What is so bad about bootlegs?- Page 2

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/15/13 at 7:54pm

"this is one of the dumbest and most clueless threads I've read in a long time.

Namo, that went right over their heads."

Aw Jane, bless your heart. Nothing went over anyone's head, we just chose to ignore something stupid (bootlegging, hahahahahaa prohibition) because it has nothing to do with the thread. If you think the thread is clueless and dumb, then don't comment on it. Easy enough.

I have been looking for a bootleg copy of Next To Normal since I have even never seen it. Bootlegs are awesome except for weirdos who want like 50 dollars for them.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/15/13 at 8:18pm

"If you think the thread is clueless and dumb, then don't comment on it. "

Why not, newbie? How else can I mention how dumb it is?

You so silly.

Updated On: 9/15/13 at 08:18 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 9/15/13 at 8:24pm

"You so silly."

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 9/15/13 at 8:31pm

"I know the obvious answer is that bootlegs can distract from the ticket sales, but if I see a good recording of a show, and enjoy the show, it only encourages me to actually see the show."

My question to the OP is, has this actually translated to a ticket sale for you?

[JBroadway]

Posted: 9/15/13 at 8:48pm

bootlegs are great exposure for actors in my opinion. I can think of several examples of actors with whom I was not familiar until I heard/saw them in various bootlegs. If I had the opportunity to see some of these actors in concert or something, I WOULD buy a ticket to see them live. That's at least one ticket that would not have been sold if it weren't for those bootlegs.

In regards to the idea of bootlegs taking away from tickets sales, I feel like the mindset of those in the bootlegging world is not "I'm going to get a bootleg so I don't have to pay to see the show." It's about seeing shows you wouldn't otherwise be able to see.

[Rabekriegerin]

Posted: 9/15/13 at 9:00pm

I can't answer for the OP, but it has certainly translated into ticket sales for me.

I don't live far from NYC. Day trip distance. My grandparents have a subscription of some kind to the Goodspeed, as well, and from time to time they would treat me to a show, which I always loved, as a cultural outing and a chance to spend time with them. However, the only Broadway show I'd seen was Phantom - of which I was, and remain, very fond.

Skip forward to '04 and my college days. I'm poking around on youtube when I find some footage of the original Phantom cast! (Homework productivity? plummeted. You win some, you lose some.) I was, however, also taking ye olde German 101 at the time. One link leads to another, and before you know it, I'm watching clips of das Phantom der Oper - with Thomas Borchert, for the interested, whom I still consider brilliant in the role.

Because of my love of Phantom, and that I was taking German, suddenly my German studies and the side of me that appreciated good musical theater crossed. My German vocabulary climbed, as well as my interest in the language, and along with it, I developed a sudden love of German theater. Before I knew it, I owned the cast recordings of Elisabeth and Mozart!, Tanz, Dracula (Graz) and the Hamburg Phantom cast, and it only grew from there...

The summer after graduation, I went on my 'I am done with college, let me visit Europe' adventure. I was determined to see a show in German. (It ended up being Rudolf in Vienna, because I was such a fan of Uwe Kroeger.) Sitting in that theater, I fell desperately in love with that world all over again. When I returned back from Europe, I put a trip down to NYC right on top of my list.

Since that day, I've brought friends and family to dozens of shows in NYC (and local Hartford tours) across the years. I have acquired towering collection of cast recordings, playbills, anniversary concerts, and other theater memorabilia from those times. Heck, I even made it back out to Germany and Austria to catch a handful more delightful shows in the place that kicked my love into high gear. (This time, I brought the rest of my family with me.) I cannot give an accurate accounting for the amount of money we as a unit have turned in to the theater community, but I know it numbers in the thousands of dollars. This does not include the tourism from our visits overseas - I would not have gone to Vienna had that show not been playing there, and frankly, I fell in love with the place. I can trace my (our) return, and my plans on going back again, to that initial visit.

All because a few Phantom bootleg clips on youtube led to a few german clips on youtube led to...

You get the idea.

