Overrated Classic Shows- Page 4

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 1:54pm

I can't even read all of the posts in this thread. This is a disgusting thread. When half of what is put on Broadway today is such complete crap, you guys actually have the foolishness to trash classic musicals? Oh, yes, blab on about opinions and so forth--SCHMEH! It just looks IGNORANT to say that Oklahoma!, The Music Man, Guys and Dolls, Fiddler, and Hello Dolly, etc etc etc are "overrated". Your TASTE is what is in question! Or if anything, your knowledge of musical theatre.

Please see Broadway: The Golden Age and the PBS special on Broadway. You need some learnin'.

Updated On: 1/4/05 at 01:54 PM

Posted: 1/4/05 at 2:06pm

I LOVE "The Music Man" and it is truly a bizarre score. All those tricky beats! Who'd have thought those Iowans would be so rhythmic?

And yes, it is hard to enjoy these "Classic" shows in high school productions! But sometimes, that's the best way to appreciate some of them: If a 16 year old untrained 'actress' can bring you to tears as she sings "What's the Use of Wond'ring?" then you damn well KNOW why Carousel is a classic!

[Feodor Sverdlov]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 2:11pm

"Cats" and "Phantom". Especially "Cat". The most boring show I've ever seen.

[twogaab2]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 2:24pm

Not to make anyone feel bad, BUT there are two catch phrases that really make me see red. One is "dated". The other is "over-rated". They both say more about the person who uses such terms than the actual peices being discussed.

Just my opinion, I may be wrong.

[Mattio98]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 6:28pm

Ok, I feel the need to clarify (at least from my own point of view) how this thread was intended. It's not about "bashing the classics". It's closer to what Marc said: Classic Shows That Just Aren't My Cup of Tea. And, as much as I'd love to dispute anyone who says that West Side Story isn't very good, it's their opinion and they're entitled to it and I think that as long as the subject is handled politely, we shouldn't be scared to state our true dislike for some of these shows just because they are considered classics. Also, I think someone said earlier that these shows may be getting a bad rap because of bad local/yout/community productions. I think that's a good point. As great as youth theatre is, I think we can all agree that not every youth production best represents the material being performed.

I consider myself well-versed in musical theatre and I've spent a great deal of time and effort to acquire that knowledge. I resent being called ignorant or tasteless just because we don't all agree on a show's merits.

*Steps off soapbox*

[zippyjen]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 6:56pm

joining thread kind of late but Les Miz and Cats. I dislike both.

[LittleBitRacist]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 7:04pm

I havent seen it, but i dont get the huge deal about the Lion King.
But for shows i have seen it in which my opinion actually counts, ANYTHING GOES, POTO, and dont get me wrong, i did like this show, but i dont see whats to obsess over with Aida. sorry...ill run away now.

[bjivie2]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 7:09pm

Thanks for that Mattio. I think people kind of forgot that and were just starting to bash things. In my opinion, there aren't that many shows that deserve "bashing" and most of them are unknown because they never did very well.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 7:27pm

Regarding the DOLLY controversy,

JoeKv99, you're wrong about Dolly being "a widow from Yonkers." Shaiman is correct. Dolly is clearly, specifically from New York City. The opening scene in HELLO, DOLLY takes place on a Manhattan street. Dolly notifies the audience that she can't stay, she has an "appointment in Yonkers"; meets Ambrose; sings "I Put My Hand In" and then heads off to Grand Central Station to catch the train up to Yonkers.

The title song of HELLO, DOLLY certainly doesn't come out of nowhere (and it occurs the second act, not as the first act finale as in your post). Dolly has not only referred to the Harmonia Gardens incessantly in the first act, she got Ambrose and Ermengarde jobs in the floor show there, through her connections. While it's not specifically indicated, I always thought it logical that Dolly may have at some point worked at the Harmonia Gardens, in some capacity or other. (She "put her hand in" everything else, why not that?) It would certainly explain her familiarity with the staff.

