Which Rose Did You Vote For in the Poll?- Page 2

[moljul]

Posted: 7/31/03 at 8:25pm

Magruder, That was a really wonderful post. Very thoughtful, complete and beautifully written. Whether a person agrees with your opinion or not (and that's all it is - an opinion), they certainly can see you arrived at your opinion for very clear reasons. I happen to agree that Bernadette makes a thrilling Rose. I wish I could put my reasons into words as you have.

[Hello Gorgeous]

Posted: 7/31/03 at 9:39pm

I agree, that was beautifully written. I understand everything that was said there, yet I probably couldn't have put my thoughts down so nicely like that.

Posted: 7/31/03 at 9:48pm

What? Bette Midler didnt do justice to the role vocally?? What do you mean? Bernie can barely get through the show without sounding hoarse and you say bette sucks?

as for the movie it's out on dvd too, you can find it at tower and such or amazon.com

[PJ]

Posted: 7/31/03 at 10:15pm

I didn't say she sucks. I just don't like Bette on this recording. Her voice doesn't seem right to me for this part. For example, her "Some People" is very slow and...no pun intended, hum drum. I haven't seen her act the part as I've never seen the movie, but from what I've heard I'm not very ecstatic about. I'm not saying it's not necessarily bad, I just don't think her voice fit the role.

[magruder]

Posted: 7/31/03 at 10:49pm

I have to differ with you on this, Rob. I'd love to know when you saw the show. Bernadette's difficulties both prior to and immediately after the opening have been well documented. Since she opened right in New York, without benefit of tryout, I imagine she had to experiment with how to get through a week of performances. Rose belts out eight numbers in the show...three of which (Some People, Everything's Coming Up Roses and Rose's Turn) are balls-to-the- wall belting. Imagine your larynx after singing 64 throat-rattling numbers each week. Would you know how to pace yourself to get through such a marathon workout? Having seen her at a couple of post-opening shows in good health, she's getting through it in fine form these days.

Some roles just take their toll... Lansbury and Daly missed performances, or had to stagger through performances in an impaired state. Iron-lunged Betty Buckley went on for a week at Paper Mill and lost her voice. Even the great, impervious Merman blew a blood vessel singing Momma Rose and had to miss performances (and had to have the keys lowered). You hold the hoarseness you heard in Bernadette against her like it's some failing on her part...when all of her great predecessors have suffered the same fate at some point while taking on this role.

As for the purity of Bernadette's instrument, well...Is her voice as crystalline as it was in her teens and 20s, in Dames at Sea, On the Town, George M! and Mack & Mabel? No. A roughness around the edges seeped in during her 80s shows, giving her a sometimes gravelly, throaty sound. I think now Bernadette works it to her advantage, not being afraid to take a note or phrase and make it sound rough-hewn or grotesque for dramatic or emotional effect (Case in point: the cast recording performances of "We Do Not Belong Together" in Sunday and "Lament" in Into the Woods). Perfect notes, no, but right for those characters (and I've yet to see a Dot or Witch to rival Bernadette, though I imagine Julia McKenzie in the London Woods was something to see). Through it all, she is making smart choices as an actress (and in my opinion, she has never received her due as an actress).

As for Midler...she has the chops, the talent, the drive and the comedic skills to be a great Rose (with a somewhat hard-edged voice, that is a limited instrument with great character and color). And she's just running hog wild, out-of-control in that movie. I wonder what she would have done under the eye of Arthur Laurents, Sam Mendes or any other sympathetic director.

[TEACHEROFTHEATER]

Posted: 8/1/03 at 10:42am

Magruder,,,,i loved your insightful posting:)

i voted for Angela (I saw her in Gypsy 3 times at the Wintergarden) but I loved Bette in the tv film and I was blown away by Bernadette on the Tony awards.

[BrdwyThtr]

Posted: 8/1/03 at 11:09am

I voted for Bernadette.

Posted: 8/1/03 at 3:09pm

Magruder, I give u props for backing up Bernie, props to you my friend.

I dont hate bernie, and yes this is a vocally demanding role, but so is Evita, Sunset Boulevard, Funny Girl, and so on...
I just never thought Bernie was ever right for the part.

Betty Buckley played it recently and got great reviews, and I heard her "Rose's Turn" pretty damn awesome. But I wa just turned off by Bernie's hoarseness, now, maybe she was sick at the Tony's and that's why she sounded like she couldn't get through the song. You know when you go to see a high school show and by closing night the actors are so hoarse you dont know if they will hit the notes? that's how i felt about bernie and she has been a major theatre star for 30 years! Why is she hoarse, doesnt she know how to sing properly by now?? It's not like she's never belted in her career, she KNOWS how to belt, therefore she's not singing and using her insrument properly if she's vocally fry.

but if thats not how she sounds at every performance, my view changes. But if she sounds fry she's hurting herself and the audience who watch her.

