Why Musicals SHOULD be VIDEOTAPED- Page 15

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 1:03pm

I find it funny that people are so against this, and say "Theatre should only be live!" yet I'm sure they have videotaped performances of shows like PIAZZA, INTO THE WOODS, SWEENEY TODD etc. not to mention countless cast recordings (which if they really meant what they said would mean these cds completely ruin the theatrical experience because those songs should only ever be heard live and on a stage).

I, for one, wish you the best of luck with this project.

[USTheater.TV]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 1:10pm

Thanks Isabella2. Its hard work and very tough at times coping with some of the hostile comments. Getting publicity is even harder as the media giants with their newspapers and TV control this space and many are not ready to launch their equivalent products so they give my website ZERO column inches which is the fuel that it needs to help it grow and keep it in the hands of the performers and artists that it represents. Can you imagine SONY owning US THEATER NETWORK ? or Rupert Murdoch ?

[Craig]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 1:29pm

USTheater.TV

I believe it is you that is mistaken about bias. Clearly you have one against this site and its policies. And I'm not going to address them publically.

That aside - again, I state that there must be a language or interpretation issue at stake. Feel free to read my comments on all the threads pertaining to this. I have NEVER stated that musicals shouldn't be recorded. And in fact, I never (NEVER) pitted anyone against you. In fact, I defended you and your OPINION on the matter at every turn

What you consider going against you and your site was me, as Senior Editor, making sure that any material linked in your posts didn't go against our guidelines against bootlegs. Zero tolerance on that pal, and that's not a bias. I stated in previous posts IF... (very literally IF) there was material that went against our policies, those links/posts would be deleted. As I then posted, I found none and therefor had NO issue.

Your memory either needs a refresher, or, as I stated, your bias' or interpretation is completed false.

[Craig]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 1:31pm

p.s. re-read my most recent posts there - I didn't negate what you said, I merely explained WHY it's not being done now or will be in the near future. A LOT would have to happen....

[devonian.t]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 1:33pm

Well done for the innovation. Some people have narrow minds and narrow definitions of what theatre should be.

There are plenty of people who are not privileged enough to be able to get to a theatre for a live performance. You are offering greater access, which is an admirable thing.

[[e-mail]]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 1:39pm

Why not tape the show so that it can be distributed once the show closes? That way "new classics" like Light in the Piazza, Wicked, etc. will be preserved in our hearts and minds even if a "feature film" version is never released.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 1:44pm

I say, abso-friggin'-lutely. Do it. Not enough librettos are published and not enough shows are taped for video. Not everyone can afford to see Wicked and frankly, to be quite honest, there are some pissed off Lestat and Brooklyn fans out there. 'Nough said.

[USTheater.TV]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 1:46pm

Craig

Innocent until proven guilty means that you don't make a comment of IF I had a bootleg until you determine that I DID !! In fact none were found but the mere mention, as an SENIOR EDITOR was enough to put the suggestion in people's minds. You SHOULD know the influence your words have on people, but clearly you don't.

I have no problem with this website, I like its focus and its popularity. I do however think that the number of aggressive members you have should be managed better. Its not just stating an opinion because many are not opinions but aggressive reactions to a point they don't like. I've seen myself and others getting lambasted by people who enjoy the sport of negativity.

At UKTheatre.Net and USTHeater.Net they will NOT be tolerated, irrespective of their opinions. Life's too short to have an angst ridden bulletin board when its supposed to be about ENTERTAINMENT. My thread has ALWAYS been about promoting theatre and sharing it with more and more people around the world but even this well meaning thread has had its MAFIA style "let's get the pitchforks !", which I know you have since removed because you have recognised the libellous nature of them.

I will watch BWW with interest. I think publicy you say one thing but secretly you are hoping to capture market share in this business and therefore I don't think that is being open and honest with people.

[Craig]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 1:55pm

Oh Doug. Sigh. I just re-read my postings in this thread. Have you? You really need to because you're barking up the wrong tree. That means you're wrong. And that's not opinion, it's fact.

You claim you've been censored and others have, but have just stated clearly state there isn't censorship and posters are free to strike against you. Which is it?

Just as you have your right to post your opinions, so do others. For better, for worse. You can't expect everyone to like or agree with you on a message board and in life.

Why should this message board and its members be any different or hold a different opinion than those media outlets that are not giving your site the space on their pages? You're holding a higher standard to anonymous posters here? Very interesting

Let's stop throwing legalities around like libel, slander and the such. Posts were removed because they went against guidelines set forth by this site. Not because of any legal worry from you or anyone else.

