#TonysSoWhite ? — Page 4

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#76

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 1:39am

Wayman_Wong said: ' Yes, she and Young lost Sunday night, but are Mimi Lien and Jane Greenwood (who finally won after 21 tries) chopped liver?

Upsets happen at awards. That's showbiz.

I think I mentioned this but if the issue is visibility, it's unfortunate that the awards that were won by more diverse talent were not televised. I would have happily lost some of those lame Kevin Spacey impressions so we could hear their full speeches.

#77

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 1:59am

VintageSnarker: I agree. Plus, I would've preferred to see James Earl Jones give his own acceptance speech for Lifetime Achievement, rather than hear Spacey do his equally lame imitation of Jones.

#78

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 2:04am

To get back to Eva Noblezada and Jon Jon Briones ...

Awards are such a crapshoot. Nominations often made by a small group of people (usually all-white), so their tastes dictate ...

* Olivier Awards: Briones gets nominated, but not Noblezada.

* Drama League: Noblezada gets nominated, but not Briones.

* Drama Desk Awards: Briones gets nominated, but not Noblezada.

* Tony Awards: Noblezada gets nominated, but not Briones.

Only the Theatre World Awards recognized BOTH of them, & they gave prizes to each of them for their Broadway debuts. Kudos!

Updated On: 6/14/17 at 02:04 AM

#79

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 4:50am

VintageSnarker said: "Wayman_Wong said: ' Yes, she and Young lost Sunday night, but are Mimi Lien and Jane Greenwood (who finally won after 21 tries) chopped liver?

Upsets happen at awards. That's showbiz.

I think I mentioned this but if the issue is visibility, it's unfortunate that the awards that were won by more diverse talent were not televised. I would have happily lost some of those lame Kevin Spacey impressions so we could hear their full speeches.

"

I would have loved to see all the awards presented, too...but out of respect for the work, not because of representation. After all, it's not like they knew whether a man or woman (or person of color) would win when they decided what would be aired . (Obviously, they knew about Jones.)

The ratings aren't going to be worse by showing them.

If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.

#80

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 10:17am

theatreguy said: "This is kind of a weird rule that is commonly misunderstood. The authors of a Best Revival winner are not technically considered the winners of the award, only the producers are. HOWEVER, if/when the producers purchase additional awards (meaning the medallion mounted on the black base) to give to their co-producers/investors billed above the title, they are allowed to purchase awards for the authors as well.

August Wilson is officially a one-time Tony winner (for Fences) but it's very possible his family will have 3 Tony Awards (adding the revivals of Fences and Jitney) to display, assuming they and/or the producers wanted to pay for them."

Well, I was referring to the change in the rule regarding "classic" revivals a few years ago, in the wake of Hedwig's win. Shortly after that, the rules were changed so that writers (as well as producers) would receive a Tony for works that won in the revival categories if the show had never been Tony-eligible before. Since that's the case with Jitney, I think that Wilson is an official (posthumous) winner.

#81

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 11:27am

You mention GROUNDHOG DAY a being an example of diversity in casting, and I agree with you in part, but there is one casting choice in that show that bothers me. Why would a character billed as 'chubby man' be cast with a thin dancer in a fat suit? I've asked this question of several friends and there isn't an answer that I can support. 'Chubby' actors can perform that choreography as evidenced by othe GD cast members. 'Chubby' people can and are the recipient of sexual desire, so the brief moment in a montage where this actor appeared in his underwear isn't a valid excuse either.

It's difficult to offend me and I'm not offended by this casting choice per se, but it is troubling. I see strides every season as the theatre community begins to more fully embrace diverse casting, but body type is never a part of that conversation. Why is that?

#82

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 11:33am

FYI, Josh Groban wears a fat suit for ''The Great Comet,'' too.

#83

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 11:47am

undercoveractor2 said: "You mention GROUNDHOG DAY a being an example of diversity in casting, and I agree with you in part, but there is one casting choice in that show that bothers me. Why would a character billed as 'chubby man' be cast with a thin dancer in a fat suit? I've asked this question of several friends and there isn't an answer that I can support. 'Chubby' actors can perform that choreography as evidenced by othe GD cast members. 'Chubby' people can and are the recipient of sexual desire, so the brief moment in a montage where this actor appeared in his underwear isn't a valid excuse either.