I know Divas can blow out there voices, Jenn Holliday, Patti Lupone and so forth.

I've seen Patti a few times live and man, does that woman have some crystal pipes. she can belt ANYTHING. Crystal clear and it reaches the back of the house without any worry of fry or fatigue. Now I know she has blown her voice many times, and possibly bernie has too. So i'm not making fun of bernie, by far i'm not, just saying if she sounds fry every night something's wrong, but i guess I'll find out by the cd...

[PJ]

Posted: 8/1/03 at 3:29pm

I liked Bernadette's "hoarseness" in Rose's Turn on the Tony's. It made her character seem mad and I always thought she just slipped into that tone of voice to make her character seem mad during the number...silly me.

Posted: 8/1/03 at 3:31pm

But she started the song like that when she said "Here she is boys!!...." Even on the sexy parts and whatnot she was fry.

[magruder]

Posted: 8/1/03 at 3:48pm

As I mentioned, there is a throatiness to her voice these days.

As for "Rose's Turn" on the Tonys... The Tonys were Sunday night after she had completed an eight show week, including two shows the previous day, as well as no doubt, several camera blocking rehearsals for the Tony segment.

Was she hoarse? Yes. It's not the best her voice has sounded, in general, or in performance in the role. But I found her Tony performance incredibly exciting. Pointing out her hoarseness, which I acknowlege, does nothing to diminish what she accomplished that night, at least in my opinion.

Posted: 8/1/03 at 3:49pm

point taken and case closed. :)

[PJ]

Posted: 8/1/03 at 5:40pm

The throatiness added a little something to the song.

[mamamia sammy]

Posted: 8/1/03 at 6:06pm

I did a write in ballot for Betty Buckley

[ChrisLovesShows]

Posted: 8/1/03 at 6:41pm

PJ, there are some used copies of the Bette Midler GYPSY on amazon.com both on VHS and DVD.

[sharon1]

Posted: 8/1/03 at 6:55pm

Voted for RR. She can't sing as well as the other women. But she can acto the pants off of them. I guess that dates me.

[PJ]

Posted: 8/1/03 at 11:17pm

Tonite I bought the movie version w/ Roz. She was awesome in the acting and in Rose's Turn. Alhough I'm not too sure how much of the singing was hers or her dubber. But I have to admit that "Some People" and "Everything's Coming Up Roses" were a tad flat. Probably because it was a movie and they didn't want to use the big orchestrations that I've become accustomed to through my listening of the various cast recordings. But all in all, it was a great film.

[seabyrd]

Posted: 8/2/03 at 10:22am

I think the voice was Lisa Kirk dubbing Russell. I agree about the acting - she made Rose a very sympathetic character. As for the poll, I have seen 3 Roses - Angela, Tyne, and Buckley. And my CD of Merman is my favorite. I liked Tyne the least. When I saw Bernadette do "Some People" on a tv show not long ago, I was horrified at the way she stomped and pranced and paced back and forth across the stage...it's not necessary. Just some random thoughts here - after seeing Buckley at the Paper Mill a few years ago, I was sure she was the best, but the feeling fades now in retrospect. I also have never felt that Rose was having a so-called "nervous breakdown" during Rose's Turn as some people seem to think. You dont have one, and then recover after the song is over! Rose is one of the greatest roles ever written, true to life or not, and the music/lyrics are such perfection. It's my favorite show. Rambling here......for what it's worth.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 8/2/03 at 11:24pm

I voted for Rose By-Any-Other-Name because she smells so sweet.

[BwayStar2B]

Posted: 8/2/03 at 11:35pm

Bernadette. Her performance was so different and fresh. She brought so much to the character, and I was blown away by "Rose's Turn."

[GottaGimmick]

Posted: 8/3/03 at 11:35am

BERNADETTE! I'm a long time fan! :)

[BillyLawlor]

Posted: 8/3/03 at 12:06pm

I agree that her hoarse voice did add something to the song. "Rose's Turn" is not something that needs to be sung beautifully. More importantly that the vocals are the emotions that have to be emitted in the song in order for it to work. Bernadette did that. She made us feel for her in her rendition of the song. At one point she had tears in her eyes, and she was hoarse. I thought it worked perfectly for the character.

[PJ]

Posted: 8/3/03 at 12:41pm

I agree. It added impact to Bernadette's rendition. (the crying and hoarseness)

[etoile]

Posted: 8/3/03 at 3:53pm

How possibly could anyone in good conscience and with an ethical basis vote in a comparison poll without having seen all the performances? And a CD recording does NOT a performance make. That's as debasing to a performer as comparing live stage performances to film. Oh wait! That's being here done also.

[moljul]

Posted: 8/3/03 at 4:06pm

Perhaps because the poll is just for fun. You may be taking it all a bit too seriously.