And you don't know me at all. If you did, like others do, you would know that I'm about as straight forward and honest as they come. No agendas, no secret plotting.

But your posts have now crossed into science fiction and are extremely humourous, whether or not it's the intent.


-Craig

...and for the record, re-read this entire thread again (as I have suggested several times) - twasn't me that put ANY negative thoughts in anyone's minds. I DEFY you do prove otherwise. I defy you also to show how I have said that this shouldn't be done.

Your move.

[etoile]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 2:57pm

Let me see if I now understand what's currently going on in this thread.

Posters have voiced how difficult it would be to make such a project a reality here in the US, mentioning union contracts and the like. One of those posters was Craig. Seems someone else doesn't want to hear opposing opinion or the difficulties involved. His reaction seem to be that he become defensive, litigious where no grounds exist to be, condescending, and exhibiting what I perceive to be nothing but contempt for this site and many of its posters.

Post and peoples' comments are deleted all the time if it's not in keeping with the board guidelines. Threads, across the board, are deleted for their links. It has been explained that the administration here is not requires to view links posted to see if they are legitimate or authorized. They will be deleted. You suck it up and go on. USTheater seems to suggest that he should be exempt. That he is special. He wants to hawk his sites for free, by piggying backing on Broadwayworld and its membership. His post here seem to consist of nothing but drumming up business for himself. I'm not getting a very warm communal sense but rather a one sided me, me, me feel.

"... Its hard work and very tough at times coping with some of the hostile comments. Getting publicity is even harder as the media giants with their newspapers and TV control this space and many are not ready to launch their equivalent products so they give my website ZERO column inches..."

I know of no media outlet that would be unwilling to give you all the publicity you want. IF YOU WERE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT. You come here demeaning the posters who disagree with you, yet hold your hand out expecting something be given to you for free.

Any support I may have felt in the past for your project has been overshadowed by the negative vibe I sense from your post.

[today4u:proofpositiv]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 3:46pm

I have to agree with those who think that theatre should stay live. Thats what I like best about a show- the fact that its live. I think video taping the show would take away from the performance. And USTheatre.TV, if you don't liek the rules of this board and feel you're being treated unfairly, maybe you shoyld take your thoughts elsewhere.

[USTheater.TV]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 5:42pm

Hey, thanks for continuing to post to this thread as the more it is accepted into people's mind, negative or otherwise, the more likely it is to happen. I have no doubt in my mind that it will. I am only a catalyst as I have been for 5 years progressing this idea.

There are people on this thread, including some of the editors, who form opinions that are totally blinkered. They think they can stop something that is inevitable. They can't. It will happen, whether it is me personally or the many other entrepreneurs reading this in different cities around the U.S. who can see the potential.

All it takes is a quality camera person or two, an editor, a willing theatre company who wants publicity, some agreement with actors who want their work shown around the world, and the same from the writers, and then do it. Film it as professionally as you can, understand the play or musical and capture the best moments in close up. Then upload it. To my site preferably (www.uktheatre.net), or any other site which has millions of visitors and let the world see some great theatre, some great actors and some great writing.

People from Australia, India, China, Iran, South Africa, Japan and many other countries around the world have downloaded my video podcasts (Itunes podcast directory UK THEATRE NETWORK) and they keep coming back for more.

There is clearly something in the mind of people in this thread who are against this. If they truly LOVE theatre, they would want it in the hands of billions of people around the world. They are clearly trying to protect something. I think it could be revenues, as GREED is normally something that brings out the worst in people and I have seen some horrible postings in this thread, and I continue to get an editor trying to argue his point and say that I am WRONG in some adamant way to discredit me as this posting has received a significant number of replies and hits.


When I first kicked the posting off, if you read it again, you will see it was filled with enthusiasm, with pride, with a love for theatre and a drive to take it out to the world, with the support of the people in this website. The uphill struggle to gain acceptance in this website has been a journey I didn't expect but I am happy to take on the challenge. Not from a selfish point of view like some people will make out on this site, but purely that I am driven to see a change in this for the future and change the opinions of those who hold back progress in theatre.

UK Theatre Network

[Craig]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 6:14pm

I hereby dub you the joan of arc of UK theater tv.

Now.. if you want to throw legalities around, I should demand that you remove "editors" from your comment regarding me trying to stop anything.