It's difficult to offend me and I'm not offended by this casting choice per se, but it is troubling. I see strides every season as the theatre community begins to more fully embrace diverse casting, but body type is never a part of that conversation. Why is that?"

Not that I disagree with you, re: body types getting representation, but in the case of GHD, Michael Fatica, who plays Chubby Man and others, is the Assistant Dance Captain. Perhaps it was a case of the creatives wanting the actor for the show in that capacity, since he was in Matilda, and having to find a way to make him fit a role.

ETA - Re: Josh Groban. That is star-casting though, so I don't mind that he's wearing a fat suit. If they ignored other equally well known actors who are already the size they want Pierre to be, that would be a problem.

Updated On: 6/14/17 at 11:47 AM

#84

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 12:03pm

Obviously, time constraints prevent the Tonys from presenting all the awards on-air, but it's a shame that James Earl Jones and Baayork Lee didn't get all the visibility they deserve. They're terrific artists who also happen to be people of color. And if you haven't seen their speeches, Tonys.org has posted their Creative Arts section, hosted by Brian D'Arcy James and Jonathan Groff. ...

Meantime, can we at least get Book presented on-air again? The Tony telecast is centered on musicals, but the very artists who WRITE the dialogue and create their very structure, are missing from the show. That's a disrespectful and disgusting way to treat them.

http://www.tonyawards.com/en_US/multimedia/videos/index.html?category=creativeartsawards

Updated On: 6/14/17 at 12:03 PM

#85

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 1:50pm

I think the #tonyssowhite hashtag, or term, is remarkably unfair and inaccurate. Going off the top of my head, Tonys since 2010 have been won by Denzel Washington, Viola Davis, Courtney Vance, Sophie Okenodo, Audra McDonald (twice), Cicely Tyson, Billy Porter, Patina Miller, Nikki James, Cynthia Errivo, Leslie Odom, Renee Elise Goldsberry, Daveed Diggs -- in other words, quite a few African American actors. There may have been other winners; there were certainly other nominees. Crying exclusion is absurd, and implies a favoritism shown to the white nominees and winners that belittles their accomplishments.

Updated On: 6/14/17 at 01:50 PM

#86

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 2:55pm

If you read this thread, most of us agree that it's nothing to do with the Tony Awards. Most also agree that it has to do with fewer opportunities for artists of color and that it needs to change from the top: creatives and casting directors and producers.

Actors of color rarely have the opportunity to grow into their talents and finally land a role that will win them the Tony. How long has someone like Gavin Creel been considered a golden boy, finally receiving a Tony Award after three nominations and plenty of attention-grabbing roles? Also, Gavin's understudy is black, so there is no reason why any other principal in Helly, Dolly! can't be a person of color, but we have the principal cast that we have. This is not a slight, I'm just using the talented Gavin as an example. Outside of Audra McDonald, there's no real theatre superstar of color. Audra is a wild exception to the rule, having played against race for lots of her career and being awarded for it.

#87

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 3:01pm

"Outside of Audra McDonald, there's no real theatre superstar of color."

I think that's a bit hyperbolic, no? What about Brian Stokes Mitchell, James Earl Jones, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Cecily Tyson, LaChanze, Phylicia Rashad, Denzel Washington, Chita Rivera?

Updated On: 6/14/17 at 03:01 PM

#88

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 3:02pm

Also, bringing up he number of black artists who have won Tonys doesn't account for the severe lack of Asian/Pacific Islander and Hispanic artists up for these awards. Conversations about racial diversity shouldn't just be about black actors.

I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.

#89

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 3:23pm

I agree with you there, Wonderful Wizard. That void is inexplicable. But my main point, that the catchphrase #Tonyssowhite is invalid and inaccurate, still stands.

