THE SHIP OF STOLEN DREAMS - A NEW MUSICAL- Page 3

[Walcer]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 5:49pm

I searched through the vaults to discover a few other titles I had dismissed...

"The Voyage of a Dream"
"The Ship on Silver Clouds"
"Exodus Forsaken"
"The Promised Land" (Makes me think of Israel though.)
"The Tempest-Tossed" (A reference to the Emma Lazarus quote on the Statue of Liberty)

"The Ship of Stolen Dreams" eh... interesting... I'll ponder that.

"The Ship that Shamed the World" a no go then??

Updated On: 6/4/07 at 05:49 PM

[vfd88]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 5:58pm

I saw "The Ship that Shamed the World". It's dramatic and grabs your attention.

[Tag]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 6:16pm

This all makes me think of The Ship of Lost Souls from a Simpsons episode!

[uncageg]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 6:25pm

"The Voyage"

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 6:57pm

Love SHOAH BOAT, Sueleen! LOL!

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 7:24pm

"Exodus Forsaken" . . . me likey!

[Walcer]

Posted: 6/5/07 at 12:29am

I've asked alot of my collegues about the name changes and the general consensus is for "The Ship of Stolen Dreams." I'm actually growing to like it as well. That may be the one folks! Thanks for all the great ideas and support. Keep the comments coming!

[Blue-Eyed Wonder]

Posted: 6/5/07 at 2:52am

First off, I think you have created, or begun to create, a fantastic piece of work. My biggest suggestion is that you re-record your demo tracks with people who may be a bit more, shall we say, adept at singing. I would love to hear a few of those gorgeous melodies sung by stronger voices.

So, you said you were open for critiques...I sat and read the libretto and listened to the demo tracks as I went. These are the things that came to mind on my initial read-and-listen-thru:

- I wish that Leo's character was a bit more developed from the very beginning. He is clearly important and has a lot going on, but I couldn't really get into him at first because all of the conversations that he had were missing something. His song is gorgeous and I started to get into his turmoil with the song, but I really wanted that to happen earlier.

-Act One, Scene Five: I'm not really sure why Aaron all of a sudden opens up to Leo and tells him the long story of what happened to him. It's a beautiful monologue, but only moments before he is nervous and uncomfortable and has been avoiding any conversation with anybody. What makes him open up?

-I love the first scene between Max and Elise. It clearly sets up Max's unstable mental state and Elise's frustration in dealing with it.

-The scene with Schroder denouncing Schniedick is very strong. It's the first moment that I realized that Schniedick was really up to something completely different. Before he was just sleazy and a bit suspicious.

-The relationship between Aaron and Leo builds nicely in their later scenes. Some small part of that connection should happen before Aaron's speech--than I would understand why he's willing to tell that story to Leo.

-"Paradise" is one of the most touching moments. It's absolutely charming, especially with the interjected scene between Aaron and Ruth.

-I love "How Could You Leave Me", but I wish that there was some kind of angry verse at the beginning, leading into the beautiful ballad. I think it would make the transition from the violent fight into the soft ballad a bit smoother.

-I found "Together" a bit confusing. I wasn't sure if they were dancing and singing to eachother or if they were singing about eachother and not aware of the other. The song seemed to drag a little, particularly when Chanteuse sings.

-I enjoy "Havana" because it is a refreshing change of pace. The harmony parts at the end are particularly fabulous. My overall feeling about the music of the first act is that, excludng this one and the second part of "Forget", all of the songs are beautiful ballads. They all seem necessary because of the emotional turmoil that all of the characters are going through, but perhaps there could be at least one more up-tempo somewhere in there to keep the songs sounding different and fresh. Good strong ending to Act One.

-I was a little confused...was the ending of Act One merely foreshadowing the fact that the passengers will be required to stay on board or did something happen with the Cubans that has since been disregarded or undiscussed? The conversation between Schroder and Clasing is great, with the Cuban singer underneath. The timing is perfect and the music is not too overwhelming for the dialogue.