Again, I challenge you to show me anything I've said which indicates this shouldn't be done. The only thing I have said on the "negative" has been how cost prohibitive it is and has been in the states.

And this thread started with controversy (not me) - so let's not kid ourselves by implying it was meant with complete excitement. That is, unless, you are a revisionist.

And as I've posted earlier in this thread.. while you might be pursuing this avenue and perhaps pioneering aspects, recording musicals for mass consumption has been around for well over a decade and long before your site existed.

But go on your crusade. More power to you... Just don't twist my words - which I have written very distinctly to imply anything other than what I intended them to mean. It's very black and white.

Updated On: 7/30/06 at 06:14 PM

[I<3JLY]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 6:20pm

Well said, Craig.

Now, USTheater.tv, you have no power here so be gone before someone drops a house on you.

[Holly2]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 6:48pm

I'm in favor of this becasue I live in the Midwest over 1000 miles from NYC and Broadway. The big shows, Like Wicked and Lion King get here a couple years after they have opened on Broadway but some of the smaller shows probably won't make it. I would love the see a show like Parade but doubt I'll get the chance. I don't agree with the idea that people won't attend live theater when they have seen the show on DVD or tape. I live near St. Louis and the Muny puts on several shows every summer. Most of these are older established shows such as The King & I or Oliver but peopple still go to these shows even though the majority have seen the film versions and they attend these shows at an outdoor theater in St. Louis during the summer when the heat index on some evenings is over 100 degrees. People who love theater will continue to attend it and having DVDs availabe may interest other people to try a live theater production some time. A lot of my friends won't go to the theater becasue they think it has become a pastime for the elite and they hesitate to spend $50 to $100 for a show they know nothing about. I think the possible benefits outweigh the negatives.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 7/30/06 at 10:15pm

If you can't find the support you need for your project on BWW.com here is a link to a site that might enthusiastically support it. I think you can get free advertising in exchange for things such as interviews with the stars, but don't quote me. Best of luck to you.
I <3 Theatre!!!

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 7/31/06 at 12:55am

I think it is a good idea to film them, etc....if just to see how production numbers were done (read: Bennett, Fosse, etc.)...on the other hand, theatre should be live! Hence the Lincoln Library.

I am, however, confused on one point:

You said, "Тo my site preferably (www.uktheatre.net)" (I know that sentence continued, but...) since you are tyring to market your site - why should we put BROADWAY shows on a UK website?

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/31/06 at 1:07am

I think this is my favorite thread ever. I love this thread more than Brenden's memorial service.

[USTheater.TV]

Posted: 7/31/06 at 2:38am

Again, many thanks for your points:

My web services are all U.S based so from a technical point of view the infrastructure is closer to the U.S. than UK and over 50% of my visitors are from the U.S. and 65% of Video Podcast downloads are from the U.S. Additionally I have setup USTheater.TV which directs people to the US focussed area which I will be redeveloping as soon as the Edinburgh Fringe is over this month.

Thanks for the link to Corine's Corner and I will certainly be pursuing that. I am also hooked into an L.A. network which are great people and very supportive.

And finally, Craig, many thanks for your continued contributions, I wonder if you get so much involved in other posts or just this one ? Every word you choose to say influences YOUR followers (way to go Craig and such comments), who know you from years on this website, and every word you say against me, is you continuing to discredit me. It's the way newspaper editors do it as well. C'est la vie.

To end on a high note, MANY MANY thanks for those who have just subscribed over the weekend. I haven't seen the idea connecting with people so quickly that it not only influences people to visit but also to become a member and support its growth. I can't do it alone and it has a much bigger mission than BWW. The network supports theatre in all shapes and forms and Broadway musicals just happens to be the next area of focus. It needs supporters, editors, contributors, publishers, actors, producers, filmmakers and most of all AUDIENCES to build it. It's a content management system much like MYSPACE, and the service can help promote everything from your local amateur musical, off-broadway, community theatre as well as the big musicals. It's not ticket focussed like many others sites, it's more inside theatre with thousands of practitioners from professional bodies like BAFTA, Oscars, Equity etc who receive the newsletters and contribute to the site. I even have support from the American Theater Wing, who gratefully provided lots of Careers Movies.

I'll reply to any further comments later tonight but thanks again. It's not an easy thing I'm trying to do and I don't have any revenue from advertising like other sites, but I am inspired by the support I receive and I pick myself up from the debates and personal attacks and move on, knowing that it's the right thing to do for theatre.

