Can a white person be cast as Hamilton or Angelica?- Page 3

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 1/4/16 at 6:35pm

But Lin didn't ask your input, and he said it DOES matter how each role is cast. The end of discussion.

 

Nobody needs permission to state their opinion.  The end of discussion.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/4/16 at 7:05pm

@Mister Matt "Nobody needs permission to state their opinion."

You are absolutely right. But what happens here all the time is that people post putative "opinions" about things that are factually determinable, and post putative "facts" that are nothing more than opinions. 

In this case, it is not an opinion what the script says, what the breakdowns say or what the author has said. One can certainly have an opinion about what they would do if they were the author or what they would like to see the author do or not do. But one cannot have an opinion that "it doesn't neccessarily [sic] matter" when there is only one person whose opinion counts on the subject. 

[rcwr]

Posted: 1/4/16 at 7:11pm

The Peggy/Maria casting has changed. Compare the old casting breakdown that expired April 1 and gave Peggy/Maria as "all ethnicities" -- https://www.backstage.com/casting/hamilton-bway-63813/  -- to the recent one that gives Peggy/Maria as "Non-white" -- https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Join-the-Revolution-HAMILTON-is-Accepting-Audition-Videos-for-Broadway-Touring-Casts-20151130 . She's joined the other non-George principals.

Updated On: 1/4/16 at 07:11 PM

[rcwr]

Posted: 1/4/16 at 7:57pm

And all the nonGeorge principals should be POC. That's the only okay way to cast this show. That's the core of the show. It's not a casting idea that was overlaid onto to the show at a late moment; it's the heart  of what the show is.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 1/4/16 at 8:32pm

One can certainly have an opinion about what they would do if they were the author or what they would like to see the author do or not do.

 

And that's really how their opinion appeared to me, especially when reading their full post.  In the end, if a specific casting breakdown says "non-white", the intent is to cast a non-white actor in the role.  One day, that may change or it may not change.  I don't know if there is a white actress that Lin would be okay with or not.  I think he had a vision for the show that works beautifully.  I also think he seems like a pretty open-minded guy.  The whole Lin-didn't-ask-you-your-opinion-so-STFU attitude just seemed a huge overreaction.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/4/16 at 9:27pm

If that's the case, then fine, but i did not read what I quoted that way (and yes, we CAN have a difference of opinion about that!) Oh and I don't own the "didn't ask/don't tell" stuff. 

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 1/4/16 at 10:16pm

"No!!! I want to play the black role! Why does the black guy get to play Hamilton? Why can't I say the N word??? ME ME ME ME ME ME ME"

[tazber]

Posted: 1/4/16 at 10:58pm

Charley Kringas Inc said: ""No!!! I want to play the black role! Why does the black guy get to play Hamilton? Why can't I say the N word??? ME ME ME ME ME ME ME"

 

"

You sound like Rachel Dolezal

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 1/4/16 at 11:36pm

Me, or the fake person I'm satirically quoting?

[mistermanifesto]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 1:05am

One of my favorite things about Hamilton is that we are forced to talk about race and the theatre which is a conversation we've been having for a while but I think it's starting to become more serious.

 

Would it honestly be such a bad thing though to have this one as preferably "ethnic"? It would be nice to have more shows where I wouldn't have to have a Spanish accent and be a walking stereotype.

 

From Lin Manuel's interviews, he expresses a desire to open up opportunities for people like himself. He talks about how there are 3 good roles for Hispanic men (and how he will probably never be cast as them): Cervantes in Man of La Mancha, Paul San Marco in A Chorus Line and Bernardo in WSS. So now, he's creating more roles for people like him. So instead of waiting for people to establish these roles, he has made them himself. I am so greatful for that because it's opening doors for Hispanic men as well as other ethnic backgrounds. My type and roles I am able to play in my lifetime are growing. Not just the shows that he makes but in due time, the effect of his influence. It's not necessarily about keeping Hamilton off limits to white people. It's trying to prove a point that putting POC in roles in a colorblind fashion (in a show that is not about race) can work really well. The goal is to see more characters as more than the white default. 

Updated On: 1/5/16 at 01:05 AM

[SFFrontRow]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 2:42pm

I find it a little ironic, the casting notice for Hamilton specifies non-white (or an exhaustive list of all non-white race designations), but then categorizes it as "Eminem meets Sweeny Todd". 

