Was Next To Normal A Fluke?- Page 2

[JBroadway]

Posted: 6/19/20 at 7:29pm

Ravenclaw said: "I also want to add that it really bothers me when a successful artist has a failure (or something less successful than their previous work) and then everyone rushes to redefine their opinion of the artist's previous work. The fact that13 Reasons Whyis a bad show doesn't mean that Yorkey's book and lyrics ofNext to Normalare great accidentally. You see this happen all the time in theatre--when Spidermanwas on Broadway, suddenly everyone who had been extolling Julie Taymour's genius started saying thatLion Kingwas only successful because of the producers who reigned in her crazy sensibilities. When Ben Platt posts a bad self-tape audition on twitter, people who loved his performance inDear Evan Hansensay he wasn't actually that great, or he's a one-trick pony. When Jack O'Brien directs a couple of bad revivals while in his late 70s, people start saying that his work on Hairspray was only good because of Jerry Mitchell or his work on Stoppard plays was only good because the texts survived bad direction. I remember a thread here about a year ago about the Glenda Jackson King Lear in which people claimed that Sam Gold didn't actually direct Fun Home, that most of the work was done by a "ghost director" who saved the show. I don't know why people find it so hard to believe that good artists can do bad work. I get the principle that "you're only as good as your last show," but the rewriting of memory is a pervasive problem. The beauty ofA Streetcar Named Desireis not invalidated by the latter half of Tennessee Williams's career--he was a genius writer who wrote many great plays and many atrocious plays. I had a teacher who used to point out that in baseball, a batting average of .300 is considered amazing."

 

I agree with every word of your post, including the specific examples you gave. Artists shouldn't judged by failing on the 2nd major project. But the 3rd? The 4th? The 5th? The 6th? At a certain point, you start to see a pattern. 

[Ledaero]

Posted: 6/20/20 at 5:09am

I'm going to add a bit of a dissenting voice into this thread, I don't think Next To Normal is all that great either. Like most people, I was floored by it when it first came out. The cast album was electric and the original production was wonderful. But I've now seen 5-10 productions of it through regional, community, and university theatre, and every time I watch it I just find it exponentially more flawed. Especially Diana's songs. The only stuff that really holds up for me is the Natalie/Henry material. I think the show has a lot of effectiveness in its first viewing when the plot isn't revealed yet, but the whole show feels shallow to me every time I revisit it. 

The plot and character development meander, and the songs sit in a weird place where it grooves like pop/rock but the lyrics are so grounded in drama/scene work that it feels like uncanny valley, to borrow a term from film. It's not really a scene, but it's not a concert performance either. It almost feels like I'm watching the characters sing along to the songs, particularly in pieces like "You Don't Know" and "I'm Alive" where the refrain is so non-dramatic. Pick drama or pick groove, but this weird middle ground is where Kitt lives in so often and I think it's just the worst. His arrangements for American Idiot fall into the same trap, where the songs lose the punk rock style that was core to their groove but they also aren't committed to being dramatic pieces either. He writes arrangements that feel like false attempts at understanding genre and style of popular music, and I slightly blame him for Broadway/jukeboxes thinking they understand pop/rock/rap/etc when really the songs are miles away from the authentic sound. I think Malloy, Lin, and Sheik are really the only mainstream composers out there right now who really understand popular music and how to implement it effectively in musical theatre (though sounds like Sheik is already becoming a debate in this thread).

I don't think Next to Normal was a fluke, I just think Kitt's whole canon has been mediocre at best, dumpster trash at worst. I think he's a good music supervisor, his work on Spongebob was great. His compositions are just not for me.

Updated On: 6/20/20 at 05:09 AM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 6/20/20 at 1:57pm

Ravenclaw said: "I also want to add that it really bothers me when a successful artist has a failure (or something less successful than their previous work) and then everyone rushes to redefine their opinion of the artist's previous work."

I think it is complicated. No, someone shouldn't be written off for a bad show. (See: Me continuing to see Duncan Sheik shows) But I think looking at an artist's entire body of work reveals things that do affect your opinion of their earlier work. The great show doesn't stop being great but maybe you recognize that it was a successful pastiche and the composer isn't really capable of writing more original music or copying a different style. Maybe you figure out that someone is a bit of a culture vulture and that kind of appropriation doesn't work as a concept for every show. I do think there's a temptation to give all the credit to another person on the creative team or a performer for the good show when it's more that all the pieces were in place for the good show to be successful. It was a successful collaboration for that material at that time. And sometimes that won't happen again even if you reassemble the same creative team. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 6/20/20 at 2:02pm

My first thought was that it would not be the first time, them I reflected on the fact that they are still young.  I think it is premature to reach any such conclusions.