-In the libretto, "Waiting, Part I" is written as a duet, but your demo track is just Elise. Which way is it to be done? I think it would be more effective as a duet. I can also definitelt hear the potential for gorgeous harmonies at the very end when all of the people on the deck sing together.

-"Chasing Shadows" is very strong and, again, a much appreciated change of pace. With the right singer, this could be one of the strongest songs in this piece. This is the "Javert's Suicide" of this show.

-Hoffman is great. wouldn't change him at all. His entire delivery when he reveals the scheme to Schroder is perfect!

-I totally connot wait to hear "A Broken Heart". Elise is completely my vocal match in this show and I am very excited to hear her "haunting ballad".

-Act Two, Scene Seven: The dialogue gets a bit heavy and cinfusing. I think it just needs to be slightly tailored or else you're getting into a "Passion" situation, where you start to lose to details of the conversation.

-"Hope" is beautiful and I think the best moment is Goldsmith reaching out to touch the little girl as the boat pulls away and then Hoffman saluting the ship.

-Leo's speech at the end of Act Two, Scene Nine is good, but I felt like his whole journey should have led up to something stronger. As a character, I felt like he deserved something more evocative than this speech. Certainly a good start, though.

-Absolutely beautiful ending!!!

I hope you don't think that I'm some crazy, critical freak. I only did this because I really have the utmost respect for the work that you have done. I plan on keeping thoroughly updated on this project and if any if these comments are helpful to you, please let me know. I hope that this project goes somewhere because I would be the first in line to actively try to participate or, at the very least, see the final product.

Oh, and I do like the title and the logo.

-

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[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/5/07 at 3:47am

Wow, Blue-Eyed Wonder. **Claps**

[Walcer]

Posted: 6/5/07 at 3:50am

Wow.. thanks for the in depth review... it's great!

Here's some of my feedback.

The recordings... here's my take on what happened... Although you can't tell from what you're hearing, everyone on there is a actually really well trained singer. (myself excluded!) Where it went wrong I believe happened in the recording process. For most of the songs where you hear more than one person, they were recorded in a large space with sub-par equptment as the singers were singing to pre-recorded tracks. Somewhere in that transfer, be it the monitors or whatever there develloped major pitch problems. It's funny really, when I listen to the music on my ipod, or my car stereo it sounds fine and I can't tell... but I definatly notice it over the computer... Bad luck I guess. Like I said earlier, I'm planning a move in the fall to a bigger city where I'll have access to better equiptment. I recieved an email the other day from a fellow at a New York conservatory who offered to record a few of the songs for me so that should be exciting. But I totally agree, the current recordings are only temporary! ALSO.. in my friends defence they came into the recordings knowing very little about what they were performing as there were numerous hitches in lining up a venue and arranging people who kept cancelling on me, so many got the music the day of and we only had time to do 1 or 2 takes.

What I was trying to achieve with Leo's character was ambiguity. I want the audience to know that something is up with him, but we don't quite know what. It's difficult becase these are all real people, and I've tried very hard to keep their stories as close to what's been documented about them as possible. I'll keep your comments in mind though. I'm hoping those are things I can work out in the workshop stage. Once actors have the bare bones in hand and make the characters their own, it will be easier to see the flaws in the writing.

In Act 1 Scene 5, Aaron reluctantly opens up to leo (you'll notice he tries to leave once and leo keeps stopping him.) because as he explains later in scene 8, he "Saw something different in his eyes".. a genuine compassion and his inner turmoil. Aaron also has two opportunities to sum up Leo before the encounter on deck, 1.) when he is boarding and Leo shows him the first kindness by inviting him to dinner, and 2.) during dinner when Leo serves him. I think what draws Leo to Aaron is that he sees in him what he could end up becoming if his secret was revealed. He thusly wants to know how this man has survived it all. But this is of course difficult to establish without blowing the cover that leo's half jewish before "Lost, Alone"... and even then, I hope it doesn't spill that bit of info in the song, but rather establish that he's hiding a pretty major secret.

Hopefully all this will come across better on stage with actors. Aaron and Leo must have a very strong bond because each dramatically effects each others life. Their storyline explains the title "Ship of Dreams" as well.