I won't argue that every case is this way; it isn't. I won't argue that no one tries to make an illicit profit off these bootlegs; there are those that do. But to the question 'do boots actually turn into ticket sales? do they really prompt folks to give to the theater world?' the answer is a tremendous and resounding YES.

I'm here because of them. And thank God for that. This is too rich and moving a world to miss, and my life would be the less for it if I had.

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 9/15/13 at 9:20pm

As a poor person who lives in bumfart nowhere, thank god for bootlegs.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/15/13 at 9:21pm

I'll never forget opium. Thank goodness for those who smuggled it to me or I never would have had the experiences I had with it. It is definitely not a bad thing.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 9/15/13 at 9:32pm

I don't have many bootlegs from modern shows, but I have a large collection of older shows, and they serve an important purpose in documenting and archiving Broadway history.

Unfortunately we don't have cast recordings for Georgy or Into the Light or Wind in the Willows. Bootlegs are a necessary evil to preserve these scores and performances.

I would have no need for my Anyone Can Whistle audio from Encores if they would have made a recording. It would gladly have forked over the $15.99 for it.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/15/13 at 10:15pm

I have no way of taking a poll, but I seriously doubt that those who will sit through a poor-quality bootleg (and let's face it: most of them are very poor quality) will then fail to attend a live production if they can.

On the contrary, I think many viewers of bootlegs are people like me, who don't have the funds to travel to NYC regularly. For us, bootlegs are our only access to many productions, old and new.

I do understand that producers, directors and often actors dislike the poor quality of bootlegs and hate to think of those videos representing their work. But I think those of us who watch bootlegs understand that what we are seeing is merely a poor copy of the actual show.

***

As for the theft issue, if you watch a bootleg instead of buying a ticket to the life show, then, yes, you are stealing from the production. But if you watch a bootleg of a production you have no way of seeing (because it's old, too far away, too expensive, etc.), then who is losing money?



Updated On: 9/16/13 at 10:15 PM

[D2]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 8:36am

"...then who is losing money?"

The authors. Or their estate. That's who.

[newintown]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 10:35am

As usual, Whizzer is one of the few people with a cogent remark to make.

The point to a bootleg is not to watch the show over and over 'cause you just love it; it's a record of a specific, vanished production that will never be seen again.

If you don't have access to the Lincoln Center archives, how else can you experience the original Follies? How can you really know how bad the Broadway production of Carrie was?

Theatre, unlike movies or TV, is an ephemeral art; just because the show itself is licensed and can have future productions, each individual production is a creation unto itself. Curiosity about those specific creations is not a bad thing, and here's the financial argument - nobody is going to lose any money just because someone is watching a bootleg of Annie 2, simply because it's not a revenue-generator in any way.

Of course, why anyone would want to watch an amateur bootleg of a currently-and-long-running production is beyond me.

Updated On: 9/16/13 at 10:35 AM

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 10:37am

I've had one or two performances of mine bootlegged (why? I have no idea...they weren't major shows). It's bothersome on two levels. One...the idea that someone else is profiting off your own work is loathsome. Two...if I had a cold and was struggling through a show one night, then no...I don't want anyone to have a record of that. I have actor friends who feel differently. And yes...I can be hypocritical as well, cause I love that I can see Kelly Bishop recreate her Sheila in the CHORUS LINE gala. But I still feel dirty about it.

[newintown]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 10:50am

This idea is utterly and perfectly American - "There's no way I'll make an additional cent from this closed production, but I'll be furious if anyone else gets $10 for it!"

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 10:53am

I do hate bootlegs for profits. I have never made a bootleg myself, but I would never charge anyone for one in my collection and I would never pay for one in return.

I take a Dolly Levi approach to bootlegs: they should be spread around like manure, bringing joy and knowledge to as many listeners as possible. It shouldn't be about making money. Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone knew the score to Chu Chem?

newintown- I'm with you on the modern shows. I don't get wanting a bootleg of Wicked or Phantom. I still have to hold onto my audios of In My Life, Cry-Baby and Lestat, but that's just because proper cast recordings weren't released.

