Hamilton Tix Horror Story -- Page 2

[bwaybri2]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:14pm

The frustrating thing for me is that my first call is always to group sales - Anthony is the best, by the way - and I was told, "listen, we haven't placed a group order in months to Hamilton and we probably won't be able to place one for the next 6 months to a year".     Obviously, all bets are off when talking about a show like Hamilton (which I saw in October), but it breaks my heart that my students can't see this show.    And by the way our 35 seats were spread out over 4 different shows - 

[Anakela]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:20pm

How did Ticketmaster leave you with the remaining 10 tickets? Do you now have one account with 10 tickets, and the other three accounts were completely cancelled?

Did any of the accounts pay with AmEx? If so I would also try calling them. Not saying that they can/will be able to help, but AmEx has some amazing customer service, that's why I pay a yearly fee. I'd at least try.

[ChiTheaterFan]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:23pm

I'm glad you guys read and try to decipher all the fine print before ordering anything online. I sure don't. I just accidentally bought too many tickets for that November to January period because I didn't see the fine print you have to scroll all the way down the app to find. I had previously checked the ticket limit but it was for a different time period, and I had no idea it changed. So I'm probably going to have the same thing happen to me. (I've tried to preempt having all of them cancelled by contacting them, explaining the error, and specifying which orders I'd like to have cancelled, but we'll see.)

 

The rules are poorly written and hard to find. I wouldn't assume "other identifying information" includes IP address unless it says that. It is within the letter of the rules for different people with different accounts and from different households to all buy tickets from the same computer if each of them does not exceed the limits. I understand ticket master is doing this to try to cut down on scalpers but I don't think the OP did anything that violated the express written policy. In fact, they clearly tried to comply and still didn't. 

 

Ticketmaster could help this by making the policy clear and putting it in a prominent location when you buy tickets. If different people with different accounts can't place orders from the same computer, it should say that. Even that November to January policy is confusing. It says "maximum ticket limit for performances 11/1/16-1/22/17 is 10 tickets per person."  I could see how someone could think that meant it was 10 per show for shows during that time period. 

 

Thats a bit of a non-sequitur but the point is the people who write these things don't do a good job of making them clear.

 

Anyway OP I wish I had a solution to suggest. 

[bwaybri2]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:24pm

All with Visa - yes - our first order of 10 tickets stood - 

[Broadway Forever2]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:24pm

bwaybri2 said: "The frustrating thing for me is that my first call is always to group sales - Anthony is the best, by the way - and I was told, "listen, we haven't placed a group order in months to Hamilton and we probably won't be able to place one for the next 6 months to a year".     Obviously, all bets are off when talking about a show like Hamilton (which I saw in October), but it breaks my heart that my students can't see this show.    And by the way our 35 seats were spread out over 4 different shows - 

 

"

 

I genuinely feel bad for you. I know your students were probably really excited to see it. The show is touring soon so it's possible they can see it maybe in Chicago when it comes to town unfortunately Hamilton seems to be bucking down on scalpers. It's too bad you were affected though.  I would just sell the tickets and maybe try and pay for another show if there's know way Ticketmaster can get you tickets. 

 

[Jallenc32]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:28pm

ChiTheaterFan said: "I'm glad you guys read and try to decipher all the fine print before ordering anything online. I sure don't. "

You're right, most people don't.  But you accepted the terms by making the purchase, and therefore they are binding.

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:30pm

"The rules are poorly written and hard to find. I wouldn't assume "other identifying information" includes IP address unless it says that. It is within the letter of the rules for different people with different accounts and from different households to all buy tickets from the same computer if each of them does not exceed the limits. "

This is industry standard for online purchases. I've worked for several online companies that have routinely been doing the exact same thing for several years. 

It's actually not within the letter or spirit of the rules. The rules are fairly clear. 10 tickets. They bought more. They were trying to work around the rules with technicalities. They weren't doing anything morally wrong and I'm genuinely bummed it didn't work out for them... but Ticketmaster is not in the wrong here. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:33pm

It's not funny, it just the truth....there was no red flag to raise.

 

I agree, it sucks...big time, and while I can understand the OP not realizing that what they did was against policy....that doesn't mean TM isn't within their boundries.

