Why does Elphie melt???- Page 2

[Mythus]

Posted: 4/19/05 at 8:28pm

I heard her soul is so unclean, pure water can melt her! What? Melt her! I don't know why I like that part so much.

[Sporkie]

Posted: 4/19/05 at 8:36pm

Omigawsh...A sequel to Wicked, the book! I'm so excited. Oh, man! I'm not that fornd of sequel musicals in general though.

[Act4ever]

Posted: 4/19/05 at 8:41pm

*** S P O I L E R ***

So... there is a scene where Fiyero says to Elphie to go hide in his castle in Kiamo Ko, they never stay there, but that are a lot of tunnels and secret passage ways to hide. Then, when all the rumors start circulating about Elphie she decides that the only way to save her self is to fake her death by means of a fake rumor. "Pure Water will melt her" Then she disappears into one of the castles secret passage ways (ie. trap door) and then, well, you know the rest.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 4/19/05 at 8:58pm

Thenadier: Her soul is unclean, etc. is what people are saying ABOUT her. It's not true - it's gossip.

[renthead2005z]

Posted: 4/19/05 at 10:10pm

thank you...i mean people are taking one quote from a musical out of context and making it seem like it means something else...her soul so unclean is just a rumor...people are saying that bcz she is green. That is why fiyero gets so mad.

[meagan9848]

Posted: 4/19/05 at 11:16pm

to me the line was not included to add to the plot, but for a simple laugh. Everyone knows that the Wicked Witch melts in the movie...so it rains, she says you must not get wet and immediately covers her with an umbrella, audience goes ha ha ha. I don't think anyone that had not read the book expects Elphaba to live at the end of the show.

[Dreamcatcher]

Posted: 4/19/05 at 11:45pm

Yes in the book as a baby it kept saying how she would try to avoid baths and water at all costs and as an adult her tears would burn her face and so on so she was indeed allergic to water. As someone else said, the reason behind that being that she was so unpure herself that only something as pure and clean as water could destroy her. I haven't seen the show myself so I was a bit confused about the whole thing until now but yeah, I guess they put the water thing in there as false gossip among the people of Oz to try to stay true to the book and movie but didn't make it real because of the ending.

[MissMommy]

Posted: 4/20/05 at 12:03am

Okay, I get that she doesn't melt, and it's all part of the plan for her and Fiyero/Scarecrow to escape, but then please help me understand all the rest of what occurs between Scarecrow and Wicked Witch in movie Wizard of Oz? Was all the "play with fire" just "part of the plan" to throw Dorothy and everyone off the track that they're in love and someday going to maneuver this elaborate capture/bucket/trap-door escape thingie?

[Dreamcatcher]

Posted: 4/20/05 at 12:09am

No in the movie the Wicked Witch dies, the scarecrow dies etc and all that. The book was written after the movie was made, elaborating on the characters and even then Fiyero dies and never becomes the scarecrow (as far as I know) and Elphie does die as well. The show was adapted loosly on the book and in the show they decided to keep them both alive, having Elphie come back and Fiyero be the scarecrow. I think it was a way to tie to story from the book and the story from the movie together in a more time effective manner.

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 4/20/05 at 12:26am

Ok it's been a while since i read the book but lemme try to explain simply
BOOK: She IS allergic to water...she dies/you really never know if Fiyero is the scarecrow cuz they leave it kinda blurry
MUSICAL: She ISN'T allergic to water..it's pure rumor-uses the benefit of the rumor to get away and live her life peaceful w/ fiyero/scarecrow

feel free to argue taht..that's what I think

[Dreamcatcher]

Posted: 4/20/05 at 12:31am

Yes I agree Stephaniethestar. That's pretty much what I always thought as well.

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 4/20/05 at 12:42am

yeah..you really have to separate the book, the musical, and the movie..they are all quite different.."BASED ON" doesn't mean=IS

[Dreamcatcher]

Posted: 4/20/05 at 12:47am

Yeah they say the musical is based on the book and movie obviously but the truth is that its only based on them in the vaguest sense of the word. It is in the sense that they took the most general of information, characters, background etc from both the book and the movie but other than that, the plotline differs greatly.

[TGIF]

Posted: 4/20/05 at 1:47am

Wow, why is this so confusing to people?

Book: For what ever reason, she never touches water. At the end she supposedly "metls" or "dies" but they threw in the "Did she ever return? -- Not yet..." (or something along those lines). So it leaves things open to what you want to believe.

Musical: Added melting referenes for jokes. Rumors started - extra eye, will melt, etc. She uses the rumor to escape. Fakes her death.


Why is that so complicated?

[Sant]

Posted: 4/20/05 at 9:04am

TGIF, exactly.

"Must not get wet" -line is there for laughs because people immediately think that she will melt. When actually it's "must not get wet""(because you will get a cold)"...

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 4/20/05 at 11:30am

I still think she dies in the book...though I believe it says "has she ever come out (of a cave i think)?" "not yet"

I'm too lazy to go get my book...:)

[AndiV]

Posted: 4/20/05 at 12:16pm

i always thought she melted in the book...but this has gotten me intrigued...i'll have to read it again!!

[Thenardier]

Posted: 4/20/05 at 12:46pm

"Thenadier: Her soul is unclean, etc. is what people are saying ABOUT her. It's not true - it's gossip. "

Munk -

I know this. That is why when she IS hit with water she doesn't melt. We are lead to believe she will melt by thi piece of gossip.

[InfiniteGirl]

Posted: 4/28/05 at 4:36pm

In my opinion (and who really cares about that?), if you're saying this is the story about what happened before (and after) Dorothy dropped into Oz, you should honor the truth of what happened, as we know it, while Dorothy was in Oz. If you start undoing what came before (or ignore it altogether), that's just cheating.

