Why didn't Caroline, or Change work?

[Monty Cole]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 1:48pm

I don't understand this. It goes to D.C. and people love it. It's at the National in London and people are eating it up over there. Why didn't Caroline, or Change work on broadway?

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 2:01pm

Because the critics didn't get it.

[Heybeenfood]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 2:39pm

Simply because it was a good piece of theater, and tourists make up a large part of Broadway's audience. People would rather see a show involving the music of ABBA than an effective and innovative show.

[songplugger]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 3:09pm

Broadway likes its black heroines sassy and smiling.

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 3:11pm

It did work, it just flopped.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 3:32pm

Simple. Bad marketing. The print ads just showed a black woman, looking somber and smoking a cigarette. Nothing about the ads said "great show!". It looked like a depressing show about a working-class black woman.

PLUS, they chose to have Tonya Pinkins sing at that year's Tony Awards, the 11 o'clock number "Lot's Wife" -- which out-of-context, just does NOT work. There was no lead-in sequence to explain the scene, so the whole nation just saw a pissed-off black woman ranting and wailing. That just KILLED any hopes of attracting an audience. I remember heading to the kitchen during this number at the Tony Awards.

Those who saw the show knew how amazing and diverse the score really was. Unfortunately, none of that was showcased anywhere, so everyone just based their opinions on that one number performed at the Tony Awards, which isn't any type of representation of the actual show. It's just one number. A 'torch' song, dramatic number.

I'm one of those who kept my distance from the show -- all based on what I saw at the Tony Awards and via that logo art. I DID see the show one week prior to it's closing on Broadway, simply so I could have an extra notch on my 'I saw that flop' List. What I experienced that night totally blew me away. I remember sitting there with my mouth wide-open during the entire Act 1. It was sheer brilliance and the score was simply electrifying.

Sad how people do judge the product by the cover -- in this case, it was the bad marketing. The producers realized their mistake and changed the logo art to a beaming and smiling Caroline when the show played in Los Angeles.

Too late, unfortunately. It's Broadway run had ended months earlier.

[ruthiefan_felix]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 5:11pm

I'd rather it went for a limited run, short but successful like in London... cuz to be honest, it's a GOOD piece of musical theatre but it's quite hard... and as said before the marketing is not gd and not too many ppl 'get' it... quite a few ppl posted on the UK musical board that they came out of the theatre feelin nothing.. not much plot; for me, I felt it's just beautiful and great piece of theatre... touched my heart; some said they just wanna punch Tonya Pinkins if she moaned for one more time... oh well... I guess I kinda lost my point now... :S

[Effie]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 5:36pm

Too dark, too unusual, too serious. I think time will be very kind to Caroline, or Change. People will be clamoring for it in 30 years the way people clamor for Follies now.

[millie_dillmount]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 5:49pm

I agree with what BrodyFosse said. None of the marketing for that show screamed, "Come and see me!" I thought the advertising was bland and as much as it sucks that people judge a book for its cover, advertising plays a big part in people's lives, and I don't think they were attracted to that show.

"People would rather see a show involving the music of ABBA than an effective and innovative show."

And what's wrong with that? Not everything on Broadway has to be "effective" and "innovative."

Edited for grammar errors.

Updated On: 11/19/06 at 05:49 PM

[TomMonster]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 6:09pm

I agree Brody that the choice of song for the Tony's really killed any chance it had to sell to the tourists. It did not come across well on the small screen.

Also, the bad review from Brantley didn't help. Frank tried his best and countered with his own take on the show--too little, too late.

The ad budget wasn't very large, so they were really relying on the Times review and good word of mouth. It just took too long to build momentum, and although many people loved the show, myself included, it did not have the ever needed tourist draw.

Like many "arty" shows that don't make it: it's not really something you want to see on vacation...

GREY GARDENS will most likely suffer the same fate.

[Nick Plasia]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 6:25pm

GREY GARDENS will most likely suffer the same fate.


I doubt it. The reviews are a million times better, the producers have very deep pockets--and audience word-of-mouth is amazing.

[TomMonster]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 6:31pm

Let's hope so--it's long term survival still requires the midwest tourist to come in droves. Could be a hard sell.

And no producer will keep a show open that is losing money. Right now it's doing great, because of the reviews and local word of mouth. That will dry up fairly quickly.

Let pray it has a long and healthy run!

[WickedGeek28]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 6:35pm

The material is simply too dense for an average audience member.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 7:00pm

I think it DID work in that it succeeded in doing what it set out to do. It just did not connect with a wide audience.

