#51
Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:41am
dupe
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Updated On: 9/16/13 at 11:41 AM
What is so bad about bootlegs? — Page 3
#52
Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:47am
Bootlegs are the epitome of hypocrisy. They'll decry bootlegs of modern shows, but give them a bootleg of A Chorus Line or Sweeney Todd and they'll salivate. Patti LuPone will decry bootlegs and then allow their use in a documentary about her. You have countless actors, actresses, writers, producers, & composers who have bootlegs of their shows without the proper authorization.
No, it's not a right, but it is something that everyone in every part of the system is guilty of partaking in.
No, it's not a right, but it is something that everyone in every part of the system is guilty of partaking in.
#53
Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:48am
But theater has survived for a very long time without bootlegs. And it will continue to survive should bootlegs somehow magically disappear.
But...Blah blah Disney! Blah blah jukebox musicals! Blah blah movie adaptations! BLAH BLAH ORIGINALITY!!
But...Blah blah Disney! Blah blah jukebox musicals! Blah blah movie adaptations! BLAH BLAH ORIGINALITY!!
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#54
Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:52am
My life would still be full without bootlegs, they are just a little sprinkled sugar on top.
As for your fascination with the upside down world where you think that others think that artists who don't make recordings possible are bad guys etc. - I don't think most theater lovers who enjoy a good bootleg have such a cartoon perspective on reality, or analyze the situation so intensely.
Can't wait for my bootleg of Bullets Over Broadway in the not so distant future.
EDIT: Oh, and I have a bootleg of that cross nailing. It will cost you ten bucks. Now the picture is grainy, there's some heads in the way, but the sound is AWESOME.
As for your fascination with the upside down world where you think that others think that artists who don't make recordings possible are bad guys etc. - I don't think most theater lovers who enjoy a good bootleg have such a cartoon perspective on reality, or analyze the situation so intensely.
Can't wait for my bootleg of Bullets Over Broadway in the not so distant future.
EDIT: Oh, and I have a bootleg of that cross nailing. It will cost you ten bucks. Now the picture is grainy, there's some heads in the way, but the sound is AWESOME.
Updated On: 9/16/13 at 11:52 AM
#55
Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:57am
I think we can all agree that anyone who makes money off a bootleg should be publicly beheaded on the steps of the TKTS booth but people who spread them around like manure should declared national heroes and given special Kennedy Center Honors for the preservation efforts.
Back in the days of VHS copies, there were collectors who met, anonymously, in coffee shops, with shopping bags filled with VHS tapes of the desired boots. No cash was exchanged: All that was required was that you would supply the bootlegger with something he or she didn't have or, at the very least, an equal number of blank tapes.
But cash was forbidden. Just in case.
I mean, I've heard STORIES of trades like that being conducted...
Back in the days of VHS copies, there were collectors who met, anonymously, in coffee shops, with shopping bags filled with VHS tapes of the desired boots. No cash was exchanged: All that was required was that you would supply the bootlegger with something he or she didn't have or, at the very least, an equal number of blank tapes.
But cash was forbidden. Just in case.
I mean, I've heard STORIES of trades like that being conducted...
#56
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:00pm
I actually prefer sending someone 10 bucks rather than having to supply blank dvd's or self addressed stamped packaging, and I never have anything they don't already have to trade.
#57
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:03pm
I've told this story here before...so forgive me for repeating myself.
One show that was 'bootlegged' ended up moving to Broadway with a whole new cast. I sat in a theater and watched other actors perform surprisingly similar choreography (though the show had a new choreographer) and actors give some shockingly similar line readings. To say that that particular experience in my life was awful would be an understatement.
At the same time, I've watched a clip or two from bootlegs that I've enjoyed immensely. It's a sticky situation. And just a little bit of self-awareness from people who are just so proud of their bootleg collections would go a long way in convincing others that they are not actually Assholes.
One show that was 'bootlegged' ended up moving to Broadway with a whole new cast. I sat in a theater and watched other actors perform surprisingly similar choreography (though the show had a new choreographer) and actors give some shockingly similar line readings. To say that that particular experience in my life was awful would be an understatement.
At the same time, I've watched a clip or two from bootlegs that I've enjoyed immensely. It's a sticky situation. And just a little bit of self-awareness from people who are just so proud of their bootleg collections would go a long way in convincing others that they are not actually Assholes.
#58
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:05pm
PJ, sounds suspiciously similar to a very popular website that rhymes with fiano miles. The difference being it isn't bootlegs of course.
I'm not a huge fan of bootlegs but do agree that as long as one is not profiting, it's okay.
