is it because im young?- Page 2

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 2:26am

It's losing its "edge" because it's no longer "real" as far as current condition goes; NYC is just not like that anymore, so now you're not looking at now, you're looking at history. As a piece of art, yes it's gone mainstream, and I guess people look differently upon something in a tiny theatre in the East Village than they do something in a commercial Broadway house, but I don't think that's the "problem." What I mean by people calling it "irrelevant," though, is in terms of the people who are like "oh, AIDS isn't a problem anymore, so therefore Rent is irrelevant because the world is not the same," or something of the sort. That, IMO, is a ridiculous way to look at it, with regards to the musical and to the real life issues. AIDS didn't stop being a problem.

[teebz]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 2:26am

since i really started getting into it again only after the movie came out-before the movie i only saw it once in 2003-was it as popular as it is now after the movie?

was there this many people trying lottery or buying tickets?

[neddyfrank2]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 2:26am

Maybe I used the wrong word, its not dated. There are parts of the message that have been lost like the setting and the poverty of the time isnt around as much. I am not speaking for myself as I love RENT, and I am moved everytime I see it. But I was answering the question, of why people say its overrated. I dont want to start a fight with you, and I think the real messages of Rent are more important now then ever, but there are parts that just don't effect people the way that they used to. So, I wasnt saying that was for sure, but more some possible reasons why, someone would say its overrated. I'm sorry if I upseted you.

Btw, mac user here too.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 2:28am

Rent had long lines for lotto - people camped out.

I miss the faux-80s. (The mid-90s)

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 2:29am

It seems like the movie did do something to boost the advanced ticket sales; I mean, take a look at the grosses.

Right, I'm saying exactly that some of the specifics are no longer things that are current and present, but that doesn't mean they're "irrelevant." You can still pick up universal themes from events even hundreds of years ago, I think, if presented correctly, from an artistic or theatrical standpoint. I don't think something has to be current to be relevant.

Updated On: 5/6/06 at 02:29 AM

[teebz]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 2:30am

the only time i've camped out-if you call camping out sitting next to the theater with crazy people starting sing alongs and making puns-was for the 10th anniversary. I was there at 3:30 am.

It was absolutley insane. That's another part about rent that i love..the dedication fans have for it.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 2:31am

How about if Lincoln Center buys the Winter Garden Theatre and can have an anniversary of THE OCTOROON.

If you wanna talk about a show that is completely dated/period/irrelevant - that's it.

It ends with a ship exploding on stage (Move over chandelier and cherry picker!)

It has a white man kill a black slave...then an Indian, I mean Injin, kills him.

[teebz]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 2:33am

actually..i take that back to an extent.

i hate the "dedicated" fans that are they just to see what a hottie Roger is or to see Mimi ask him to light her candle.

[neddyfrank2]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 2:37am

You are right, but not everybody feels that way, which is why unfortunately people are now saying it's overrated. Rent is universal, and one of the most artistically staged pieces I have EVER seen, and I need to say that Rent isnt for everyone. Because if you don't want to face reality, then you really shouldnt see it, and the people who only like to see The Music Man and Hello Dolly (not saying that they are bad, Hello Dolly is my favorite musical), don't typically like RENT, and they are the people to say it is overrated.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 2:51am

Teebz

Some of the hostility you may perceive is not really directed at you specifically. It's a generational thing. Some people (myself included) can't help but get a little grumpy when we encounter young people who have not yet broadened their interest in musical theater. Not that we are all old grumps, we just get a little frustrated. We want you and the Rent and Wildhorn and Wicked fans to realize how incredily broad and diverse this area of the entertainment world is. (And excuse me if I am assuming that you are one of those young people).

For instance, did you know that the story for Rent was actually written in 1895? It's true. Giacomo Puccini wrote an opera named "La Boheme" which debuted in Turin and then Buenos Aires, Argentina in 1896. It was about young, starving artists in the poor inner-city of Paris and in particular, about the love life of a man named Rodrigo (Rodger) and a young woman named Mimi who was slowly dying of tuberculosis. Sound familiar?

