#26
Posted: 11/7/05 at 9:12pm
Sometimes I get that feeling, however.
Winokur vs. Peters...Who deserved it? — Page 2
#27
Posted: 11/7/05 at 9:15pm
Peters, in 20 years her performance will be remembered, I can't say the same about MJW performance (while it may havebeen wonderful) Peter's was the kind of legendary performance that in many years you'll look back and say "wow, remember when..."
~And let us try, before we die, to make some sense of life~
#28
Posted: 11/7/05 at 9:54pm
I think Marissa Jaret Winokur won because she was part of a big hit that provided a great star turn. There's no way the character of Tracy Turnblad requires the vocal, dramatic, and emotional demands that Momma Rose calls for. Were both actresses spectacular in their respective roles? Yes. Did Winokur had to work as hard as Peters to reach that spectacular performance? Probably not. Bernadette Peters in Gypsy was THE most impacting performance I have ever seen on stage-mind you, I only get to see a couple of shows per year-and of course she deserved the Tony that year.
"Some people can thrive and bloom living life in a living room, that's perfect for some people of one hundred and five. But I at least gotta try, when I think of all the sights that I gotta see, all the places I gotta play, all the things that I gotta be at"
#29
Posted: 11/7/05 at 11:00pm
Marissa it all look so easy. She made performing Tracey as natural as breathing. Her Tony may be a "one off" but no other Tracey (with the possible exception of an early-in-the-run Carly Jibson) has ever come close to capturing the drive and enthusiasm and charm of Tracy.
Bernadette did not disgrace herself in a role that she was esentially miscast in (not every great talent fits every great role) but one was always aware she was Trying. Very. Very. Hard. She did survive the taunts of the loathesome Reidel, but her Rose did not become quite the box office sensation many hoped it would be.
Marissa won because she deserved it. And if Patti LuPone ever does GYPSY at Ravina, Bernadette's Rose will be obliterated.
Bernadette did not disgrace herself in a role that she was esentially miscast in (not every great talent fits every great role) but one was always aware she was Trying. Very. Very. Hard. She did survive the taunts of the loathesome Reidel, but her Rose did not become quite the box office sensation many hoped it would be.
Marissa won because she deserved it. And if Patti LuPone ever does GYPSY at Ravina, Bernadette's Rose will be obliterated.
"Christ, Bette Davis?!?!"
Updated On: 11/7/05 at 11:00 PM
#30
Posted: 11/7/05 at 11:16pm
Bernadette's Rose will NOT be obliterated.
And I love LuPone.
And I love LuPone.
"I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about." - Oscar Wilde
#31
Posted: 11/7/05 at 11:16pm
I'm sure MJW is still wondering herself how she managed to snag that Tony.
#33
Posted: 11/7/05 at 11:50pm
I never cared for Gypsy but after seeing Bernadette in the role, I fell in love with her (true story too I totally had a crush on this amazing woman 30 years older than me) and Gypsy. It's what she brings to the role that made it a show I gladly saw 3 times: presence. I like Marissa very much but she cant (at least not yet?) win me over with her presence like Bernadette can.
#34
Posted: 11/8/05 at 12:04am
I think it appeared Bernadette was trying because Rose is constantly trying. Rose shouldn't look or feel effortless--she is a relentless woman!
MJW should have never won the Tony but her performance on the Tony awards (where she started in the wrong key sealed the deal for me. Bernadette deserved it hands down for the multi-layered performance she gave every night at the Shubert.
MJW should have never won the Tony but her performance on the Tony awards (where she started in the wrong key sealed the deal for me. Bernadette deserved it hands down for the multi-layered performance she gave every night at the Shubert.
#35
Posted: 11/8/05 at 12:06am
You can't beat a nun or a fat girl. Lord help us if we get a fat nun. 
#36
Posted: 11/8/05 at 12:09am
I honestly think that the first time I saw GYPSY, Brantley was in da house because Peters delivered the best performance I'd ever seen on a stage up til then (that title now belongs to Vicky Clark in TLITP with Peters right behind).
