2019/20 season shaping to be another jukebox season- Page 2

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/1/19 at 9:40pm

delete

 

Updated On: 5/1/19 at 09:40 PM

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/1/19 at 9:56pm

Something Pecuilar, I think you missed my point about “original material and / obscure references.”

It fits some of those for sure, but Bridges/Pyscho are well known, the others rely on a musician’s name to sell, etc.

I mean sure it’s all a gamble, but just surprised we haven’t seen an influx in new, interesting musicals. At least at the regional level.

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 5/1/19 at 10:00pm

Could you say that, although Jukebox musicals are a safer investment and have a higher hit ratio than original musicals, only the latter, although riskier, can lift you to the highest highs?

Carousel, South Pacific, West Side Story, Company, Sunday in the Park, Ragtime, Gypsy, La Cage aux Folles, Cabaret, Book of Mormon, Hamilton.

Are there jukebox musicals that you would feel comfortable including in this group?

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/1/19 at 10:23pm

I mean Jersey Boys and Mamma Mia are the templates, I’d say, for their respective areas: bio musical or true jukebox.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 5/1/19 at 10:39pm

I think Jagged Little Pill isn't a jukebox musical. It's a concept album musical. The story is original and they're using Alanis Morrissette's concept album to fill in the musical blanks.

Hadestown could also be called a concept album musical. The Mitchell album was written in 2010. The album was worked into a musical. 

I'd say the same almost about Moulin Rouge. They;re using a variety of songs but all to fill an original story concept, just as the movie did.

Jukebox musicals are musicals that use a famous singer/group's music as a backdrop for said singer/group's life story. Jersey Boys, The Cher Show, Ain't Too Proud to Beg, Beautiful are IMO the true jukebox musicals.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/1/19 at 11:36pm

@poisonivy your definition of jukebox musical is not the accepted one. Mamma Mia et al are considered jukebox, and they have the defects that make jukeboxes undesirable as an art form. I do believe that there are things that are, as you describe, concept album musicals, but those are few.

[bear88]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 1:54am

HogansHero said: "threemain factors account for the high volume of jukebox musicals. 1. They come with easy money. 2. They come with a built in audience. 3. Producers still do not see very much really good material. It's this last factor that controls. If material that is both good and that people are interested in materialized in volume, the money would follow. (It's not like the track record of the jukeboxes is especially good overall, but you can't sell something that no one wants to buy.)

I agree that 3 is probably the most important factor. Writing an excellent score that has a chance of succeeding commercially on Broadway is really difficult. Lin-Manuel Mirandas - who have the songwriting chops and knowlege of musical theater to pull it off - don't grow on trees, and he's only written two shows. Someone like Dave Malloy is capable of writing great songs, which is why I loved the score to Great Comet, but he gravitates away from writing commercial material (which is one reason why some people don't like Great Comet). And as much as I loved it, that show was a commerical failure. So many scores, even for successful shows, are just OK. And it's hard to please everyone anyway. So when in doubt, go with the tried and true, songs a producer knows a decent percentage of the population already likes. I can't really blame them. You won't revolutionize the art form, but you also won't lose your investors a mint. 

The new musical on Broadway with the best score is Ain't Too Proud, with its collection of legendary Motown composers. It's flawed and unsatisfying as theater, but it succeeds well enough as entertainment because you're basically watching a slick, Broadway version of The Temptations interrupted by a lot of narration. And it's a big hit thus far, because the performances and choreography are great fun in the moment. 

Why wouldn't producers try to replicate that formula with the talented Broadway performers around today? I can't blame them. It's just not very exciting. 

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 2:16am

RippedMan said: "I do wonder why producers aren't taking more chances on original works when all the successes of the past few seasons have been original or obscure references like Fun Home, The Band's Visit, Hamilton, Dear Evan Hansen, Book of Mormon, Spelling Bee, etc."

