Why didn't Caroline, or Change work?- Page 2

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 11:45am

Caroline has tied the top spot with Sweeney Todd as my favorite musical. It is simply a masterpiece in my opinion. The buzz on the show Off-Broadway and the ad artwork attracted me to the show. I is ashame that they had to make caroline look "perkier" to try to sell seats. Just says a lot about todays theatregoers. I really think that the "Phantom"/"Cats" era and Disney have groomed theatregoers into wanting spectacle and something they are familiar with. I much prefer a show that makes me think or sparks conversation after the show other than "Loved the chandelier" or "Loved the bubble thing she entered on". I enjoyed "Wicked" and "Phantom" but I also need shows like "Caroline". I also agree that they picked the wrong song for the Tony's but I think they were thinking that it was like another "Rose's Turn". What I read is that Tonya didn't want to do it but they insisted. And Tonya was under the weather the night of the Tony's, which didn't help. I can remember thinking, why waste the "Radio" girls on the opening to the show, why not feature them during the number from the show. JMO

[roquat]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 1:45pm

Why didn't it work?

The absence of a single memorable song, plus the fact that it was about a despairing, resigned black woman. Broadway audiences like their black musicals uplifting.

I'm getting a little tired of this "blame the audience" mentality. If a show is good, it'll have a life SOMEWHERE, even if in regional theatres (which can't produce the big spectacles anyway). PASSION and LaChuisa's WILD PARTY haven't really made that transition. Why? They AREN'T GOOD.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 1:53pm

"Why do they need to leave the theatre humming "Lot's Wife?" They don't."

When people go to a musical, they usually expect to leave the theater humming something. The greatness of Sondheim is that he can make social statements while sending the audience away humming one of his tunes (except for that crappy "Passion").

The new crop of composers can't seem to grasp the fact that their shows would do better if they left their audience with a musical remnant.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 2:09pm

um...that is one of Sondheim's main criticism's...that you dont leave humming his songs. Especially the tourists.

That second poster made me laugh...Caroline NEVER smiled in the show like that.

I love the original poster, and the show, but it was Pinkins' performance on the Tony awards that made me unsure. I didn't love her as much as most...even after seeing the show.

[gonnapassmealaw]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 2:25pm

"I'm getting a little tired of this "blame the audience" mentality. If a show is good, it'll have a life SOMEWHERE, even if in regional theatres"

Ah, Caroline has been recieving well recieved and attended shows regionally. I saw a production in DC that was very well recieved and the current London production is being lauded by most reviewers and audience member.

London Critics said:
NICOLAS DE JONGH for THE EVENING STANDARD: "Caroline, Or Change turns out, therefore, to be a quaintly charming musical, beautifully acted."

MICHAEL BILLINGTON for THE GUARDIAN: "A remarkable musical...the real joy lies in finding a musical that combines compassion with social awareness." CHARLES SPENCER for THE DAILY TELEGRAPH says, "Amazing piece of music-theatre...Kushner's great achievement is to make the political personal in a work that combines great dramatic intensity with wild flights of fantasy and music of thrilling variety and strength...Tonya Pinkins is simply sensational in the title role"

BENEDICT NIGHTINGALE for THE TIMES: "Tesori’s score, which embraces Afro-American and Jewish music, rock and blues and gospel, does help to give the evening the size and significance it’s in danger of lacking."

ALEKS SIERZ for THE STAGE: "Enjoyable to watch and highly emotional."

PAUL TAYLOR for THE INDEPENDENT: "The staging by George C Wolfe is a pictorial joy. Caroline, or Change makes a delightful change from the usual no-brainer musical."

[Gothampc]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 2:45pm

"um...that is one of Sondheim's main criticism's...that you dont leave humming his songs. Especially the tourists."

I don't buy into that criticism. Yes, Sondheim is difficult to hum musically, but you still leave the theater with the music in your mind.

Maybe the terminology should be changed. Instead of "hummable" maybe I should be speaking in terms of a song that the audience can "warm" to. In all of Sondheim's work, there is something musically that the audience warms to. Whether it be "Send in the Clowns" "Nothing's Gonna Harm You" "Being Alive" or "Children Will Listen" somehow the audience connects with the music. I didn't find this connection in "Caroline or Change".

[gonnapassmealaw]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 3:00pm

Into the Woods- Infectious.

Passion- Not so much.

Sondheim runs the gamut of audience like-ability.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 3:02pm

I'm one who is always astounded and inspired by what I hear and leave with from a Sondheim show.

I dont believe the general public feels that way or "warms" to his music or lyrics.

It's a shame, but I believe it's true.

[bobby_luvs_bway]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 3:12pm

I loved Caroline. LOVED IT. I think all of the reasons people have mentioned are all valid as to why it couldn't really find it's audience, but we have to also look at how we view black women in this country. What "we" find acceptable. Racism is very much alive. Maybe not as obvious as in some places, but that subtle liberal racism can be worse. A strong-willed opinionated black woman is very scary to some folks, especially when she draws their attention to their own hidden judgements about people and the roles they are "supposed" to play in our society.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 3:17pm

Excellent, Bobby.

I dont think it's because audiences didnt "get it", but that audiences didnt want to look at it.

[devonian.t]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 3:19pm

I was visiting NYC during the run of the show. I happened to catch Broadway in the Alley, and was choosing which show to see that same afternoon. I see A LOT, and in that same trip I think I saw 4 or 5 other shows. I considered 'Caroline', but it had no real compelling attraction above other options.