I'm not a huge fan of bootlegs but do agree that as long as one is not profiting, it's okay.
#59
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:08pm
...giggle...
But I am actually an asshole, so the trying to convince otherwise would be insincere.
But I am actually an asshole, so the trying to convince otherwise would be insincere.
#60
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:10pm
^ Is there new information in there somewhere? Cause otherwise it's just a waste of a post.
#61
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:10pm
One show that was 'bootlegged' ended up moving to Broadway with a whole new cast. I sat in a theater and watched other actors perform surprisingly similar choreography (though the show had a new choreographer) and actors give some shockingly similar line readings. To say that that particular experience in my life was awful would be an understatement.
And they can just as easily do that with a Lincoln Center recording, which some did which is why it's more locked down now. They can base their vocals off of the cast recordings, which several do. They can mimic professionally filmed performances, which they do. My old high school's production of Legally Blonde was basically translated from the MTV performance.
You're never going to be able to stop people from trying to mimic something because that happens without bootlegs. You can't blame the bootleg for a ****ty production team who sat through rehearsals and not only allow it, but encourage to lift right from the bootleg.
And they can just as easily do that with a Lincoln Center recording, which some did which is why it's more locked down now. They can base their vocals off of the cast recordings, which several do. They can mimic professionally filmed performances, which they do. My old high school's production of Legally Blonde was basically translated from the MTV performance.
You're never going to be able to stop people from trying to mimic something because that happens without bootlegs. You can't blame the bootleg for a ****ty production team who sat through rehearsals and not only allow it, but encourage to lift right from the bootleg.
Updated On: 9/16/13 at 12:10 PM
#62
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:12pm
Your high school's production of Legally Blonde didn't win three Tonys. This show did. So please...just stop.
#63
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:13pm
"I don't think most theater lovers who enjoy a good bootleg have such a cartoon perspective on reality, or analyze the situation so intensely." [emphasis mine]
Now THAT, my fellow Americans, is profoundly American.
Now THAT, my fellow Americans, is profoundly American.
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#64
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:16pm
Your high school's production of Legally Blonde didn't win three Tonys. This show did. So please...just stop.
So it was the bootleg's fault? Not the cast? Not the production crew? Not AEA? Not the choreographer's union? Not the Tony committee who awarded them TONYS for fraudulent work? Nobody ever brought this up to the choreographer whose work was ripped off? It's the fault of a bootleg?
So it was the bootleg's fault? Not the cast? Not the production crew? Not AEA? Not the choreographer's union? Not the Tony committee who awarded them TONYS for fraudulent work? Nobody ever brought this up to the choreographer whose work was ripped off? It's the fault of a bootleg?
#65
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:16pm
Well, I've always considered myself a Patriot....
#66
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:22pm
TheatreFan4...is that actually a serious response? Seriously?
#67
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:23pm
^^Robbie did you see the new West End artwork? It looks like she's reaching up to catch dripping pee.
The issue for me is that it's something that's not available to buy legally. I would if I could. I'd gladly pay $20 to compensate the actors, creatives and producers if I could have a recording of a show I didn't get to see, or a certain actor who I became a fan of after the fact. Or even like a pay-per-view event and paying to livestream tonight's performance of a currently running show. Unfortunately Equity's rules are about 3 decades behind the times regarding compensation, so it's prohibitively expensive to do it legally, and we're left the options of either missing out completely or bootlegs.
The issue for me is that it's something that's not available to buy legally. I would if I could. I'd gladly pay $20 to compensate the actors, creatives and producers if I could have a recording of a show I didn't get to see, or a certain actor who I became a fan of after the fact. Or even like a pay-per-view event and paying to livestream tonight's performance of a currently running show. Unfortunately Equity's rules are about 3 decades behind the times regarding compensation, so it's prohibitively expensive to do it legally, and we're left the options of either missing out completely or bootlegs.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
Updated On: 9/16/13 at 12:23 PM
#68
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:25pm
Yes it is because I don't really see that because a bootleg of a show existed and probably watched that a production was allowed to pretty much duplicate it verbatim on stage. Why was nothing done about it? Was the Tony committee even made aware? Again, Lincoln Center recordings exist. People have lifted from them directly.
#69
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:27pm
"But to come here and justify your own shady behavior by insulting others who have a different experience with bootlegs? If you were capable of a modicum of shame, I'd say hang your head. But you're not, so piss off.
I've never sold a bootleg in my life, so up yours, Miss Defensive. That was a cheap, unwarranted and ugly piece of nastiness, and if anyone should hang their head, I'd say it's you.