Well, those shows are all from established composers/teams. Maybe no one like that has anything ready to come in yet and they're too scared to take a chance on an untested composer (for every Sara Bareilles and Anais Mitchell and the team behind Come From Away, there's an Eddie Perfect or Jay Kuo (Allegiance) or the team behind Getting the Band Back Together). 

I'm excited for Moulin Rouge and hopeful about Tina because of Adrienne. Reserving judgment on the others but I agree that it's good that at least they're not all biomusicals. 

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 2:36am

OlBlueEyes said: "Could you say that, although Jukebox musicals are a safer investment and have a higher hit ratio than original musicals, only the latter, although riskier, can lift you to the highest highs?

Carousel, South Pacific, West Side Story, Company, Sunday in the Park, Ragtime, Gypsy, La Cage aux Folles, Cabaret, Book of Mormon, Hamilton.

Are there jukebox musicals that you would feel comfortable including in this group?"

My top jukebox musicals would include Mamma Mia, The Marvelous Wonderettes, Good Vibrations, and After Midnight. So, no. But they all stuck with me longer than some lesser original musicals. As entertaining spectacles and sometimes sentimental schmaltz, I think jukebox musicals can do the job on par with similar original musicals. I think a big problem is that with popular music, you're usually hampered by a lack of specificity in the individual songs and a general lack of coherence when you try to force songs from someone's general catalogue into a narrative structure. There are artists I can think of with good singles but it starts to fall apart when I try to fit those songs into a story that doesn't end up with too many love songs, ballads, etc. But with the right artist and the right creative team it could work. I don't think it sounds like a great idea so far but in general, the Max Martin musical is appealing because there's greater variety in choosing songs. Maybe we'll get a Jack Antonoff or Mark Ronson musical at some point. 

Random question: Do you count An American in Paris as a jukebox musical? 

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 7:25am

HogansHero said: "@poisonivy your definition of jukebox musical is not the accepted one. Mamma Mia et al are consideredjukebox, and they have the defects that make jukeboxes undesirable as an art form. I do believe that there are things that are, as you describe, concept album musicals, but those are few."

I agree here but wouldn't Jagged Little Pill still fall under the concept album musical category? 

[mailhandler777]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 9:08am

barcelona20 said: "It's the best show I've ever seen too and I've been seeing shows for 26yrs. What is best to that person doesn't have to be best for you obviously. Its subjective."

You clearly need to see more shows then."

Why? It's my opinion as it's the OPs opinion. 

[barcelona20]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 9:43am

mailhandler777 said: "barcelona20 said: "It's the best show I've ever seen too and I've been seeing shows for 26yrs. What is best to that person doesn't have to be best for you obviously. Its subjective."

You clearly need to see more shows then."

Why? It's my opinion as it's the OPs opinion."

Because it's insanity.

[OKBroadwayFan]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 9:48am

barcelona20 said: "mailhandler777 said: "barcelona20 said: "It's the best show I've ever seen too and I've been seeing shows for 26yrs. What is best to that person doesn't have to be best for you obviously. Its subjective."

You clearly need to see more shows then."

Why? It's my opinion as it's the OPs opinion."

Because it's insanity."

Barcelona---What is the best musical(s) you have ever seen?

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 9:50am

barcelona20 said: "mailhandler777 said: "barcelona20 said: "It's the best show I've ever seen too and I've been seeing shows for 26yrs. What is best to that person doesn't have to be best for you obviously. Its subjective."

You clearly need to see more shows then."

Why? It's my opinion as it's the OPs opinion."

Because it's insanity."

And, what're your favorite shows? 

[barcelona20]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 10:13am

Fair question.  Here are a few favorites.

Avenue Q, Pippin, The Light in the Piazza, Hedwig, Hamilton, Passing Strange, Sweeney Todd, Into the Woods, Hairspray, The Last Five Years, Cabaret

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 10:27am

barcelona20 said: "Fair question. Here are a few favorites.

Avenue Q, Pippin, The Light in the Piazza, Hedwig, Hamilton, Passing Strange, Sweeney Todd, Into the Woods, Hairspray, The Last Five Years, Cabaret"

I hated Pippin, you're insane. 