I heard the girls sing the final trio from the show in the Alley, and ironically saw the Little Shop trio too, and I think I thought- 'ho hum, nothing new there'- it failed to capture even an interested party like me.

I have since seen the show in London, and I have to disagree with the earlier poster- I don't think this will still be around in 30 years time: it feels like a work that PRECEDES a landmark show.

[Fridmanlam]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 10:55pm

I disagree, I'm probably one of the few so my opion is the minority, but I thought there were some beautiful and "hummable" melodies in the show. It is very melodic in its ideas, however the places that the songs occur are not in places that an audience will remember. It's not your average show, so one can't expect average results.

The other thing I thought of that made me NOT interested in seeing it was the concepts of the singing washing machine, radio, moon etc... After seeing it I enjoyed it, but before I thought it was going to be stupid and completely a bad piece of performance art. I guess you can't judge a book by its cover. It is a show that those who worked on should be very proud of, for it is truely a glorious piece of art, and has made its mark in theatre history.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 11:15pm

First of all, great thread.

Second of all, I LOVE "Caroline," I think it's the best musical of the decade.

But the question was "why doesn't it work," and as far as commercial success is concerned, it didn't.

To answer this question, great theatre doesn't often work.

It really all depends on how you feel about what Tony Kushner has to say.

Most people were affected by "Angels in America."

I loved "Angels," and I also loved "Caroline." But as far as I'm concerned, Kushner's brilliant work was "Homebody/Kabul."

So why didn't "Caroline" work?

I can't say for sure. But here's my opinion. "Angels" and "Caroline" are very, very personal pieces of theatre.

I think Kushner is a genius. But his most brilliant play was something that he had no personal knowledge of.

I'm just saying.

[ruthiefan_felix]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 5:04am

I think Dot's song when she was saying she's got a boyfriend and then Caroline shouts back... that bit's tunes were quite catching and to me would've been a better choice for the Tonys anyway.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 7:35am

Too much leaden allegorical clutter in the first third of the show that diverted attention away from Caroline. And the muddiest sound system on Broadway.

This show would benefit enormously from judicious editing and re-staging in a stripped down version.

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 10:55am

Caroline, or Change isn't a show that you can just pluck a song out of and perform it. It just doesn't work, which is a problem when trying to promote the show. The show has very few "applause beats" where the music stops and then continues. I think they should have performed "I Hate The Bus" along with a few other songs and then ended with "Lot's Wife." "I Hate The Bus" is very hummable and hauntingly beautiful. The show has many "hummable" tunes, just not one song that stands out because Tesori doesn't reprise the same f**in melody 10x like some people :cough: ALW :cough:

[LostLeander]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 1:53pm

Caroline worked very well, I'd say.

And any writer who pens the lyric, "And hell's where Jews go when they die" probably knows that the show is not meant for mass wide spread appeal.

It's an intimate show, and it reached a lot of people, just not as many as Wicked.

I think there's a lot of self examination, and not a whole lot of plot, which is hard for some theatre goers to watch, and they tend to disconnect. I was extremely moved and involved, even though there isn't a whole lot of plot.

The music is great, and I absolutely do not understand the "hummable" statement.

The music is rangy, and captures ALOT of different styles, but there are some wonderfully catchy musical passages. Perhaps the lyrics are a bit too metaphoric and recitative-ish to be memorable.

But I left the theatre affected, and thought provoked.

Updated On: 11/21/06 at 01:53 PM

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 4:32pm

Lousy writing and an amateur score of no appeal or emotional payoff.






Mama Tiny
Slinging hash south of the Mason-Dixon line

[gonnapassmealaw]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 4:40pm

You're right, Leander, it isn't really plot heavy. It centers on these small (and large) moments in the everyday life of a maid. In these moments come these leviathan metaphoric themes that are so huge that they are unbeknownst to Caroline herself. Sure she notices the change happening in the world and the children, but she cannot see the change happening within herself.

Caroline, or Change through it's intense and introspective score challenges the viewer to transcend beyond a "theatrical experience" and into the "human experience." This "human experience" wittily juxtaposed with the anthromorphic Moon, Radio, Washer and Bus.

Frankly, I like my theatre challenging.

[bobby_luvs_bway]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 4:46pm

Brilliantly put Leander and Gonnapassmealaw. It's been a while and I still can't stop listening to the cd. It was a heartwrenching performance in a beautifully challenging musical.

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 4:50pm

Well, most theater isn't action oriented. That's what makes theater different from the movies. We don't have epic battles on stage, it's a different type of artform.

[gonnapassmealaw]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 4:56pm

But at most shows of the new millenium spectacle has taken a forefrunt to story, plot development, and book.

[TheaterBoy7777]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 6:32pm

I think it is because everyone, I mean tourist, doesn't want to see something that is not Disney or a movie made into a musical. It scares them when they havent heard of something before. Or it might just be that it was too amazing and people couldnt handle that. I can't wait until it is revived in like 10-15 years.

[TheaterBoy7777]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 6:32pm

I think it is because everyone, I mean tourist, doesn't want to see something that is not Disney or a movie made into a musical. It scares them when they havent heard of something before. Or it might just be that it was too amazing and people couldnt handle that. I can't wait until it is revived in like 10-15 years.

[Heybeenfood]

Posted: 11/21/06 at 6:50pm

I don't think the question was why it didn't "work" as much as why has it succeeded out of town and not in New York.