 at 5:00pm

Curtain ~ I think the other workers Mr. Roxy was referring to were those OUTSIDE the theatre world per se, but whose livelihoods depend largely on theatre crowds ~ bartenders, waiters, etc. in bars and restaurants in the theatre district. Sure it may have been too late for some people to change their plans, but the longer the strike goes on, the more people WILL cancel plans. Are the Local 1 strike fund or the producers helping them? I doubt it.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 11/22/07 at 5:06pm

Thanks. This is exactly what I mean. I think he knows who I was referring to but he wants to sidestep the question. The union is 100 % right - no matter what. Whoever gets hurt by it, who cares & who gives a ****. So much for compassion

In the words of Marie Antoinette " Let them eat cake" . She also said "**** them all except those in the union" but that quote never made it into the history books

Updated On: 11/22/07 at 05:06 PM

[DoranC]

Posted: 11/22/07 at 5:47pm

"I read that this is having a minimal effect on Broadways other business because Tourist cannot cancel reservation or just won't for the Holidays. So how much of it is effecting other business is bad but not any worse than if a show has to close because of low ticket sales."

How can 27 shows closing all at the same time not be any worse than an indivual show closing due to a lack of ticket sales?

The only sense in which I've heard the effect (thus far) on other businesses described as minimal (and it didn't even use that belittling of a word) was in terms of NYC's overall economy. Some businesses in the theatre district are doing fine, but others have seen drops and some significant drops.

[cooperross]

Posted: 11/22/07 at 6:01pm

Private businesses have a right to do what ever they see fit within the law to meet the bottom line and appease shareholders.

And being union didn't help the air traffic controllers now did it?

[dented146]

Posted: 11/22/07 at 6:01pm

Tkt, There is, in deed, much I don't understand. But the little guy is the one that gets hurt. History is replete with that lesson. I hope you get a contract that makes you happy because the producers will remain wealthy.

And,of course, the theatres with very successful shows will continue to collect the interest on the 20-30 million in advance ticket sales so they will be ok.

This strike needs to be resolved for everyone's sake.

[roadguy]

Posted: 11/22/07 at 6:01pm

Mr Roxy,
I'm sorry i don't have a link handy, but go to Playbill.com. THey have a very good timeline of the strike. It shows that negotiations started a couple weeks before the contract expired. Negotiations weren't a last minute thing.

"The question I have is if the contract expired months ago, this should have been resolved than not trying to do it at the last minute."

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/22/07 at 6:05pm

Anytime any Union goes on strike, others are affected by it. It's the nature of the beast. None of us live in a bubble. When the transit workers struck we were affected by it, when truckers strike we are affected by it when grocery store checkers strike we are affected by it. To say that the strikers are selfish and not thinking of anyone but themselves, can be said of anyone who strikes. I don't believe that anyone enters into a strike willingly or without contemplating the consequences for themselves and the others who are affected. There's never a good time to strike.

But what's the point of striking if it doesn't affect those you are striking against, in the way that will hurt the most? In this case it's the wallet. Waiting until January would have probably dragged the strike out even longer. The League and the Producers would have less to lose if they didn't settle, since it is traditionally a downtime in attendance anyway. So, what would be their motivation for bargaining? I'm sure they would have been much happier with a January strike, having the Holiday monies safely tucked away in their bank accounts.

Updated On: 11/22/07 at 06:05 PM

[roadguy]

Posted: 11/22/07 at 6:16pm

BroadwayBen,
Your comment quoted below makes me sick. I'm sorry. Just because most of america doesn't make a good living why should I?? I don't get the same paycheck and workrules the League does. So why should the League get it?? This mindset is what is screwing the world. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, because John Doe doesn't make 6 figures a year, why should Jane Doe get it. The reason Local One is fighting over this is so more people CAN get better jobs. I agree that the non-theatre related businesses might be suffering from this strike, but instead of whining about it, do something about it. The reason any union stands up for itself is to create better working conditions. Just because the union is specific to a job(local one = stagehands, UAW = car makers, etc..) doesn't mean what they do doesn't have an effect on others. The crappy part about this strike, unlike most others, it affects more "outsiders". A UAW strike, doesn't slow down business to restaurants in detroit. So as my taxes and cost of living go up, the cost of gas keeps rising, I should make less money because you don't have the balls to stand up and say, I deserve more than what I make in a year.
"So why is everyone defending work rules that millions of Americans don't get. Why should they get them?"