I'm not sure what Hal Prince is talking about in that quote "I couldn't for the life of me see why those waiters were singing how glad they were to have her back where she belonged, when she'd never been there in the first place." Even if he was talking about the Dolly character in THE MATCHMAKER (who differs quite a bit from the Dolly in HELLO, DOLLY!), the MATCHMAKER Dolly certainly has been to the Harmonia Gardens restaurant before, if not often enough for the waiters to know her name. (She says early in the play "I'll bring Ernestina to that restaurant on the Battery. You know it: the Harmonia Gardens. It's good, but it's not flashy.") Later when she arrives, she refers to the "rooms upstairs", so it's clear that she's been there before, although probably not as a frequent customer.
Updated On: 1/4/05 at 07:27 PM

[Corine2]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 7:37pm

I don't think of Cats as a classic show. I do however love that it ran as it gave Forbidden Broadway some hysterical numbers.
I did ABHOR CATS!
Especially when the Rum Tum Tugger sat on my lap.
OY.

Updated On: 1/4/05 at 07:37 PM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 7:55pm

I first saw this thread when it was new, and didn't even bother to comment because I knew I would get into a pointless argument with somebody, but I came back today because I saw that so many people had posted responses.

I am so happy and relieved that other also find this thread (and people's answers) more than nauseating. When a person considerss shows like CATS, THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, and THE LION KING classics, we already know that they don't know much about musical theatre, so my reaction to them wasn't as harsh.

Seeing things like OKLAHOMA, MY FAIR LADY, and THE MUSIC MAN, etc. almost brought tears to my eyes. Seeing today's theatrical youth (and I am one of that age group) bash brilliant, ground breaking, inspiring musicals really makes me wonder where the future of musical theatre is headed. No wonder so much fluff is prevailing on Broadway. Either people are getting stupider, or their tastes are just getting worse. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if half the people who claims those shows are "bad" or "overrated" have a WICKED avatar, or something equally vomitable.

And I certainly agree - most of our initial exposure to these musicals is through barely mediocre, mostly awful high school and community theatre productions. I was in SOUTH PACIFIC my sophomore year in HS and THE MUSIC MAN my junior year. I hated absolutely ever minute of putting together those shows - almost all of my peers felt the same way as I did. We couldn't have been less interested in these boring, ancient, decrepit musicals. Looking back on the shows - watching old videotapes, reading the script, listening to the score - whatever it may be certainly made me realize what I had not appreciated back in High School. These shows are classic for a reason, and although young theatre fans couldn't care less about much else than WICKED and RENT right now, I assure you that there is more out there. 5 years ago, I would have been obsessed with WICKED too, no doubt - but hopefully as you grow up or just get older you will revisit these classics. I am certain that once you do, their classic status will be confirmed, and a little piece of that show will remain in your heart, like so many have for me.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 8:02pm

Updated On: 5/28/05 at 08:02 PM

[Mattio98]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 9:06pm

"Regardless if you don't personally like a show that the rest of the world "obviously" embraces.....please don't belittle proven successful shows and call yourself a fan of real theater."

Are you serious? Whatever happened to opinion? So we're not allowed to dislike certain shows anymore?

There are a few things on this thread that make me nauseous:

1) The consideration of shows like Cats, POTO, etc as classics.
2) Moreso than the "bashing" of these shows (which I think is barely existant on this thread), I am disgusted that people are actually bashing other people just because they dislike certain shows.

Sorry PB but you don't decide what real theatre is. None of us do. This is objective, there are no cold hard facts saying a show is good or bad.

[Mattio98]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 9:08pm

And I DON'T like being stereotyped as some blind Wicked-loving child just because there are certain shows I don't like. There are many other "classics" that I love.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 9:11pm

Thank you , Mattio...that's exactly how I felt when I read some of these comments. We are entitled to our own opinions, you know.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 10:05pm

"Are you serious? Whatever happened to opinion? So we're not allowed to dislike certain shows anymore?"

No where did I say you are not entitled to your own valid opinion of a show. I was addressing the "opening statement" that some thought shows that were mentioned above, were not valued as "classics". Shows that, yes have been widely appreciated internationally for many years and considered by some of the most experienced stage creators...classics.