And yes, it's uber-American to say "If I can't make money off it, I'd rather it died and faded from anyone's view. No one can watch my work without paying."
I've never sold a bootleg in my life, so up yours, Miss Defensive. That was a cheap, unwarranted and ugly piece of nastiness, and if anyone should hang their head, I'd say it's you.
And yes, it's uber-American to say "If I can't make money off it, I'd rather it died and faded from anyone's view. No one can watch my work without paying."
Updated On: 9/16/13 at 12:27 PM
#70
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:27pm
"Again, Lincoln Center recordings exist. People have lifted from them directly."
Except that you're failing to mention the strict rules & stipulations that the LCT Archive puts in place to try and regulate the potential plagiarism.... The same cannot be said for bootlegs circulating for public consumption.
Except that you're failing to mention the strict rules & stipulations that the LCT Archive puts in place to try and regulate the potential plagiarism.... The same cannot be said for bootlegs circulating for public consumption.
Updated On: 9/16/13 at 12:27 PM
#71
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:30pm
Except that you're failing to mention the various rules, stipulations, etc., that the LCT Archive puts in place to try and regulate the potential of plagiarism.... The same cannot be said for bootlegs circulating for public consumption.
How about the videos of Memphis, Phantom, Cats, Legally Blonde, Oklahoma, Rent, Sweeney Todd, and countless other released videos out there?
How about the videos of Memphis, Phantom, Cats, Legally Blonde, Oklahoma, Rent, Sweeney Todd, and countless other released videos out there?
#72
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:32pm
As a member of Equity, I do not in any way disagree with what you've said. There are many, many ways in which Equity needs to modernize. Digital marketing for showcases (and the whole showcase code) needs a damn overhaul. And I know there are many actors out there grateful for captured performances. I'm grateful that a few of my performances have been taped and shared (though with my permission, of course). It's not hard and fast. And I get wanting to see things you've missed. I appreciate people who recognize that it's at least a little questionable. It just astounds me when so many people don't even begin to grapple with the idea that bootlegging is actually stealing someone else's work. And then to charge for it? That makes me nuts.
OH...and yes! I just saw the artwork for it the London production. F-ing hilarious! The interesting thing about the show was that the original Fringe production which I was in wasn't nearly as self-referential as the Broadway production. There were so many 'homages' to specific Broadway musicals that I fear the great book and score will always be saddled with that. If I do, in fact, go back and get my MFA, my thesis will be a production that jettisons all specific Broadway references and features a design based on Edward Gorey drawings. But that's a different topic!
OH...and yes! I just saw the artwork for it the London production. F-ing hilarious! The interesting thing about the show was that the original Fringe production which I was in wasn't nearly as self-referential as the Broadway production. There were so many 'homages' to specific Broadway musicals that I fear the great book and score will always be saddled with that. If I do, in fact, go back and get my MFA, my thesis will be a production that jettisons all specific Broadway references and features a design based on Edward Gorey drawings. But that's a different topic!
#73
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:32pm
You can't keep changing the topic with something like "well what about this?!" to try and deflect valid points that refute your general argument. You mentioned the LCT Archive and I addressed that.
#74
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:34pm
Theater is innately ephemeral and that is one of its most appealing and unique aspects compared to some other art forms.
I like old bootlegs because they are a connection to the past; a way to archive and study the history of an artform that I love. Maybe it's wrong, but I don't want to see shows/scores slip away into the empty void of lost music. I want to preserve the history of the musical.
Personally I'd much rather have an audio than a video of a show. I just want to save scores, and perhaps a few performances like Merman's final Hello, Dolly!, etc.
I do feel bad that the artists aren't getting their full financial due, but the alternative of having these shows lost forever seems worse to me. Lord knows I buy every cast album that I can, but when that avenue fails me, I fall back on the bootleg.
I like old bootlegs because they are a connection to the past; a way to archive and study the history of an artform that I love. Maybe it's wrong, but I don't want to see shows/scores slip away into the empty void of lost music. I want to preserve the history of the musical.
Personally I'd much rather have an audio than a video of a show. I just want to save scores, and perhaps a few performances like Merman's final Hello, Dolly!, etc.
I do feel bad that the artists aren't getting their full financial due, but the alternative of having these shows lost forever seems worse to me. Lord knows I buy every cast album that I can, but when that avenue fails me, I fall back on the bootleg.
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
#75
Posted: 9/16/13 at 12:34pm
Topic? Are we not talking about productions being based on videos of the show? I'm pretty sure these are fall into the realm of that topic.
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