I saw this near-flawless revival 3 times and each time (the second time, she stopped and coughed up a furball during Together, Wherever... it was saddening) she managed to pull through and deliver a splendid performance. Her ROSES TURN every time I saw it left me in tears. Possibly the best vocal performance Ive ever witnessed live. Her Mama Rose ripped at your heart and ate you alive. Her performance was a feat of all feats and a triumph on every level. A performance for the ages in my book.
I saw this near-flawless revival 3 times and each time (the second time, she stopped and coughed up a furball during Together, Wherever... it was saddening) she managed to pull through and deliver a splendid performance. Her ROSES TURN every time I saw it left me in tears. Possibly the best vocal performance Ive ever witnessed live. Her Mama Rose ripped at your heart and ate you alive. Her performance was a feat of all feats and a triumph on every level. A performance for the ages in my book.
#37
Posted: 11/8/05 at 12:13am
Was not the problem everybody was hoping she would fail, all i read up till the times review was negitive stuff about her being cast..once the ball starts rolling is not hard to turn the tide.
Not even the New Yorks times can do that.
Should she have won: Yes..
Not even the New Yorks times can do that.
Should she have won: Yes..
Well I didn't want to get into it, but he's a Satanist.
Every full moon he sacrifices 4 puppies to the Dark Lord and smears their blood on his paino.
This should help you understand the score for Wicked a little bit more.
Tazber's: Reply to
Is Stephen Schwartz a Practicing Christian
Updated On: 11/8/05 at 12:13 AM
#38
Posted: 11/8/05 at 12:17am
"if Patti LuPone ever does GYPSY at Ravina, Bernadette's Rose will be obliterated"
A little biased are we? LOL. Personally, I think it would be smart of LuPone to never do the part. Then people could go around imagining what a stupendous Rose she would have been if only . . . Kind of the opposite of that saying, "better to let people think you're an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Besides, there's no part for McDonald and Ceveris in Gypsy really. I think they should do ITW. LuPone could be the Witch (wasn't she supposed to do that at one time), McDonald could be the Baker's Wife, Cerveris could be the Baker and Hearn could get back in the picture and play the Mysterious Old Man and the Narrator.
I guess in certain circles it's popular to promote the idea that Peters gave only one great performance when Brantley was present (and I suppose the other critcs who raved all happened to be at that same show too and never mind that people can't even agree on whether her Tony performance was great or not), but I know several people who saw the show at various times throughout the run -- some of whom were Gypsy virgins, others had seen everyone from Merman, Lansbury, Daly even Dolores Grey -- and they all came back with positive to rave reviews. I also happened to be at the performance Brantley was at and I actually thought the performance I saw later that year was better -- she was healthy vocally and had altered some of those strange line readings.
Anyone know if they actually tried to find a replacement for Peters? Not some of those crazy names mentioned on ATC. But actual stars who could sing, act and sell the show? Aren't there lots of underemployed 40+ actresses out there.
A little biased are we? LOL. Personally, I think it would be smart of LuPone to never do the part. Then people could go around imagining what a stupendous Rose she would have been if only . . . Kind of the opposite of that saying, "better to let people think you're an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Besides, there's no part for McDonald and Ceveris in Gypsy really. I think they should do ITW. LuPone could be the Witch (wasn't she supposed to do that at one time), McDonald could be the Baker's Wife, Cerveris could be the Baker and Hearn could get back in the picture and play the Mysterious Old Man and the Narrator.
I guess in certain circles it's popular to promote the idea that Peters gave only one great performance when Brantley was present (and I suppose the other critcs who raved all happened to be at that same show too and never mind that people can't even agree on whether her Tony performance was great or not), but I know several people who saw the show at various times throughout the run -- some of whom were Gypsy virgins, others had seen everyone from Merman, Lansbury, Daly even Dolores Grey -- and they all came back with positive to rave reviews. I also happened to be at the performance Brantley was at and I actually thought the performance I saw later that year was better -- she was healthy vocally and had altered some of those strange line readings.