This is a musical based on (and capitlizing on!!) iconic material.

To really be clever and satisfying, it would need to be true to it's source material - so you could go watch (or read, pick a source any souce) The Wizard of Oz, and find all the seeds every-so-deftly laid in Wicked.

I think the show is a big, glitzy, techno-Vegas fun-fest, but story-wise, it's a cheap and easy disappointment to the Oz-tales that precede it.

BTW, if you like Oz - read L. Frank's other 13 books - Scarecrow, Tin-Man, and the rest got nothing on Tik-Tok, H.M. Wogglebug, Ozma, Pip, and co!

[Wax Lion]

Posted: 4/28/05 at 5:03pm

Wax Lion says that if he gets near anything above 120 degrees fahrenheit, he melts. Maybe that's why she melted?

Love,
Wax Lion

[cathyhyatt]

Posted: 4/28/05 at 5:43pm

I'm sorry but I find this question to be just plain dumb. I mean haven't you ever seen the wizard of oz?

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 4/28/05 at 9:11pm

cathy--the musical wicked and the movie "the wizard of oz" are very different works...

"Wicked" is based on the book "Wicked: the life and times ofthe wicked witch of the west" which is based on "the wizard of oz" and Baum's novels. Based on something based on something else makes it quite different.

[Aigoo]

Posted: 4/28/05 at 9:17pm

She DOES melt in the book. MacGuire sort of manages to make the end of the book the end of the movie as well.

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 4/29/05 at 10:13am

Aigoo--in my previous posts in this topic I agree..she melts in the book.

She doesn't melt in the show though (obviously)because she is NOT "allergic" to water in the show.

[Justice]

Posted: 4/29/05 at 10:54am

Clarification:

The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum:

"You are a wicked creature!" cried Dorothy. "You have no right to take my shoe from me."
"I shall keep it just the same", said the witch, laughing at her, "and some day I shall get the other one from you, too."
This made Dorothy so very angry, that she picked up a bucket of water that stood near and dashed it over the Witch, wetting her from head to foot.
Instantly, the wicked woman gave a loud cry of fear, and then, as Dorothy looked at her in wonder, the Witch began to shrink and fall away.
"See what you have done!" she screamed. "In a minute I shall melt away!"
"I'm very sorry, indeed," said Dorothy, who was truly frightened to see the Witch actually melting away like brown sugar before her very eyes.
"Didn't you know water would be the end of me?" asked the Witch, in a wailing, despairing voice.
"Of course not", answered Dorothy. "How should I?"
"Well, in a few minutes I shall be all melted, and you will have the castle to yourself. I have been wicked in my day, but I never thought a little girl like you would ever be able to melt me and end my wicked deeds. Look out - here I go!"
With these words the Witch fell down in a brown, melted, shapeless mass and began to spread over the clean boards of the kitchen floor. Seeing that she had really melted away to nothing, Dorothy drew another bucket of water, and threw it over the mess. She then swept it all out the door.


The Wizard of Oz film:

The witch lights the scarecrow on fire. Dorothy, to save him, throws a bucket of water on him, splashign the witch in the face. She screams.

Witch: Oh, you cursed brat! Look what you've done! I'm melting! Melting! Oh - What a world! What a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness? Ooh...Look out! Look out! I'm going...Ohhh...

SHE DOES NOT MELT!
Melting would involve luiquidating.
She evaporates.

Wicked; Teh Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West by Gregory Maguire:
(After a piece of the burning broom falls on Elphaba's dress)

"Oh, will this nightmare ever end," screamed Dorothy, and she grabbed a bucket for collecting rainwater that, in a sudden flare up of light, had come into view. She said "I will save you!" and she hurled the water at the witch.
An instant of sharp pain before the numbness. The world was floods above and fire below. If there was such a thing as a soul, the soul had gambled on a sort of baptism, and had it won?
The body apologizes to the soul for its errors, and the soul asks forgiveness for squatting in the body without invitation.
A ring of expectant faces before the light dims; they move in the shadows like ghouls. There is Mama, playing with her hair, there is Nessarose, stern and bleached as weathered timber. There is Papa, lost in his reflections, looking for himself in the faces of the suspicious heathen. There si Shell, not quite yet himself despite his apparent wholeness.
They become others; they become Nanny in her prime, tart and officious; and Ama Clutch and Ama Vimp and the othe Amas, lumped together now in a maternal blur. They become Boq, sweet and lithe and earnest, yet unbowed; and Crope and Tibbett in their funny, campy anxiety to be liked: and Averic in his superiority. And Glinda in her gowns, waiting to be good enough to deserve what she gets.

...skip...

And of the Witch? In the life of the Witch, there is no after, in the ever after of a Witch, there is no happily; in the story of a Witch, there is no afterword. Of that part that is beyond the lifestory, beyond the story of life, there is - alas, or perhaps thank mercy- no telling. She was dead, dead and gone, and all that was left of her was the carapace of her reputation for malice.

"And there the Wicked Witch stayed for a long time."
"And did she ever come out?"
"Not yet"


Wicked: The Musical:

Many a foreshadowing takes place: in "Thank Goodness"

Fiyero: Do you hear that? Water will MELT HER??? People are so empty heade, they'll believe anything.

"As Long As Your Mine"
Fiyero tells Elphaba to hide out in his castle, where there are many tunnels and hidded passages.

Therefore...in the musical - She does not melt. She goes to another world, where no one can harm them.


P.S.
In the book it is QUITE clear that Fiyero is NOT the Scarecrow.
Also, the original book, the MGM film, Maguire's book, and the musical are ALL very different pieces of work. None of the latter three stay true to the actual story by L. Frank Baum, nor do any of the others stay true to each other.

Updated On: 4/29/05 at 10:54 AM