You should take some time (and again forgive me if you already have) and go to the library and soak up as much as you can about the history of musical theater, you'll be amazed at how Broadway has influenced the world, the entertainment industry, the music industry...

I spent hours listening to scores of obscure shows and reading every book I could get my hands on. At first, it's as boring as ****, but soon, you begin to see the common links between Broadway, Hollywood, Opera, pop music, politics. Think of is as The Da Vinci Code, but with a better story and cool music. It's amazing.

Broadway needs to be continually refreshed with the blood of young people who bring a sense of wonder to the industry, like you do. You may be new at this, but there's a giant and exciting world waiting for you out there. IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK FOR IT.

Broadway has led the way in the entertainment world for a century now and continues to provide new and vibrant material - like Wicked and Rent. And if you know where we came from, it's so damn exciting to be a part of where we're going.

[freeadmission]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 9:33am

I'm nineteen and I don't like RENT. Why? Beyond your run of the mill human compassion/sympathy, I don't feel anything for the characters. They're not poor by circumstances outside their control. They CHOOSE not to have jobs (and when Mark gets one, he promptly quits), some of them CHOOSE to do drugs, sucking up the little cash that they do have, and they choose to live contrarty to societal norms. These are not things beyond their control like the events in a well-written tragedy (which would also actually have Mimi die, BTW). They live in a self-created poverty and demand my pity and the pity of others because they are poor.

I saw RENT when it came out on DVD and watched the long feature on Jonathon's life before I saw the film. After watching the film, it confused me as to why Jonathon, a man who worked hard in the evenings to pay for his necessities, would lift up the lifestyle of a Bohemian. Jonathon sacrificed almost EVERTHING for his art and never complained about his poverty or asked for handouts. . . and he succeeded by writing a musical that glorifies seflish poverty.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 9:49am

Reading the arguments re RENTS relevancy it strikes me as to how similar to the Hair debate.

[devonian.t]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 10:24am

BSOBW you're really on a roll today!

And you made me go and listen to 'And Eve Was Weak' again.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 10:26am

"Old people deal with AIDS, too."

exactly......and frankly those of us that have lived the AIDS epidemic since it began can relate to this piece a lot more than those who did not.

[chad2]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 10:27am

rent is dumb. enough said.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 10:36am

You are right, but not everybody feels that way, which is why unfortunately people are now saying it's overrated.

Right, I'm aware of both things -- that not everyone feels that way (I never said they did) and that people feel it's overrated.

There's a lot of similarity here and in the debate about Hair. Last time this came up, though, people were arguing that Hair still had *far* more relevancy than Rent does; probably because of the war context, and it's a little bit more straight forward relevancy.

I'm nineteen and I don't like RENT. Why? Beyond your run of the mill human compassion/sympathy, I don't feel anything for the characters. They're not poor by circumstances outside their control. They CHOOSE not to have jobs (and when Mark gets one, he promptly quits), some of them CHOOSE to do drugs, sucking up the little cash that they do have, and they choose to live contrarty to societal norms. These are not things beyond their control like the events in a well-written tragedy (which would also actually have Mimi die, BTW). They live in a self-created poverty and demand my pity and the pity of others because they are poor.

Is it really about pitying them, though? Is that the purpose? I'm not so sure it is. I think you're, ideally, supposed to connect with and feel for them, but I don't think the main point of the characters (and the show) is to bed for pity. Yes, they're poor, ill, and drug-addicted, but I don't see begging the audience, so to speak, to feel sorry for them is the main concern of the show; I think it *happens* inherently because of the circumstances, but that's not the same. I also don't think it's really a tragedy -- you say it's a bad tragedy because Mimi doesn't die... but maybe it's not a tragedy because of the message that comes out because Mimi *doesn't* die.

Updated On: 5/6/06 at 10:36 AM

[Patronus]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 10:38am

rent is dumb. enough said.

Wow. Thanks for closing the door on the debate, Chad.

[EverythingIsRENT]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 10:43am

Wow, Chad, what a brilliant analysis. You really said it all.