[Broadway_Boy]

Posted: 6/23/20 at 10:47am

I saw the following shows all live and hated next to normal and loved if/then. I liked freaky Friday, though it it’s obviously not of the same quality but I like many of the songs. I listen to if/then and freaky Friday quite frequently and never next to normal, though I do love “superboy and the invisible girl.” I wouldn’t say next to normal was a fluke whatsoever. They’re catering to different audiences.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/23/20 at 11:30am

Honestly, I feel that way about David Yazbek and The Band's Visit. I haven't liked any of his other scores.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 6/23/20 at 12:06pm

SporkGoddess said: "Honestly, I feel that way about David Yazbek and The Band's Visit. I haven't liked any of his other scores."

It's funny you say this, because I was thinking about how I should listen to Yazbek's other scores. I only really have listened to Dirty Rotten Scoundrels once, and the others only a song here and there. Been wondering/hoping I don't get disappointed! 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 6/23/20 at 12:35pm

Don’t sleep on “The Full Monty!” Some great Yazbeck songs!

[JBroadway]

Posted: 6/23/20 at 1:37pm

I enjoy some of Yazbek's other work, but in a very different way than I enjoy Band's Visit. I think Band's Visit is by far his most sophisticated score, with a lot of deep beauty to it. Most of his other scores are for light comedies, and the style reflects that. I do think Band's Visit was kind of a fluke for him, but I don't mean that to imply that his other work is bad, just that it's very different. You almost wouldn't guess that Band's Visit was written by the same person as his other shows, though I think you can hear some similarities, particularly in the kinds of rhythms that he tends to favor. 

Dirty Rotten Scoundrels is probably my favorite outside of Band's Visit, while Tootsie is definitely my least favorite. Plus I think "Model Behavior" from Women on the Verge is one of the greatest comedy numbers written for musical theatre this century. 

[Ledaero]

Posted: 6/24/20 at 2:18am

JBroadway said: "I enjoy some of Yazbek's other work, but in a very different way than I enjoy Band's Visit. I think Band's Visit is by far his most sophisticated score, with a lot of deep beauty to it. Most of his other scores are for light comedies, and the style reflects that. I do think Band's Visit was kind of a fluke for him, but I don't mean that to imply that his other work is bad, just that it's very different.You almost wouldn't guess that Band's Visit was written by the same person as his other shows, though I think you can hear somesimilarities, particularly in the kinds of rhythms that he tends to favor.
 

I don't think The Band's Visit was a fluke for Yazbek, especially in the same way we're discussing Kitt's body. Yazbek has always been a very smart writer, both in his lyrics and music. Songs like "Great Big Stuff"  and "Man" are so understated in how clever and well-composed they are. He's just done rather low-brow comedy shows where the dramatic depth wasn't called for. But even in Full Monty, there's gorgeous songs like "Breeze Off The River." The Band's Visit was just his first show that really called for a lot of depth, and I agree that I think it's his most sophisticated and beautiful score. But I'm not surprised about it. 

 

[gypsy101]

Posted: 6/24/20 at 5:55am

fashionguru_23 said: "I love the score of "Bring It On", and was it ever confirmed who wrote what, other than some of the obvious?"

according to my itunes which i may have updated with the piano conductor score’s info, Tom Kitt and Amanda Green wrote Tryouts, Something Isn’t Right Here, Better, It Ain’t No Thing, Enjoy the Trip, Killer Instinct, Legendary and Eva’s Rant. Lin-Manuel wrote Do Your Own Thing, We Ain’t No Cheerleaders, It’s All Happening and Cross the Line. The three writers collaborated on What I Was Born to Do, One Perfect Moment, Friday Night Jackson, Bring It On, We’re Not Done and I Got You. this should mostly be correct i believe!

edit: i looked in the vocal score, of the songs not recorded (mostly incidentals? i’ve never seen the show) Lin also wrote The Day Goes By, Kitt and Green wrote Happy Kitties, Cheer Camp, In the Bag, Phone Calls, Bridget+Twig, What Was I Thinking and Campbell’s In

Updated On: 6/24/20 at 05:55 AM

[Pashacar]

Posted: 6/24/20 at 12:49pm

I agree with nearly all of what's been said here re: Kitt & Yorkey (though I still love N2N in part thanks to Cromer).

The interesting thing about this question being posed now is that we were supposed to have just seen THE VISITOR, which I felt was the piece that would ultimately tip the scale one way or another; if that turned out weak, it would cement them in my head as one-hit wonders, and vice versa. Hopefully we'll get a chance to see it sooner or later.

(Also, I agree heartily w the Shiek shade. Do not understand how he keeps getting theater work at this point.)