A lot of modern shows are like that: PARADE, PASSION, WILD PARTY. Special shows that deal with difficult subject matter that tourists and casual theatre goers expecting a good old fashioend light heardted musical will shy away from - no matter HOW brilliant you tell them the show is.

Good reviews willl not sell as show that audiences are afraid will make them uncomfortable. It was easier in 1949. Rodgers and Hammerstein wanted to comment on racial prejudice and wrote SOUTH PACIFIC. Audiences then wanted enlightenment. Now they just want thetare like fast food: pre-packaged, pleasant and non-threatening.

Comedies, "happy" shows, Diney cartoons and empty spectacles (ALW shows) are considered "safe." Challanging material, shows that question your belief system, that present diffiult characters are going to be a tough sell.

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 10:20pm

I must be in the minority, but I loved the logo. And, actually, it really attracted me to the show. It's one of my favorite posters.

[gonnapassmealaw]

Posted: 11/19/06 at 10:31pm

Quibbler, I, too, enjoyed the logo art, although I have to agree on its unmarketability. You all are right, the audiences were just not ready for Caroline yet.

[ByMySide25]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 2:28am

My guess is that they had her perform "Lot's Wife" because of her Tony nomination. She acted the hell out of that song!

I just wish I could've seen it!

[Fridmanlam]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 10:14am

The show to me is so revolutaionary in musical theatre. In many interviews with Tonya and other cast members and after seeing it, the show is entirely music but feels like a drama straight play. When sitting in my room listening to the recording it is so exciting. The score is compelling, earthly, emotional, exciting.
As much as I love the recording as its own art form, the show does have a lot of problems. First stating that with the brilliant score that was written with a sound in mind, and the sound that the writers were aimming for in the voice of Caroline is so taxing on any human voice, that the lead female has so much throughout the show it gets difficult to perform. The recording workss for multiple takes were made and what not, but live it is so out there that there are so few times that Caroline can breath to pace herself. I did not see it off broadway, but I imagine it visually looked more appealing in a smaller space as well.

The detail is what makes the show. The beauty in the piece comes from the simple Chekov like plot line, that has millions of thoughtful and smart details that make it a new style in musical theatre. As much as I would have loved it to be a success, I don't think it needed it, for it still is getting the attention and praise it deserves from the theater community, and hopefully soon from the rest of the world as well. (really quickly also, I HATE THE BUS, gets me every time, I wish I could say I wrote it)

[Gothampc]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 10:19am

It's hard to leave the theater humming "Lot's Wife".

[JBSinger]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 10:58am

I agree with the above in regards to the marketing. The poster did not bring me to the theatre. And the Tony performance, though impressive, was essentially a big rant. They would've gotten more traction out of doing a modified version of the opening sequence with the Radio and washing machine. that would've helped get butts in the seat.
this piece was a labor of love. Look at how many producers it took just to get it to Bway. None of them were expecting to make $. they wanted to be a part of something special...And they were.

[Fridmanlam]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 11:09am

Why do they need to leave the theatre humming "Lot's Wife?" They don't.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 11:15am

You missed their point -

Gothampc's: It's hard to leave the theater humming "Lot's Wife".

They're stating that it's NOT a song one would be humming when they leave the theatre. They were referencing my remarks about it's performance at that year's Tony Awards. The producers should have chosen a more 'hummable' song to make it's impact.

Updated On: 11/20/06 at 11:15 AM

[gonnapassmealaw]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 11:18am

It was also put into a season with a huge number of heavy-hitting box office wonders.

[Fridmanlam]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 11:31am

Thank you for the clarification! Glad to hear.

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/20/06 at 11:45am

Caroline has tied the top spot with Sweeney Todd as my favorite musical. It is simply a masterpiece in my opinion. The buzz on the show Off-Broadway and the ad artwork attracted me to the show. I is ashame that they had to make caroline look "perkier" to try to sell seats. Just says a lot about todays theatregoers. I really think that the "Phantom"/"Cats" era and Disney have groomed theatregoers into wanting spectacle and something they are familiar with. I much prefer a show that makes me think or sparks conversation after the show other than "Loved the chandelier" or "Loved the bubble thing she entered on". I enjoyed "Wicked" and "Phantom" but I also need shows like "Caroline". I also agree that they picked the wrong song for the Tony's but I think they were thinking that it was like another "Rose's Turn". What I read is that Tonya didn't want to do it but they insisted. And Tonya was under the weather the night of the Tony's, which didn't help. I can remember thinking, why waste the "Radio" girls on the opening to the show, why not feature them during the number from the show. JMO