[Mooo]

Posted: 11/22/07 at 6:41pm

Dented146 said:

"Consider the actors. They begin their long arduous climb to Broadway as kids in school, workshops, college. They work in regional productions and support themselves with no end jobs. And if they are the cream of the crop they may luck into a touring company or finally find their way to Broadway. It's a giant climb in which few are sucessful. The financial and emotional investment is gigantic. They deserve every dime they get and then some and desperately need their union.

Is that how it is for the stagehands? "

I started in 7th grade running lights for the school play. Did it all through grade school. Earned a BFA from a university while doing stock every summer. Came to NYC and worked non-union for several years to the tune of about 70 hours/week for $28,000/year. Got a union job because of my work ethic and talent and became a member of IATSE Local 1 10 years ago.
Don't talk to me about my job being handed to me. I will also tell you that people like me are very common on Broadway today. If my son wants to follow in my footsteps I will proudly teach him the trade and make no apologies for helping him get a job.
I really don't think people understand the technology that runs Broadway today. We're not talking about just mopping floors here.

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 11/22/07 at 8:07pm

roadguy-


There is always someone out there who wants more but are not willing or able to do what it takes to get it. Business set these Standards and help dictate wages. Please don't let them get you angry. It is a common tactic they use to bully people into getting angry because they should always get more. it also is the sign of a weak argument.

You guys are just fighting to keep what you already have. The temptation to just say forget it and leave all of Broadway high and dry has to be great right now.

Either way, they aren't getting their shows. If they have a complaint let them go to the Management. Where else are they going to go to see a show on this scale? Not too many places offer it. Most of these people have no concept of how big money works. It would take a week to explain and really all of you have done a fine job making it quite clear to us what it is you do and how dangerous the work is.

Maybe it's true, you have been working with complete idiots all of these years and finally some business folks have come along to set all of your straight! Imagine that! ;p

Even still, since those suits can't do even half of the stuff you know how to do efficiently and well they will settle or get their pants sued off of them by their investors. Those who are losing hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars everyday on shows people want to see but can't because they think they can get more for less.

So it seems that unfortunately all of the picketing is doing is making investors furious which makes Producer furious and will finally bring down the League to it's senses or they will find their Theatres going black more and more. Who wants to invest with idiots who cannot see the real cost a strike brings to an already over priced, under budgeted show to begin with?

Yet they needed this to get the ball rolling. I just hope that everyone uses this time to get to know each other. If you work together you can help everyone make it through this experience.
_____________________________________________________________

For those of you who are at the most risk, there are programs in the City that can help you. Hopefully your Union can direct you to social services that will help you pay your Utilities, rental assistance, food and even shelter if it goes that far. Most cities are prepared to help out in emergencies. If you are that much at risk, please ask for some help locally. This is the time and many people give to these organizations to help out especially when things like this happens. After Christmas these agencies are often depleted so don't wait too soon if you feel you will need some help through the Holidays.

I would like to think those who say they really love the Theatre will be there to offer whatever assistance you can. Whether it is making donations to your local food bank, utility company or even offering food or lunch to a striking worker. If you can spend a $50 or 100 bucks for one show can't you at least pitch in some when they are fighting for benefits they will need to get through the Winter? No matter what they make, they still have Mortgages, College Tuition, Car Payments and Taxes to pay. Some are caring for Elderly Parents or Disabled Children. Not everyone is making so much money.

You can also go into town and shop for Christmas and go out for lunch and dinner like you would normally do. Everything looks so nice and Starbucks has some good coffee specials this time of the year, so go and treat yourself and someone else.

No matter which side you are on, these business need your support. Check out the discounts and ask for them when in town if need be.

I don't care how angry people are. No one likes a strike.

[Taka]

Posted: 11/22/07 at 10:21pm

I think I've finally read enough to get it. Before I was unsure, but now it suddenly makes sense.

If the strike lasts longer, it's true that it will scare some ticket holders away, but eventually they'll come back. This is because although there would be less of an audience, Broadway will still be rich in quality and would continue to evolve. But if this is ended too quickly and unfairly, then THAT will spell out the end of Broadway as we know it. A while back someone posted the League's failed contract and the amendment the League made to it, and localoneguy pointed out the several things that were wrong with that contract that didn't make any sense whatsoever. Imagine if a contract like that was soon imposed on the actors, the musicians, etc? I hardly see anyone worrying about that.