Like what you like, but again, recognize these long runners and success stories for what they are, that's all. I happen to dislike A Chorus Line very much, But I won't deny that it ran forever and is considered to many " a classic favorite". That's all.

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 10:21pm

You know, it is one thing to dislike a classic musical. It's quite another to bash a classic musical's merits when you don't have the least idea what you're talking about, which is much of what's going on in this thread.

And please explain WHY you don't like something. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but your opinion is worthless unless you can articulate your reasoning behind it.

[Feodor Sverdlov]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 10:33pm

Well, I chose "Cats", but don't consider it a classic, either (I saw my first professional musical in London in 1960); but felt that most of the people here did. Of the shows that I consider "classic", I don't find any of them overrated.

Updated On: 1/4/05 at 10:33 PM

Posted: 1/4/05 at 10:42pm

"The Music Man" and "The Sound of Music"..........
At the least the second act of The Sound of Music you can wipe off some syrup as the play creates sympathy for the characters and has plot suspense.........
"The Music Man" on the other hand.....Plot ends with a thud....after some stupid random song that freezes the plot called something like "Patoochie"..... The rousing "76 Trombones" finale leaves you forgetting this insipid and very contrived show....."The Music Man "is why musical haters hate musicals!

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 10:44pm

called something like "Patoochie"


Or 'Shipoopi'

But whatever you say.

[Mattio98]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 11:00pm

Well....

I already explained earlier in the thread that I think Fiddler has a good score but the book tends to drag in places. Sidenote: Far From The Home I Love is a fantastic song. Guys and Dolls has it's bright spots but it's very repetetive. From a techinical standpoint, the score is JAM-PACKED with those bouncing "half step, back and forth chords" which are cute sometimes but get on my nerves when they occur in half the score. "Adelaide's Lament" is a great character song and "Sit Down..." is a great production number but for me, that's where the appeal ends. The book is decent but nothing thrilling. This is the kind of show where the material isn't great but if you get a bunch of great leads, it can work. What else did I mention? Oklahoma I just find boring. Again, it has a few bright spots. "Oh, What A Beautiful Morning" is a good melody but those lyrics are just cheeseball city. I just wish that he could've put in some more "honest" lyrics instead of going to the Simile Circus. The book is eh. The story just doesn't interest me too much. I feel like it goes nowhere and tries so hard to be a portrayal of a certain way of life that it ends up depicting that way of life, but nothing happens.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 11:30pm

Mattio, I think you are an awesome dude. And, I know that you are not an example to the crassness that has ticked some of us off.

Of course, one is allowed to not like a classic musical. But, to bash any of these shows is a foolish as an opera lover bashing The Marriage of Figaro or La Traviata or Carmen. It's like a straight play lover bashing Hamlet or Death of a Salesman or A Streetcar Named Desire. Whether one likes it or not, there are musicals that are part of the musical threatre cannon--just as there are operas that are part of the opera cannon. Like or dislike all you want, but know what is considered to be classic and enduring.

If only more musicals were written as well as some of these musicals being trashed in this thread.

[Mattio98]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 11:33pm

I see what you mean but I don't quite feel the same way.

Agree to disagree?

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 11:38pm

Am I the only one in existance that love the Rodgers and Hammerstein classics? Jeez! Oklahoma, South Pacific, Flower Drum Song, State Fair (Movie, but still), etc. COME ON!!! Pure 100% Grade A fun. They don't make 'em like that anymore. My Fair Lady, I respect it for what it is and I love some of the songs but the anti-Climatic end just ruined it for me. WSS, love!!! FIDDLER, love!!! MUSIC MAN, love!!! Wow. Give me the classics anyday.

[NaughtyGaudy]

Posted: 1/4/05 at 11:48pm

everyone is entitled to their opinion. some musicals you like, some you don't. it's my opinion that many of you, starting with the original poster, are highly uninformed on musicals, despite your blathering to the contrary.