Sondheim's weaker lyrics/rhymes- Page 7

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 12/31/13 at 12:12pm

<3<3<3<3

Her album "Our Favorite Songs" is one of the most treasured in my collection.

[indytallguy]

Posted: 12/31/13 at 2:00pm

"This just popped up"

Now I want a complete website: Pal Joey's Daily Sondheim Popup.

Make it so. :)

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 12/31/13 at 3:21pm

PJ thanks for the link to Blossom Dearie performing The Ladies Who Lunch! I adore her, and had no idea she ever sang it (I am sure some would wonder why she would cover such a misogynistic song. . .)

[Pippin]

Posted: 1/1/14 at 4:11pm

somebody a few pages back brought up Charlie's

"No, I like money alot, mmmmmm
I mean, it's better than not! mmmmmmm"

I also used to hate this line and thought it was just a very awkward and lazy rhyme. I always thought it was bad grammar, but oddly recently I've found myself saying "Better than not" in everyday conversation.

I think that lyric is fine, especially since Charlie himself is a lyricist, and he may pride himself on making that silly little rhyme.

I find it endearing now.

[BrerBear]

Posted: 1/1/14 at 11:28pm

Ok, the one that always makes me feel like a cat being rubbed the wrong way...

"Witches can be right
Giants can be good
You decide what's right
You decide what's good."

Every time I hear that I keep hoping he won't rhyme "good" with "good" again. But it never works.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/1/14 at 11:37pm

What would you rather?

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 5:48am

I'd rather this thread go away.

*POOF* be gone.

Too much defensiveness.

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 7:55am

I'm okay with "better than not," too. I've always thought of it as a self-contained expression, not a sentence with a phrase chopped off to get to the rhyme.

[Owen22]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 9:28am

Are the words "better than not" a collective term? I'm not aware of it, but if it's so that solves my problem completely.

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 9:39am

You know, Owen, I Googled around after reading this and didn't turn up anything online. Which is weird because the Internet has everything, right? But I feel so certain I've heard the phrase as an expression any number of places.

I guess it's possible that I've retro-catalogued it into my memory because I've known this lyric for so long, though.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 10:01am

"But I feel so certain I've heard the phrase as an expression any number of places."

Did Sondheim bring the phrase into the public vocabulary like he did "everything's coming up roses."

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 10:26am

[mybigsplash]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 10:31am

"Let me do a few tricks, some old and then some new tricks." I always thought could have been so many other rhymes.

[broadwaybabywannabe2]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 1:39pm

"After 8, I realize you dislike Sondheim's work with a passion, but isn't there any song, or even one lyric, of his that you don't hate? I am not trying to be snarky, I am honestly interested. Obviously, Sondheim is not your type of music or theatre, and I respect that. But, do you really hate every single word he puts to music, or note he writes? Even I, who detest Andrew Lloyd Webber and his work, appreciate "Tell Me On A Sunday", especially when someone as talented as Berdadette Peters or Betty Buckley is singing it!"..amen SALLY DURANT PLUMMER

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 5:00pm

^^^^
It's true. I adore Sondheim with devotion (FOLLIES, COMPANY, and PASSION are masterpieces in my mind). I don't think he can do no wrong, but I do believe his worst work is better than anyone else's best. The idea that Andrew Lloyd Webber and Sondheim should collaborate is offensive. ALW's shows only work because of STARS. Patti LuPone, Betty Buckley, Bernadette Peters, ect. Without a star, you are left with the work, and the work just isn't good.

Updated On: 1/2/14 at 05:00 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 7:07pm

"Let me do a few tricks, some old and then some new tricks." I always thought could have been so many other rhymes.

Yes, but it's supposed to a song written by Rose herself (or some hack she hired) to be performed by 8-year-olds.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 7:15pm

The idea that Andrew Lloyd Webber and Sondheim should collaborate is offensive.

Offensive and naive. The short phrases that Sondheim writes serve two purposes: they make his lyrics easier to follow during performance AND they suit the minimalism of his music.

I'm sure Sondheim could write differently to suit ALW's music, but why should he have to do so?

[After Eight]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 7:40pm

"but I do believe his worst work is better than anyone else's best. "

Sure, The Frogs is better than Show Boat, South Pacific, and My Fair Lady.

And Getting Away With Murder is better than Long Day's Journey Into Night, Death of a Salesman, and A Streetcar Named Desire.

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 7:53pm

Thank you for telling us how you feel. No one knew how you felt on the matter.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 7:54pm

new tricks / few tricks

That's a feminine rhyme.

[After Eight]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 8:07pm

"Thank you for telling us how you feel. No one knew how you felt on the matter."

And thank you for telling us how YOU feel. No one knew how you felt on the matter. Nor how anyone else among the loyal devotees felt on the matter, for that matter.

Updated On: 1/2/14 at 08:07 PM

[Owen22]

Posted: 1/2/14 at 9:27pm

"but I do believe his worst work is better than anyone else's best. "

Sure, The Frogs is better than Show Boat, South Pacific, and My Fair Lady.

And Getting Away With Murder is better than Long Day's Journey Into Night, Death of a Salesman, and A Streetcar Named Desire.




Okay, After Eight has you there...

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 1/3/14 at 12:33pm

That's kind of an absurd thing to say about anyone - even Shakespeare's worst is worse than other bests (arguably).

Also, when updating a lyric Sondheim seems like he has a tendency to overthink a line and make a set of arbitrary changes that rarely seem like actual improvements. Mary's change in "Now You Know" from "bricks can fall outta clear blue skies" to "bricks can tumble from clear blue skies" has always tripped me up for some reason.

[MSBoston]

Posted: 1/3/14 at 1:42pm

This is all Sondheim's fault. After reading Finishing The Hat and Look, I Made A Hat, I listen to music and lyrics differently. I hear mis-stresses and false rhymes and imperfections that might not have registered before. I hear "Everybody called him Wilkes. Why did you do it Johnny?" and think, well, almost everybody called him Wilkes. Nobody's perfect, but who needs perfection when best of the best will do.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/3/14 at 8:29pm

Mary's change in "Now You Know" from "bricks can fall outta clear blue skies" to "bricks can tumble from clear blue skies" has always tripped me up for some reason.

I won't pretend to speak for you, but to me "tumble" implies something falling head over heels, like a stone "tumbling" down a mountain side. We "tumble" down stairs, etc.

Bricks don't tumble from the sky, they fall straight down. I'm not saying this is a technical error, but I don't believe "tumble" is the word choice Mary would use. I have no idea why Sondheim changed it.

(I've always loved "bricks can fall out of clear blue skies" in part because when Sondheim was writing MERRILY, there was a series of incidents where parts of older buildings in Manhattan crumbled and crushed passers-by below. I assumed Sondheim was aware of those incidents when he wrote the line.)