[ChiTheaterFan]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:42pm

I'm not saying they're not within their rights under the terms and conditions. I'm saying its poor customer service to not make those terms and conditions clear. If the ticket limit policy changes, they should make it clear. I already checked the policy last time I bought tickets. You shouldn't have to spend 15 minutes searching the website for every ticket you buy. If you did so, you'd time out on every order. 

 

But that's about me. I broke the rules because I didn't know they'd changed and now I'm trying to remedy it by proactively asking TM to cancel the orders above the limit. On the other hand, I've read the rules and I don't think the OP broke them. Four different people from four different households and separate billing addresses and credit cards each bought tickets within the limits. The rules don't say anything about that. If you read all the boilerplate it's actually within ticketmaster's rights to cancel tickets for any reason without notice, so in a legal standpoint they did nothing wrong. But they still provided poor customer service. 

 

The problem is, for most business, if they provide poor customer service they suffer lost business. That's not true for ticketmaster since if you don't live in NY, it's the only way to get a ticket to Hamilton. And outside of New York it's even worse. At least in NY most shows use telecharge. (Which I've found to have EXCELLENT service by the way.)

[ChiTheaterFan]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:49pm

Also I understand it's "industry standard."  Which is why lawmakers in a number of states are actually trying to fix it. Industry standard is lack of transparency.  And because you have no choices but to abide by terms no one has time to read to shop online, they hold all the power. 

 

Again I'm not saying ticketmaster did anything technically wrong. Just that their customer service sucks (as is true for pretty much the whole online sales industry). 

 

Also I still don't see how four unrelated people each buying 10 tickets is against the rules. It 3 of my friends and I each wanted to take 9 other friends and we all decided to go on the same date, we wouldn't be breaking any rules if all 4 of us each separately bought 10 tickets from our own accounts. The limit is 10 tickets per household. We're all separate households. I wouldn't expect we could all sit together, but I don't see how that breaks ANY written policy.  

[Jallenc32]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:53pm

The single IP address is the problem.  Based on your logic a scalper should be able to go and get 10 prepaid debit cards, register them at different addresses and under different names, and then sit at his computer and buy using 10 different Ticketmaster accounts.

[Hellob]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 2:55pm

Try to contact the cc companies and dispute the cancellation. I don't see how you violated the terms just because of IP address. For example, I could be in a college computer lab and unknowingly there are 10 other students purchasing at the same time. You can all attest that the tickets were legitimately purchased. It's worth a try. I get TM position but I'd still pursue it. 

[ChiTheaterFan]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 3:00pm

Right I get that. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to make it a criteria. What I'm saying is the terms and conditions should say that. If it says it's a per household or per person limit its not clear at all from the language that IP address is the way that's defined since people can share computers/IP addresses (I.e. At work). All they'd have to do is say the ticket limit is per household or per IP address. 

 

Unfortunately I actually don't think IP address is a barrier to scalpers because I think the software they uses generates new IP addresses as well. I really don't know what the solution is other than preventing resale altogether (which of course comes with its own host of difficulties and disadvantages). They're always going to come up with some technical work-around.

[Hellob]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 3:10pm

ChiTheaterFan said: "Right I get that. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to make it a criteria. What I'm saying is the terms and conditions should say that. If it says it's a per household or per person limit its not clear at all from the language that IP address is the way that's defined since people can share computers/IP addresses (I.e. At work). All they'd have to do is say the ticket limit is per household or per IP address. 

 

Unfortunately I actually don't think IP address is a barrier to scalpers because I think the software they uses generates new IP addresses as well. I really don't know what the solution is other than preventing resale altogether (which of course comes with its own host of difficulties and disadvantages). They're always going to come up with some technical work-around.

 

"

Exactly! The fact that the IPs are all the same is evidence that they aren't professionals. I think TM should have called before voiding the sale. Except for the IP, there weren't any other red flags. They could have done a quick search to see if they were listed on SH or something like that. It was an honest mistake. 

[stlrod]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 3:11pm

I don't think you can contact the cc company and dispute cancellation--only a charge.  I feel bad for the OP for trying to do good and play by the rules not knowing what "other information" meant.  I'm sure hearing statements like "you broke the rules" isn't helping him or her more.  For what it's worth, I would contribute to crowd-funding.  While this would sadly help the resellers, I loathe Ticketmaster more. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Updated On: 5/13/16 at 03:11 PM

[Anakela]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 4:13pm

For the OP - this thread is linked to in this NYT story. No comment from Ticketmaster yet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/14/theater/hamilton-takes-steps-to-limit-the-resale-of-its-tickets.html

[Hellob]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 4:44pm

Do you have a "help me Howie" type at your local news station? Do you know a lawyer who can make a call to TM on your behalf and explain how their unclear language is causing a financial penalty for many people? Don't be a Burr, be a Hamilton and get your plan through Congress!