Updated On: 6/14/17 at 03:23 PM

#90

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 3:26pm

I agree with HeyMrMusic about the lack of opportunities. And wonderfulwizard11 is right: Diversity isn't just about black actors.

Speaking to the topic of Asian-Americans, I had a big bone to pick with Bartlett Sher's casting of ''The King and I.'' Of all the actors in the world to cast, he chose Ken Watanabe, who has never done a Broadway musical and whose first language is not English (and whom I found large unintelligible). Granted, he's an Oscar nominee, but surely no one was buying tickets to hear him sing. Besides, Sher had Kelli O'Hara, a 5-time Tony nominee, starring as Anna.

So why didn't Sher cast Jose Llana instead? Here's a leading man with a gorgeous voice, 6 Broadway credits, and a 20-year history with ''The King and I.'' (He played LunTha in the 1996 Broadway revival, opposite Donna Murphy and Lou Diamond Phillips.) And now you can see Llana heading the national tour, reaping rave reviews. He also played the King on Broadway after Watanabe left.

This ''King and I'' could've been finally Llana's best shot at a Tony NOMINATION after 2 decades on Broadway. And Llana wasn't the only Asian-American guy who could've opened the show: Hoon Lee and Daniel Dae Kim, who also succeeded Watanabe. (And I'll add Paolo Montalban.) Somehow, they're deemed good enough to replace or tour, but not good to be Tony-eligible? That's ridiculous.

Which is why the original ''Miss Saigon'' was such a big deal. A leading Asian/Eurasian role is rare, so to see that one opportunity go to a white actor was galling. To add insult to injury, the show claimed it made a worldwide search to find an Asian actor who could play the Engineer, but concluded no Asian male IN THE WORLD had the chops to do so. Only after Equity OK'd the white actor for Broadway, the show sheepishly admitted it had made no worldwide search for an Asian guy. And the producer has confirmed that Pryce was their 1st choice. No one else was ever considered.

Hey, it's their prerogative to cast whomever they want; it's their money. But they didn't need to slander the talents of Asian-American men who didn't even get to audition for the role.

Updated On: 6/14/17 at 03:26 PM

#91

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 3:33pm

undercoveractor2 said: "You mention GROUNDHOG DAY a being an example of diversity in casting, and I agree with you in part, but there is one casting choice in that show that bothers me. Why would a character billed as 'chubby man' be cast with a thin dancer in a fat suit? I've asked this question of several friends and there isn't an answer that I can support. 'Chubby' actors can perform that choreography as evidenced by othe GD cast members. 'Chubby' people can and are the recipient of sexual desire, so the brief moment in a montage where this actor appeared in his underwear isn't a valid excuse either.

It's difficult to offend me and I'm not offended by this casting choice per se, but it is troubling. I see strides every season as the theatre community begins to more fully embrace diverse casting, but body type is never a part of that conversation. Why is that?

I'm not sure it needs to be a part of the conversation. That is, it's certainly important and relevant but I haven't thought about the numbers enough to know if diverse body types are being well-represented. Side note, if you're interested, check out Bella at Playwrights Horizons. Off the top of my head from this season there's Amelie and Come From Away. I do think often the token heavy character is the token black female character but that's a whole other can of worms I don't want to unpack right now. I do think it's tough because, aside from older characters or somewhat stereotyped characters like the soul or gospel singing plus size black female character, shows often don't make a space for characters who aren't specifically written as being heavier. And actors who are booking different jobs tend to be fairly svelte, especially if you've got a big ensemble with a lot of dancers like Holiday Inn or Bandstand. Unless you're interested in showing different body types you don't have an incentive there to cast anyone but generically attractive slim people to dance around.

#92

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 4:08pm

But look at the reasoning on why Ken Watanabe was cast: he's an Oscar nominee and a recognizable name/face to people beyond Broadway. Now was he the draw they intended him to be? Probably not because The King and I kind of sells itself on its name alone, and if not, Kelli O'Hara draws in the theatre crowd. There are no mainstream Asian stars in the US, certainly no male star that would be considered A-list. Yes, it's a shame they did not cast Jose Llana from the start (his chemistry with Kelli was off the charts), but this is the current state of Broadway and the opportunity for actors of color. Jose, who has been working in theatre in respectable roles for over 20 years, will have to wait for another shot at an award-worthy role, whenever that will come.