[barcelona20]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 10:42am

Mike Barrett said: "barcelona20 said: "Fair question. Here are a few favorites.

Avenue Q, Pippin, The Light in the Piazza, Hedwig, Hamilton, Passing Strange, Sweeney Todd, Into the Woods, Hairspray, The Last Five Years, Cabaret"

I hated Pippin, you're insane."

You're in the minority. Sorry. And even if you hated the show, you have to respect the score at least.

Updated On: 5/2/19 at 10:42 AM

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 10:46am

barcelona20 said: "Mike Barrett said: "barcelona20 said: "Fair question. Here are a few favorites.

Avenue Q, Pippin, The Light in the Piazza, Hedwig, Hamilton, Passing Strange, Sweeney Todd, Into the Woods, Hairspray, The Last Five Years, Cabaret"

I hated Pippin, you're insane."

You're in the minority. Sorry. And even if you hated the show, you have to respect the score at least."

See how others can have other opinions? Not how you respond above when you called someone else insane for liking a show, just let others have an opinion and respond more like you just did instead of calling others insane, I was only mocking you. 

[barcelona20]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 10:52am

And I'm just mocking them too. Everyone be so serioussssss

[YvanEhtNioj]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 10:56am

I agree with what someone said earlier: 

I dont care if it's jukebox, a "concept album musical", based on a book, based on a movie, etc.. If it's good, it's good. I'd rather have new and fresh shows on Broadway based on existing properties than have the same "meh" shows play for 4-6+ years. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 11:05am

@bear88 I agree with the thrust of what you say. To me, the problem borders on the existential, and is beyond any one producer to cure. It's institutional and the solution is going to require a mindset change in which the best writers become interested in writing for the stage in the first instance. We have that now only at the margins and (recently) the extreme margins. 

@MikeBarrett yes, I didn't mean to suggest JLP could not fall within that category. 

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 11:47am

Vintage Snarker said:

 Random question: Do you count An American in Paris as a jukebox musical? 

Tricky question. To associate "Gershwin" and "jukebox" seems like heresy. 

First, the musical is based on the film. Have any jukebox musicals been based on films?

Gershwin began his career writing pop vocals, most for Broadway musicals. As he progressed he grew increasingly interested in orchestral music, although he had not stopped writing tunes for musicals at the time of his death. Many of his pop standards were included in the MGM musical, but alongside a number of his standalone orchestral pieces. Concerto in F, I think, as well as the title piece, which had been written before the film.

So I have to weasel that the film is a sort of hybrid. A half dozen of Gershwin's most popular hit songs augmented by two orchestral pieces, including "An American in Paris" to which the concluding ballet is performed. Orchestral pieces are anathema to jukebox musicals. The "Concerto in F" is also added to the musical.

I call it an original musical (putting the film to one side) since the plot, such as it is, is not connected with the songwriters and orchestral pieces are prominent, especially "An American in Paris" for the concluding ballet

Do you have any easier questions?

Updated On: 5/3/19 at 11:47 AM

[Lot666]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 1:30pm

barcelona20 said: "It's the best show I've ever seen too and I've been seeing shows for 26yrs. What is best to that person doesn't have to be best for you obviously. Its subjective."

You clearly need to see more shows then."

You clearly need to be less of a d!ck then.

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 1:38pm

barcelona20 said: "And I'm just mocking them too. Everyone be so serioussssss"

No, you're just rude. 

[barcelona20]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 1:59pm

Lot666 said: "barcelona20 said: "It's the best show I've ever seen too and I've been seeing shows for 26yrs. What is best to that person doesn't have to be best for you obviously. Its subjective."

You clearly need to see more shows then."

You clearly need to be less of a d!ck then."

Aww, how sweet of you to say!  ps. it's still insane to believe that out of all the musicals ever created, that JLP is the best show ever seen.  Everyone can have an opinion, but that doesn't make them correct.