Anyone know if they actually tried to find a replacement for Peters? Not some of those crazy names mentioned on ATC. But actual stars who could sing, act and sell the show? Aren't there lots of underemployed 40+ actresses out there.
#39
Posted: 11/8/05 at 1:03am
WOW! This was 3 Tony Awards ago. Why is this thread being revived?
I doubt in 20 years there will be revivals of HAIRPSRAY. It's fun but just an overblown cartoon ripped off brom a popular low budget film. When I saw it, it was enjoyable fluff but in no way a legendary musical liek GYPSY.
GYPSY gets revived often because it's a strong show. The role of Madame Rose is a killer part and any good actress can send it over the top. But if talking Tony puzzlers's how the hell did Mary Martin's far to old portrayal of Maria Von Trapp win the Tony over Ethel Merman's Rose??? SOUND OF MUSIC was hardly Martin's best role. And he had just won a few seasons earlier for PETER PAN.
This may have actulaly helpd MJW win: Peters had just won for AGYG 4 years earlier.
I doubt in 20 years there will be revivals of HAIRPSRAY. It's fun but just an overblown cartoon ripped off brom a popular low budget film. When I saw it, it was enjoyable fluff but in no way a legendary musical liek GYPSY.
GYPSY gets revived often because it's a strong show. The role of Madame Rose is a killer part and any good actress can send it over the top. But if talking Tony puzzlers's how the hell did Mary Martin's far to old portrayal of Maria Von Trapp win the Tony over Ethel Merman's Rose??? SOUND OF MUSIC was hardly Martin's best role. And he had just won a few seasons earlier for PETER PAN.
This may have actulaly helpd MJW win: Peters had just won for AGYG 4 years earlier.
Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks."
Live theatre does not use a "soundtrack." If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!
I host a weekly one-hour radio program featuring cast album selections as well as songs by cabaret, jazz and theatre artists. The program, FRONT ROW CENTRE is heard Sundays 9 to 10 am and also Saturdays from 8 to 9 am (eastern times) on www.proudfm.com
#40
Posted: 11/8/05 at 1:32am
Yes, and I think many agree that Annie Oakley was hardly one of Peters' best performances.
BERNADETTE WAS ROBBED
BERNADETTE WAS ROBBED
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
#41
Posted: 11/8/05 at 1:35am
This topic again? Those Peters fans will never get over it will they?
MJW deserved her Tony Award. Peters gave a workmanlike though certainly not an awe inspiring reinvention of the role, which is what would be needed for an actress to garner the award for her portrayal of Rose at this time. (I don't think everyone who plays the role should automatically queue up for the award, and it was starting to look that way).
I do think you'll be seeing Hairspray in 20 years time. I think it is the next generations Grease.
MJW deserved her Tony Award. Peters gave a workmanlike though certainly not an awe inspiring reinvention of the role, which is what would be needed for an actress to garner the award for her portrayal of Rose at this time. (I don't think everyone who plays the role should automatically queue up for the award, and it was starting to look that way).
I do think you'll be seeing Hairspray in 20 years time. I think it is the next generations Grease.
Updated On: 11/8/05 at 01:35 AM
#42
Posted: 11/8/05 at 1:38am
Seems you're in the minority alterego.
And who cares if this was three Tony awards ago? People still talk about Merman being robbed of the award during the original run of GYPSY...and that was many years ago. This is JUST as relevant a topic.
And I highly doubt we'll be seeing HAIRSPRAY in 20 years.
To echo what Munk said:
BERNADETTE WAS ROBBED
And who cares if this was three Tony awards ago? People still talk about Merman being robbed of the award during the original run of GYPSY...and that was many years ago. This is JUST as relevant a topic.
And I highly doubt we'll be seeing HAIRSPRAY in 20 years.
To echo what Munk said:
BERNADETTE WAS ROBBED
"I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about." - Oscar Wilde
Updated On: 11/8/05 at 01:38 AM
#43
Posted: 11/8/05 at 1:52am
And Merman sang it brilliantly.
#44
Posted: 11/8/05 at 7:42am
Bernadette Peters, no question. She had the whole package, and found new life in one of the most famous B'way musical characters.