[franch2]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 4:51pm

I'm sure Ticketmaster's terms and conditions are vetted extensively by internal and external counsel and your lawyer friend isn't going to rattle them.

[Hellob]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 4:57pm

franch2 said: "I'm sure Ticketmaster's terms and conditions are vetted extensively by internal and external counsel and your lawyer friend isn't going to rattle them.

 

"

It's not about rattling them, they're a freaking monopoly but sometimes in the interest of good publicity they might be more amenable to changing their minds. She's got a very sympathetic situation, school kids, plane tickets, etcetera. I would try all options before giving up. 

[stlrod]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 4:58pm

Probably even buying them on resale market might not be smart right now.  Based on the article there are likely to be many resellers scrambling with cancelled tickets and unfortunately people who have bought from resellers showing up to find out their tickets are not valid.  Sad for the second group.

[bwayandstuff]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 5:02pm

I just want to check and make sure I'm in the clear here. I know people are saying 10 is the max number, but I've seen other numbers elsewhere. I bought 6 tickets on Wednesday night (3 pairs for 3 different shows). These tickets are for friends who have been trying forever to see the show and couldn't get their hands on a reasonably priced ticket. With that being said, I want to make sure that I didn't break any rules and my tickets aren't going to disappear on me. 

Updated On: 5/13/16 at 05:02 PM

[aaaaaa15]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 5:03pm

Oh jeez I didn't even think about that. Hopefully they hadn't managed to resell that many for that time period as most people buy resale tickets for close to the time that they buy.

[ChiTheaterFan]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 5:15pm

bwayandstuff said: "I just want to check and make sure I'm in the clear here. I know people are saying 10 is the max number, but I've seen other numbers elsewhere. I bought 6 tickets on Wednesday night (3 pairs for 3 different shows). These tickets are for friends who have been trying forever to see the show and couldn't get their hands on a reasonably priced ticket. With that being said, I want to make sure that I didn't break any rules and my tickets aren't going to disappear on me. 

 

"

You should be fine. The limit was 14 tickets over 7 days and for some future shows its 10 for the entire time period. If you go to ticketmaster and go to the date you bought tickets and click under "ticket limit" it will tell you what the limit is for that specific show. (As I've now learned, it changes!  So go to the date you're buying tickets, not just any date.). But 10 in the three or so month period from November to January is the lowest limit I've seen. 

 

I sent ticketmaster an email specifying which tickets I wanted to cancel since I didn't know the ticket limits changed and accidentally bought too many. I tried to call but couldn't get through. I'll be fine if they cancel the ones above the limit (although I'll have some disappointed friends who were planning to go on some of the dates) but I just hope they don't cancel them all since it was an innocent mistake. 

 

Interestingly, even the NYT says the limit is 14 tickets over 7 days!  It's really unclear that you have to check on a performance by performance basis. 

[bwayandstuff]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 5:21pm

Thank you for the reassurance! I wouldn't think I'd have a problem. I just sent an email to be safe, especially since I've already told the people who the tickets were purchased for that they're going to see Hamilton. 

[sarahb22]

Posted: 5/13/16 at 5:28pm

ChiTheaterFan said: "Unfortunately I actually don't think IP address is a barrier to scalpers because I think the software they uses generates new IP addresses as well. I really don't know what the solution is other than preventing resale altogether (which of course comes with its own host of difficulties and disadvantages). They're always going to come up with some technical work-around."

And that's the saddest part. The scalpers already know how to game the system, and I'll bet you that not a lot of "professional" scalpers lost their tickets - only the innocent people like the OP who just didn't know what they were doing was "illegal" and didn't know how to game the system.

When I checked the Ticketmaster maps for December and January dates there were still lots of blocks of "fan-to-fan" (scalper) seats available.  And those jerks are the ones who scooped up all of the available tickets lost by honest folk in this last 'purge' and are now...yup...scalping them.  It's infuriating.