That's a good suggestion on "How Could You Leave Me?"... I'll take a look at that again. I think what I was trying to achieve with that was just Elise's downslide into utter sadness and losing control of her situation. Max is really the one who becomes violent there, and she's helpless to stop it.

As for "Together"... It's always been a problem spot for me... on the last rewrite I did I spent alot of time at that section... perhaps it may end up on the cutting room floor... What I was trying to achieve was the backstory to the Loewe's relationship... They sing the song ABOUT each other... (no one in the show ever sings TO anyone other than the audience.) By doing that in a song titled "Together" provides a sad irony that even though they may say they want to be, they're not actually together. it's meant to be a bittersweet moment, but I'm aware it's a bit ambiguous.

As for the up tempo in act one... what hasn't been included on the site is all the underscore. The show is scored very much like a film throughout all the heavy dialogue scenes... That will add more vareity to the music. Also I kind of consider "The Homeland March" to be quite up-tempo as well. After orchestrations, that one will stand out a bit more I hope.

The end of act one is all in Aaron's mind.. It's one of two major premonitions in the show, (The other being Leo's line in 'Lost, Alone' of "Music boxes playing, drowning in decaying dreams." which of course refers to the horribly sad ending of the show.) and it's purely symbollic to set the tone for what's to come. The dance represents the enticement by the cubans and their eventual betrayal of the passengers which is a fear in Aaron's mind. That of course is something to be explored with staging as it should be a very visual number. I'll try to work on making the connection with it "being in Aaron's mind" a little clearer...

A few of songs (Including Waiting - Part 1 and 2 which are duets, yes) are just sung by my partner Emily, but they actually have many different parts... she's just singing them all because I ran out of time and resources. (And I hate my singing voice so I made her sing them all... lol) And yes... there are alot of harmonies throughout the show that didn't make it into the recording due to a lack of time and resources.

Act two scene 7 is a tough one... because there's alot of information that should be conveyed to explain the reasons for why the St. Louis can't land. I guess when you say it's getting into a "Passion" situation was me trying to convey the two characters frustration at trying to free these people and getting nowhere. They begin to say things that people feel but rarely say.

AGAIN... thank you for the feedback. It's great to hear people actually caring about this project. And I'll definatly take some of your well thought out suggestions to heart.






Updated On: 6/6/07 at 03:50 AM

[Walcer]

Posted: 6/5/07 at 4:55pm

Hey everyone... I just wanted to make a comment that I've gotten the point that the demo recordings are really bad, and I'd appreciate it if people would stop pointing this out.

Two things...

1.) You'll never find a demo recording of a show that's all it should be. Musical theatre is a work in progress. Everyone reading this here is an artist or someone who appreciates the arts, so PLEASE use your imaginations (I know you all have great ones!) when listening to these tracks and gloss over their obvious flaws. Try and see if there's potential to become better and judge it on that. This is, after all stage 1 and there's a long way to go.

Mostly I'm saying this because it's frustrating that...

2.) I don't have the time or resources at the moment to do much better than what you hear for recordings. Making a demo isn't as easy as it would seem. At the moment I don't posess the proper equiptment to do this and must rely on friends and collegues to help me out. I work a day job which provides me very little time to work on this project, and last year when I did take a considerable amount of time off to finish it, I went seriously into debt. I know it's not kosher to talk about money like this, but I just want to let people know the reason for these "shoddy" recordings... believe me, it's not that I have poor judgement or am tone-deaf... it's that I'm doing the best I can with what little I have access to.

Also, I know (because I was sitting there listening) that these singers were not singing off pitch during the recordings. It's a bizarre technical problem that occured with the recording equiptment, and lack thereof. Not all editing programs think alike and somewhere in the transfer, this happened.

All this being said, I have recieved alot of generous offers to have the music recorded by others, but this opens up a whole other can of worms. I can't let out the sheet music to people I'm not directly involved with for copyright reasons. Although the music and book and everything surrounding the project is protected by the Library of Congress, things like this are a grey area for beginning artists like myself. There are still ways to bypass the system. So I need to maintain control over the music until the show is picked up. But don't get me wrong, I REALLY appreciate all the offers to help me out!

