lip synching in movie musicals

[eatlasagna]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 5:33pm

So I was watching the Producers here in LA last night (the audience loved it by the way... so did I) and I noticed that the first few songs were poorly lip synched. It really irked me. RENT was slightly better but still off and The Phantom of the Opera was just horrendous to me. Why do most movie musicals suck at their dubbing? It looks so bad sometimes that I can't focus on anything else. When movies have musical sequences with bands and stuff at concerts it looks real (maybe it is, I don't know). But have characters sing songs then it looks ridiculous. Does anyone else think the dubbing is getting sloppy?

[BrendanStryker]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 5:43pm

Some people are just better at it than others. Look at Barbra Streisand. She's horrible at it. I'm not sure why some people find it so difficult to do. Of course, it there is dubbing done after the film is made, then that always looks bad (i.e. MY FAIR LADY). Haven't seen RENT or THE PRODUCERS, so I can't comment on them.

[jonartdesigns]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 5:49pm

no one tops aretha franklin in the blues brothers for bad lip syncing- they tried their damndest to patch together the closest shots that could and it still barely lines up. although i think in the case of rent and the producers its because they sang it live each time and later the recording was added over, so some things may not be in perfect time every take.

[YankeesFan175]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 5:52pm

i actually thought RENT was lip synched pretty well (better than phantom and a few other movies ive seen)


i think all lip synching looks a bit strange b/c its weird to see people singing along during a movie, let alone a full band/orchestra playing along with them.

just my opinion, but i thought RENT was actually lip synched very well.

[guitargeek0624]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 6:08pm

In Phantom of the Opera, "Prima Donna" was horrible. Their lips rarely matched the vocals, if at all. That really bothered me.

[jasobres]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 6:41pm

I don't ever notice it at all. I guess I'm a butthead.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 6:56pm

Perhaps they should have the actors sing before, so they have something to lipsynch to, but then again ALSO after editing has been finished. They can watch themselves and sing to their movement.

[TheatreDiva612]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 7:05pm

Why couldn't they sing it live anyways? Like mark it so at least they get their mouths in the right positions.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 7:05pm

Some performers, like Aretha, are simply too spontaneous to ever be able to stick with the same precise rendition of a song twice. They try, but they're too used to the freedom of live performance. I'm sure many Broadway performers are the same way -- some are better than others.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 7:12pm

I don't get why they can't sing live, then again I'm kind of illiterate when it comes to movies so if someone could explain, please.
Also, I read on a playbill article that Susan Stroman had the cast of The Producers movie sing both live and dubbed and then she could choose what cut she'd like better, but wouldn't this take like years to film then?

[jonartdesigns]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 7:50pm

not really. it would extend production time a bit but not years, more likely a few weeks extra

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:06pm

Rex Harrison insisted on doing all his songs live in the film "My Fair Lady." He said he never talk/sang his numbers the same exact way twice, since it was conversational and very spontaneous approach. I think that's one of the reasons he comes off so well.

On the other hand, Robert Preston did his "patter" songs to a prerecorded playback in Music Man. But he's amazing at it, and you'd be hard-pressed to tell it wasn't done live.

Most people aren't good at it (especially today). It's not easy to do, with everything else you're thinking about while the camera is rolling.

[BrendanStryker]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:10pm

The problem with live singing, is that you have to be even more careful with keeping everything else on and around the set, quiet. It has been done, but very rarely, and never when there is much action happening. The are too many cuts (stops and starts) in filming, and to ensure a perfect match in vocal, it is just best for the actor to sync to a recording. They rarely, if ever, dub the vocal after it's been filmed. They always are syncing to a pre-recorded vocal.

Updated On: 12/20/05 at 08:10 PM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:14pm

I did an industrial this year where I had to lip-synch on film - sometimes to my own singing, sometimes to other people's. We did each take two or three times. It looks fantastic. I don't see what is so hard. If you listen to the recording right before you film, is it so hard to remember 2 seconds later what the vocals are?

[BrendanStryker]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:18pm

I don't understand what is hard about it, either. Striesand says she's bad at it, because it lacks the spontaneity that she prefers. I've always thought that was a crock, as there is absolutely nothing spontaneous about Barbra Streisand. One of the things I hate about her is that every move she makes on screen looks like its been rehearsed about a million times in front of a mirror.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:40pm

If you stay on the notes and on the rhythm exactly, and breathe in the exact pre-determined spots, it isn't hard at all. If you "improvise" with any of those elements in the pre-record, it can be very difficult to match your previous performance.

The people who are improvising the phrasing are more often (than not) the ones who have difficulty lip-syncing. Also, physical activity can skew a performance. If you record something standing still, and then in a filmed take, you're jumping up and down... it's not going to look or sound right. Also, crying through a pre-record is next-to-impossible.

Even Madonna asked that her "dying scene" in Evita be done live. There was no way she was going to be the same emotionally from take to take. It was a wise choice.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:43pm

"If you stay on the notes and on the rhythm exactly, and breathe in the exact pre-determined spots, it isn't hard at all. If you "improvise" with any of those elements in the pre-record, it can be very difficult to match your previous performance."

It should be obvious that you wouldn't do that, knowing you were going to have to lipsynch to it. Or, if you did, that you listen to it enough that you can lipsynch to it exactly.

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:51pm

Judy Garland was great at it. Take a look at "The Man That Got Away" in A STAR IS BORN. She's flawless and it's brilliantly acted too. So is "Over the Rainbow" for that matter and she was a kid! She was the best.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 8:57pm

Judy was definitely one of the best at it, ever.

Rath --- have no idea what you mean by that.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:01pm

Natalie Wood in West Side STory

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:07pm

I mean, why would anyone record some crazy riffs, etc., knowing they have to lipsynch to them later, unless they are prepared to then listen to that recording enough times to be able to lipsynch to it exactly.

[BrendanStryker]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:14pm

Actually, Natalie Wood is not a good example. She did her synching to her own vocals. Marni Nixon gets some credit for matching, after the fact!

[mygfdontliveincanada]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:42pm

The worst ever was the kid who played Oliver in the film version, though I think his job was a bit harder since they had someone else do the singing for him.

What I don't understand is why film producers today can't get the vocals on set. Sound technology has drastically improved over the years, and Kevin Kline recorded all his vocals on set in "De-Lovely," as well as Idina for the "Over the Moon" number in Rent.

If they can do it this way, why don't they?

[Playbill9117]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:44pm

Lip Synching only bothers me when another performer is used for the lip synch track. YOU CAN ALWAYS TELL! It's really kinda funny.

[BrendanStryker]

Posted: 12/20/05 at 9:51pm

liveincanada, see my post above. I've explained why.