Marissa Winokur, while charming as Tracy, sort of rode the wave of the show. She was neither a strong singer, nor a strong dancer. (I always found that strange since that is one of the main conceits of the show)
Marissa Winokur, while charming as Tracy, sort of rode the wave of the show. She was neither a strong singer, nor a strong dancer. (I always found that strange since that is one of the main conceits of the show)
#45
Posted: 11/8/05 at 8:02am
I'm not a Hairspray fan, although I found Ms. Winouker to be quite enjoyable, but she had NOTHING on Bernadette Peters. Bernadette gave a soulful, beautiful and nuanced performance that will be remembered for decades.
#46
Posted: 11/8/05 at 8:09am
I didn't see either of them, so I can have no opinion on this (although I have the suspicion I would vote for Peters), but can you imagine being MJW after the Tonys? I mean, she beat out this legend Broadway actor to win the best actress Tony. I bet she got a TON of crap for that and still is. I feel bad for her.
"This table, he is over one hundred years old. If I could, I would take an old gramophone needle and run it along the surface of the wood. To hear the music of the voices. All that was said." - Doug Wright, I Am My Own Wife
#47
Posted: 11/8/05 at 10:26am
truly disliked this production of GYPSY (i've seen the two previous b'way incarnations w/ tyne and angela)and the things i disliked and that i felt did a disservice to the story didn't have much to do w/ bernadette, although her casting was problematic from an energy standpoint. the bernadette that did rose's turn at the tonys was not the bernadette that did the piece after singing a whole show for 2 hours. after SOME PEOPLE she was really just exhausted. i thought the show was too much for her. it was like watching a child attempt to lift a piano.
i think promoters wanted to hoist accolades on HAIRSPRAY because it was about to make a pile of money for them, the show was magic and it was part of the zeitgeist. GYPSY wasn't going to tour, so what was the point (from their point of view) of awarding bernadette in a production that had serious detractors? awards are about so much more than being "deserving". bernadette risked a great deal doing GYPSY, including her health and her reputation. it was a profound commitment of time and energy to a great show. it was, perhaps, it's own reward.
i think promoters wanted to hoist accolades on HAIRSPRAY because it was about to make a pile of money for them, the show was magic and it was part of the zeitgeist. GYPSY wasn't going to tour, so what was the point (from their point of view) of awarding bernadette in a production that had serious detractors? awards are about so much more than being "deserving". bernadette risked a great deal doing GYPSY, including her health and her reputation. it was a profound commitment of time and energy to a great show. it was, perhaps, it's own reward.
Mind is Mantra.
#48
Posted: 11/8/05 at 10:57am
I heart Bernadette! I think she is the best invention since two ply toilet paper. Never saw her in Gypsy, I will shed tears over this till the day I die.
But since MJW won the Tony, a part of me deep down inside where everything is still warm and fuzzy believes that regardless of how ludicruosly talented Our Lady Peters is, MJW put in a unique enough performance to deserve it. She breathed life into a character who was endearing to all who watched and consistently touched the audience, enough to get a Tony. So I say MJW won it and she deserved it.
But since MJW won the Tony, a part of me deep down inside where everything is still warm and fuzzy believes that regardless of how ludicruosly talented Our Lady Peters is, MJW put in a unique enough performance to deserve it. She breathed life into a character who was endearing to all who watched and consistently touched the audience, enough to get a Tony. So I say MJW won it and she deserved it.
"It takes considerable knowledge to realise the extent of your own ignorance." Thomas Sowell
#49
Posted: 11/8/05 at 11:09am
you must have seen Bernadette early on in the run, garland girrrl, becuase I saw her last show, and she had plenty of stamina after her first, third, and sixth song, and her Rose's turn was one of the most intruiging pieces of theatre I have ever seen. She deserved the three standing ovations she got that night.
"I'm an American, Damnit!!! And if it's three things I don't believe in, it's quitting and math."
#50
Posted: 11/8/05 at 11:16am
i saw the show after the tonys.
Mind is Mantra.
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