Anyhoo... sorry to rant here, and I really appreciate all the kind feedback I'm getting!

Take care!!

[lakezurich]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 9:51am

I think for demo recording they were great, so don't worry about the complaints. Again, keep up the great work!

[me2]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 11:47am

Hi David,

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts here, but can I give you a few pieces of feedback?

I give these to you as a determined librettist who had his own show posted with a beautiful website almost as nice as yours. :) My own journey is different because I only write stories and dialogue, not the music.

Anyway, I want to share with you a few things I've learned (and am learning). I recently started a blog (link below) in which I'm going to eventually be sharing my own journey of writing a dramatic historical musical.

1. Some of the strongest criticism I have received has been the most helpful. Sometimes it took me a few months to realize it, but it was very helpful.

2. Don't hesitate to bring in another collaborator. I write this without even having heard any of the songs yet, so please don't think this is a critique of anything. But I wanted to be librettist/lyricist, and I wanted complete control. When I almost joined in on another person's beloved project, I saw myself in her--she was so close to her project, she was completely unaware of its problems (in her case, the fact that there was no arc to her story). Musicals are always an act of collaboration--not just the writers but the director, producer, and choreographer as well. To quote Kander and Ebb, "I simply cannot do it alone."

3. Read Barry Singer's EVER AFTER and Ethan Mordden's THE HAPPIEST CORPSE I'VE EVER SEEN. The Singer book was particularly eye-opening. It's important to read criticism of contemporary shows because THAT is what will sink or float your musical. In fact, read whatever you can about shows and their creators--Kander and Ebb's COLORED LIGHTS, Ted Suskin's BROADWAY YEARBOOK series from a while ago.

4. Critics today tend to despire anything that doesn't have a healthy dose of humor. That doesn't mean your musical should be A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO THE FORUM, but just be aware of that.

5. Don't be undaunted. I've been at it for seven years now, and I refuse to give up!

6. Now that I've listened to some of the songs, I'll tell you that this is a sort of show I would love!
Broadway Blog: . . . The Jane Eyre Altercation (a sad but true story)

[Walcer]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 3:28pm

Thanks for the advice Me2! Here's my responses to yours...

1.) I'm really enjoying the criticism I'm receiving here (apart from the shoddy recording criticism!!) But it's definatly opened my eyes to changing the name of the show. I'm working on adapting everything to the new title of "The Ship of Stolen Dreams." I absolutly love getting feedback from complete strangers. With your friends you never know if they're being honest, or just nice to you! But in the end, your shows success depends on people you've never met.

2.) As for the collaborator, I did bring in another Lyricist because I found I was struggling with the concepts and details of the songs. It's been great, and I couldn't have finished the show without her. It's been a difficult road, I've been working on this project now for over 12 years. I really hung onto the title of "Ship of Dreams" because I guess somewhere in the back of my head I thought I came up with it before it became well known in 1997, then I was kind of screwed. I really wanted to complete the show for it's 60th anniversary in 1999, but it just didn't happen because I was too involved in community projects and writing another show that went up that year. So this show sat on the shelf for several years, and maybe I'd dust it off and work on a scene or two here and there. It wasn't until community work pittered out and I felt I wasn't being artistically stimulated by it that I took another look at the project. The MAIN reason for taking it back off the shelf is from looking at world events around me and thinking "Gee... this story could happen again today." It became all too relevant again, and I felt it was really important that this (reasonably unknown) story got out there again.

Also, I've had REALLY bad experiences with collaborators before. The last show I wrote, I was sharing the billing with 3 other people, and the show became so disjointed and watered down it was really dissapointing. It really became an ego war (Please, not mine!!) so I've learned from that and am only trying to work with people I REALLY trust.

I'm a complete visual thinker as well. In my mind I invision every little detail of the show. The writing process for me is to simply try and translate that vision to paper.

Down the road though, (In a professional workshop) I'm hoping to bring in a slew of collaborators to improve the music amongst other things.