I'm sure it would be a mess working out the rights and royalties, but wouldn't it be great if someone was legally able to clean up a Follies OBC soundboard and officially sell it? They do it with opera recordings all the time.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 10:57am

Are you F*CKing serious? THAT is what's perfectly American? Not the 'Whaaa-whaaaa-whaaaa...I didn't get to see it, but I deserve to cause I said so, so I will watch whatever bootlegs I can get my hands on' attitude being espoused here?

It happens. We deal with it. And in the grand scheme of things, it's certainly not something I'm going to lose sleep over. But to come here and justify your own shady behavior by insulting others who have a different experience with bootlegs? If you were capable of a modicum of shame, I'd say hang your head. But you're not, so piss off.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:25am

^^^ Absolutely.

And law and order Roxy thinks the people who hold a camera for two hours are heroes. I am just sitting here shaking my head.

[logan2]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:26am

Thank God for bootlegs. I live in a state far away from New York and never had the money to travel to see a show. Traveling and accommodations are expensive enough without factoring in the high price of a show.

How is my buying a bootleg of a show from 10 to 30 years ago hurting that production, or it's composers or producers? It's not like someone is losing money every time I watch my bootleg of The Rink, Chess, or Nick $ Nora.

I would love to not pay for my bootlegs, but have only found people who charge for them or want a trade. I never have anything to trade that they don't already have.

I also buy bootlegs of shows that are much more recent, sometimes when they are still playing or have just closed. It's the only way I will ever get to see them - I am usually interested in shows that don't have a chance in hell of touring.

If it's wrong, then I don't want to be right.

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:29am

Bootlegs+Time= An archive

Bootlegs are a staple of the theatre community and producers can frown on it all they want, but 15 years down the road when the show is gone they are only record of a specific performance. Len Cariou in Sweeney Todd, Ethel Merman in Gypsy. They're not meant to be a replacement for anything, only a stamp of history. Like people won't be worshiping a Follies bootleg with Bernadette. I do have an issue with selling them for profit, that is sleazy. It turns what should be a community assisting others into a seedy black market. There is NO reason you should be charging for an audio. Not ONE. They are so incredibly easy to make and require no extra equipment for most.

I've recorded shows before and I give them right out to the community because that's what should be done or at the very MOST trading. Nothing monetary is exchanged.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:29am

Maybe if everybody could send some money to the copyright holders?

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:31am

Maybe if everybody could send some money to the copyright holders?

If they want to make them available, I'd be more than happy to pay for a soundboard recording from a performance.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:36am

You seem to have missed my point. This isn't about making things available, since there are "heroes" making illegal recordings, maybe people who buy/trade/watch/listen to them could send some money to the copyright holders as well as some residuals for the artists who created the show that was illegally recorded.

[logan2]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:37am

Just to be clear, I was talking about video bootlegs. I'm not that interested in audio recordings unless the show was never recorded like Rachael Lily Rosenbloom or Say Hello to Harvey.

I would KILL for VIDEO of Rosenbloom.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:37am

I love this 'new' idea that theater is ephemeral and we need to have these things recorded or else how could we possibly live full lives??? Oh, for a bootleg of St. Genesius being nailed to the Cross.

And I'm fascinated by this upside down world in which the artists that actually, you know, create something for the theater are the bad guys because they won't release a soundboard or video recording of a show, and the good guys are the common man taking on the Herculean task of pointing a camera at a stage for a few hours and then selling them to people.

Bootlegs are a reality. People have opinions on them...and that's all well and good. But theater has survived for a very long time without bootlegs. And it will continue to survive should bootlegs somehow magically disappear.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/16/13 at 11:41am

^^^ Every. Single. Word. Is. True.

To add on a bit, I think the digital age has given us a world where people lay out so much money for hardware that they feel they shouldn't have to pay for content. In fact, when I hear of iTunes wanting to pay LESS to artists, I think that's a nutshell version of this problem. It's always the artists who get screwed in the end.