#93

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 4:52pm

Gee, I don't think Ken Watanabe is that recognizable at all. He had one Oscar nomination for ''The Last Samurai'' (2003). If you showed his picture to folks at the TKTS booth, I'll bet hardly anyone could identify him. In the case of ''The King and I,'' Kelli O'Hara was the draw, 'cuz the box office seemed to collapse shortly after she left. I'm sure Lincoln Center expected this revival to run longer.

You don't get Asian-American male stars unless they're cast in star-making roles. Lea Salonga was an unknown until she was cast as Kim and that opportunity led to her Tony. And the role of the Engineer could've done the same thing for some unknown Asian-American male actor. (Alas, it didn't do the trick for Briones.)

Meantime, I believe Salonga is the only Asian who's won a Tony for a leading role. No Asian male has ever won a leading Tony. And only 3 have ever been nominated, and two of them were for ''The King and I.'' I hope we don't have to wait until the NEXT Broadway revival of ''The King and I'' for the next Asian guy to be Tony-nominated.

Updated On: 6/14/17 at 04:52 PM

#94

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 4:59pm

I'm agreeing with you, Wayman. I think the casting was a missed opportunity and Ken isn't the draw they thought he could be. But he did bring the cachet of being an Oscar nominee (they were selling his movies at the merch stand).

Yes, Lea Salonga and Ruthie Ann Miles are the only Asian actresses to win Tony Awards.

#95

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 5:03pm

I believe B.D. Wong is the only Asian male to have won a Tony: as Featured in ''M. Butterfly.'' I wonder who they'll cast in the revival!

Updated On: 6/14/17 at 05:03 PM

#96

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 5:15pm

The relatively quiet influence of Asian-American actors in the West is something I've always found puzzling (no King and I pun intended). I even wrote a blog post once about my favorite Asian-American actors struggled to find five.

As an aside, I wish Takarazuka would do another musical in Japanese here. Chicago was so great...

https://newplayexchange.org/users/99643/amanda-delalla

#97

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 5:18pm

I know Devin Ilaw has played it regionally. Wonder if he'd be considered after Brantley's positive review and overall standout performance in Miss Saigon. I hope he's on the rise; he's very talented.

#98

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 5:30pm

Wayman_Wong said: "Gee, I don't think Ken Watanabe is that recognizable at all. He had one Oscar nomination for ''The Last Samurai'' (2003). If you showed his picture to folks at the TKTS booth, I'll bet hardly anyone could identify him. In the case of ''The King and I,'' Kelli O'Hara was the draw, 'cuz the box office seemed to collapse shortly after she left. I'm sure Lincoln Center expected this revival to run longer."

I have to disagree. Unless they were going to get Jackie Chan or Donnie Yen, I'm not sure what Asian or Asian American movie star they were going to find to be a box office draw. (Granted, I don't know who's popular in K-dramas or if there was someone they could have brought over from the musical theater community in another country). Ken Watanabe may not have a ton of big starring roles in the US but he's in a lot of movies. Memoirs of a Geisha, Inception, Godzilla, etc. I don't think he was as big a draw as they wanted but it's unfair to say Kelli was the only draw. Once he left there were a fair number of months before Marin took over when they weren't selling out the house. Also, I thought he was good in the role.

#99

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 6:55pm

VintageSnarker, we'll have to agree to disagree. I found Watanabe largely incomprehensible. It was doubly disappointing because there were Asian-American leading men with Broadway experience who could've aced it, and received their overdue Tony nomination.

#100

#TonysSoWhite ?

Posted: 6/14/17 at 10:44pm

Shows aren't cast according to who is most overdue for a Tony nomination, nor should they be. If you didn't like Watanabe, fine, but to say Jose Llana or Hoon Lee should have played the role first just so they could have gotten a Tony nom is kind of silly (especially since Watanabe did get a nomination).

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