3.) I'll look up that book

4.) Definatly not much room for humor in this show, although I have a few lighthearted moments that aren't necessarily your old fashioned Jokes...

5.) I'm on this 12 years and waiting!! I'm hunkering down for a long haul! It would be wonderful to have it up for the 70th anniversary in 2009 though.

Anyway... thanks again! All the best.

[me2]

Posted: 6/7/07 at 8:00pm

You've been at this for 12 YEARS??? Ah-hem, where's YOUR adivce to ME? :)

I wish I could print off the libretto and read it but I can't because of Adobe problems (long story). I hope other people here will read it and give you feedback. Sadly, people overall aren't that nurturing of new talent.
Broadway Blog: Only One Night Only (The Tonys Post)

[lakezurich]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:07pm

Wow... you didn't waist any time with changing the website did you?

[lakezurich]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:13pm

oh, and just a little PS, it dosen't really have anything to do with the show, but it made me think of it. The other day I was watching the History Channel and was watching a program and I think something came up about the concentration camp that the show starts of in. Did the Nazis experiment with mind control there? Or maybe it was a different camp that had a name that was similar? Anyway, like I said, it just reminded me of your show.

[Walcer]

Posted: 6/18/07 at 12:21am

Dachau Concentration Camp. I'm not terribly familiar with the particulars of the horrors that went on behind the gates, although I wouldn't be surprised at what I hear. It was the first operational concentration camp under the Nazi state and was created shortly after Hitler came to power in 1933. It was one of the few concentration camps within the German borders.

You can get more info here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_Concentration_Camp

Aaron Pozner (who's true story is part of the show) was interned here after the roundup on Kristalnacht. After the St. Louis affair, he and the rest of his family ended up amongst the millions who perished at Auschwitz in Poland. His story was passed on through his diary which a fellow survivor kept safe through the camps.
Updated On: 6/18/07 at 12:21 AM

[Walcer]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 6:12am

Hey all... I've updated the website with the new title, check it out.

http://www.shipofstolendreams.com

Keep the feedback coming!

[BroadwayEnthusiast2]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 11:17am

That title is the one I wanted you to choose, so I'm glad you did. Once again I love how the site shows the mood of the show and I would love to see this produced.

[BroadwayNYCGirl]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 2:18pm

It sounds like an amazing show. It's funny cause I just learned about the St Louis when I went to the Holocaust museum in DC and I started to look up everything about it. I hope you get a producer and get to put it on. If you ever need a vocalist or actress, I'd love to be involved. The show and the story needs to be told.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 3:13pm

I think you are really onto something here, but the snarky attitude defending the demo made me cringe. I was so rooting for you until then...I guess I still am, at least rooting for this show which deserves attention....and the story which DEF. deserves to be told.

...BUT, asking for advise and then telling everyone ENOUGH just doesnt make sense and comes off as phony. I know the process and have sung on demos. It is definitely NOT an easy proposition, and can be expensive, but it is a great way to sell a show...

Best of luck, anyway.

[me2]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 3:25pm

It's so hard in writing things because you never know how it'll be read vs. how you intended it to be read (i.e. tone). I totally get your tone about the singers, which is "Thanks for pointing that out. Now that I understand that, is there anything different I should know."
Broadway Blog: Fixing Follies

[Walcer]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 3:57pm

Thank you for your feedback doodlenyc. In no way was it my intention to come across as 'snarky' or 'phony.' I simply wanted to explain why the recordings are of a low calibre so that it wasn't misinterpreted as a lack of judgement on my behalf. I also felt that a consensus had been achieved and wanted to move the conversations in a more constructive direction. I wasn't intending to sound unappreciative of everyone's feedback, I just felt that the conversation was getting tied up in a very small aspect of the overall production. I sincerely appreciate every bit of feedback (good and bad) that I recieve.

Thank you for your continued support and I hope to hear more from you as this project continues! :) Updated On: 6/29/07 at 03:57 PM

[Walcer]

Posted: 6/28/07 at 4:17pm

I think I should hire you as my publicist Me2!