Freeadmission, Maybe it's a matter of perspective, but I don't see the characters as asking for pity, persay...it's more of a, "this is our lifestyle, this is what's going on in our lives, deal with it ,we're not going away!" That was a bad way of putting it but hopefullt you get what I mean. It's not about pity as just acceptance and understanding...

And if someone uses the word "dated" one more time, I will poke out both my eyes.

[jerseyboyslover]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 10:43am

There are more shows out there besides rent.

Why should it matter if someone does not like it? it's fine if some people dont like them same thing you do, it does not change the fact that you like it.

[teebz]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 12:36pm

i don't agree that they're looking for pity.
it think it's more of just presenting to you what they were dealing with and what they had to go through.

everybody here is making really valid points and im loving it.

allofmylife,
yes i do know all those things.
and i've seen a pretty decent amount of plays old and new.
it's just that for some reason rent always hooks me back in.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 12:48pm

I agree with everything Emcee has said - through and through.

And teebz, I feel the same way. Sometimes I don't see RENT for 6 months, or even a year because I'm too busy discovering the new shows that open. I try and catch all the new shows before the Tonys, which I have been doing for the 3 years that I've lived in NYC now. The summer is usually a theatre lull where I can return to my favorites - and it's generally around that time when I start going back to see RENT. It's just a place I feel at home, and I go there to escape.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 12:58pm

I think allofmylife hit the mark.

From my perspective, at least on this board as opposed to adults who see it and ask why don't they just get jobs and pay rent, it has to do with...word choice even. Rent is and always will be one of my favorite shows. But there was a time I would call it the best show ever, which I now don't.

It's certainly not terrible by any means, but there are some flaws--in the direction for instance, and some of the book of act 2. I think many older people get very frustrated when young kids refer to Rent as the best without understanding the rest of theatre.

And of course there's the society cycle that anything that becomes a phenomenon for a phase eventually experiences backlash. People went to see Titanic 5 times in the theatre, and then a year later said it was overplayed.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 1:03pm

Well, you missed the mark more than Michael Bay missed the mark when he made "Pearl Harbor."

[allofmylife]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 1:26pm

BSoBW2 I agree about Pearl Harbor with two tiny caveats. The POV shot of the bomb that is dropped to strike The USS Arizona is an arresting moment and the actual impact of the bomb - when the entire ship lifts up out of the water is an amazing SPFX - as is the way they almost get a performance out of Josh Hartnet.

Anyway,
I personally have nothing against "Rent". I have seen the show a few times and it is very moving. Of course, the tragic, tragic death of the creator permeates the entire experience so greatly. I just can't help wondering what would have happened to the show had Johnathon lived and then I can't help but wonder.... you know where I'm going here....

What I was saying is that there seems to be so much superficiality in the way kids talk about musicals. Did anyone ever describe Alfred Drake as "dreamy"? I just want to help people who use Rent and Wicked as their gateway drug to find that Broadway hasso much more to offer.

Teebz, I am so glad you are not one of the people I was alluding to. I hope you take no offence with anything I may have said.

I'm also very impressed to come across such literate debates on this profession unique. People of all ages here have some very interesting things to say. (And I laughed my ass off at the person who posted a picture of a keyboard with an arrow to the **** key. tHAT wAS fUNNY!!!!)

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 5/6/06 at 1:31pm

Better using them as gateway drugs than seeing them and thinking that's all there is to it -- even though Rent, IMO, has a lot more to it than Wicked does, and is far more substantial. I guess it's cliche to say that's because it's grounded it something that at least *was* a reality, rather than using fantasy to promote that "it's okay to be a misfit" thing, for which there is, I suppose, something to be said.

Yes, it's hard to help but wonder if, had Larson lived, how successful Rent would actually be. But rather than put it in the context of "well, Rent was only successful because Jonathan Larson died and people felt sorry," what about the possibilities that he would've been able to work more on it, and make it even better? Or that Rent would not have been as successful not because it got undeserved success due to his death, but that he would've gone on to write things that were even better; Rent would be his first shot into the spotlight.