2,000,000 visitors per year can't be wrong.
US THEATER TV

[Craig]

Posted: 7/31/06 at 8:56am

1. A simple search will show my involvement in hundreds of threads on this board.

2. Clearly you haven't done the simple task or re-reading my posts in this thread or the thread in general based on your snarky comments

3. I haven't said or done anything to discredit you in regards to your mission, but I have certainly stated facts to discredit your diatribes against me which are completely unfounded.

4. You claim your site has no funding, yet on another thread and on your website, you "pitch" services on your site that are fee-based. You also have paypal links for people to buy advertising. So that either means no one is using these services (which seems contrary to the text on your website) or you're not being 100 percent honest on that factor. I welcome your enlightenment.

5. A bigger mission than BroadwayWorld.com? Really. Interesting. Since you have little idea about the site (apparent from your postings) how could you possibly make such a bold statement?

6. You seem to think everyone posting in this thread is attacking YOU. They aren't. They have opposition to the ideas presented. You are passionate about these ideas - but just because someone disagrees or offers their opinion doesn't mean they are attacking you. But cry "victim" often as you have in one thread and it can become an agitator.

7. If you think I have "power" over the posters opinions here.. well. That's just funny. Very very funny. Clearly you aren't reading other threads. And it could be a word choice issue - but followers? Please, I'm not Moses.

8. And this can seem like a personal attack on you, but I assure you it isn't as I have heard from several posters here. Intentional or not, your posts are growing increasingly condescending and arrogant. That might not be the intent - but it's how it's being perceived. Just thought I'd let you know. And since these are the people you are trying to have visit your site, you may want to re-think your "strategy"

9. My turn to be snarky - 2,000,000 visitors a year can't be wrong? You do realize there are thousands of websites that offer nothing buy bile and hatred that get more than that. Doesn't make them "right" - just makes them visited.

But on a positive note. Good for you on pursuing your passions and your dreams.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 7/31/06 at 9:26am

well said Craig, and what many of us, I think, have wanted to say but couldn't find the right words.

[USTheater.TV]

Posted: 7/31/06 at 9:33am

Craig/There is no way we can solve this here and you continue to further discredit me by your false perceptions and inappropriate attitudes, which mirror a small percentage of your website visitors. It serves no purpose to continue with your very clear and itemised list of things (well done, have you ever been an auditor). This is just getting in the way of the real discussion which is, thankfully, gaining support from others. PM me if you'd like to discuss further but you seem to splitting hairs on every comment I make and its not healthy and not constructive and rather embarrassing that its got to this level.

Have a nice day and thanks for your finishing comments.
________________________

[Craig]

Posted: 7/31/06 at 9:52am

I respectfully decline your invitation to take it private for the moment since you've made it a point over and over to make false statements about me and this site.

Again you make laughable statements about me trying to discredit you with "false" perceptions yet you fail to see that it's really you that has the false perception. You also fail to respond to the simple queries such as indicating where on this thread I have said anything against the idea of recording shows for the masses. It's not about splitting hairs. It's about backing up your statements. Hard truth? I don't have to do anything to discredit you - you're doing a fine job yourself with your commitment to NOT responding to the issues but, like a politician, redirecting focus and/or doubletalking.

You want to throw out all these random bits of opinion and topics of conversation, but don't want to respond to them when called to task. You might think I have acted inappropriately as a staff member of this site (and that's your opinion), but as the creator and 'innovator' of your project, my opinion is that you haven't shown a level of professionalism one would expect. And that, my friend, can be your undoing in this small industry.

Best of luck

[USTheater.TV]

Posted: 7/31/06 at 10:15am

There you go again. I have better things to do than to invest time in going through your significant comments and addressing them. You seem to have lots of time on your hands to do so and you will always have as its your site. Once again, well done for your attitude, I can keep going on if you want, but its now clearly YOU who have an attitude problem. I guess you just can't let go.
_________________________

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/31/06 at 10:30am

Just a point of clarification, anybody who has posted as much as you have in this thread has no business writing "I have better things to do than to invest time in going through your significant comments and addressing them."

Really? You've obviously read them and judged them significant.

You don't come off well in this thread UST. You might want to try to come off as a nice guy whom people might want to be around as you're attempting to get your business to grow. You shouldn't seem like as much of a pompous ass as you do now until you're filthy rich as a result of your own personal ingenuity that you keep trumpeting.

Updated On: 7/31/06 at 10:30 AM