I am an advocate of color blind casting, and I get the opportunity arguments others have posted on this site (who, I am sure, are much more affected by a lack of opportunity because of "traditional" color casting than me sitting in the audience). I also get the irony of using POC to portray the founding fathers who fought for independence from oppression while being an oppressor. But this casting requirement strikes me as very UN-color blind.

I anxiously await the ripping of my opinion (and dare I say, my very being) by the posters on this thread.

Updated On: 1/5/16 at 02:42 PM

[rcwr]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 2:46pm

You're right that it's not colorblind. A lot of media has called the Hamilton casting colorblind, but they're incorrect.

Actor opportunity is important. But just as important is the fact that this show is what it is specifically because of having a cast of color. That's the heart of it. It would not be the same show without POC casting -- it wouldn't be a show at all. It wouldn't exist.

[SFFrontRow]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 2:55pm

So all the music and incredible expository lyrics/book elements aren't as good without POC?

Funny, I did not even hear about the casting requirements before this week.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 3:15pm

Front Row, 

Each element can be as good on its own, but the casting is integral to the story Miranda chose to tell ("the story of America then told by America now".That story is absolutely not color blind, and it is not as effective when not honored. The show will still be great if a white understudy has to go on in place of the correct ethnicity but not as great, and for that reason I would expect that they will try to continue to make the show look like the NYC subway as much and as long as they can, and to encourage the same once the show gets down into schools etc.

[serene_embers]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 4:18pm

ksilver117 said: "I seem to remember Lin saying something in an interview along the lines of "As long as the founding fathers in the show don't look like the actual founding fathers, it's ok." I can't remember if this was solely applying to school/regional productions, or if he meant it to cover the major professional productions as well, but I thought it would be worth mentioning here.

"

I'd love to see women play the found fathers.  The idea of a genderbent version of the show fascinates me.

[mpd4165]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 4:20pm

serene_embers said: "ksilver117 said: "I seem to remember Lin saying something in an interview along the lines of "As long as the founding fathers in the show don't look like the actual founding fathers, it's ok." I can't remember if this was solely applying to school/regional productions, or if he meant it to cover the major professional productions as well, but I thought it would be worth mentioning here.

 

"

 

I'd love to see women play the found fathers.  The idea of a genderbent version of the show fascinates me.

 

"

After that all-female Ham4Ham, I am into this sooooo much.

[SFFrontRow]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 4:59pm

I was NOT even aware of casting requirements such as this, and I have been deep into theater, and Broadway, since 1982.

It seems to me this is just as wrong as saying a POC cannot play a "traditionally white role". And I would be curious to know if anyone has challenged an author's dictum on either side of the fence. I have read on this topic, the reason was yesterday's America as told by today's America. I guess there are only POC in today's America and on today's subways. Or was the reason to give more opportunities to POC as also quoted on this topic?

I know there was some controversy related to a college(?) production of the MLK play "Mountaintop", with alternating actors (one white and one African-American. But, I don't know all the details on that one.

And I am probably being branded as some right wing lug nut, but that is not the case. I just believe in equal opportunity for everyone.

Updated On: 1/5/16 at 04:59 PM

[rcwr]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 5:04pm

SFFFrontRow said: It seems to me this is just as wrong as saying a POC cannot play a "traditionally white role".

It's not parallel. We live in a white dominated, white privileged, white supremacist culture.

This isn't just about opportunity. It isn't just about "America today" -- of course America today has white people in it. It's about revolution. It's about using the American revolution to tell the story of revolutions happening today.

Lin read about Hamilton writing himself out of poverty and he thought, wow, that's like hip hop. That's the seed of this show.

[serene_embers]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 5:08pm

mpd4165 said: "serene_embers said: "ksilver117 said: "I seem to remember Lin saying something in an interview along the lines of "As long as the founding fathers in the show don't look like the actual founding fathers, it's ok." I can't remember if this was solely applying to school/regional productions, or if he meant it to cover the major professional productions as well, but I thought it would be worth mentioning here.

"

I'd love to see women play the found fathers.  The idea of a genderbent version of the show fascinates me.

"

After that all-female Ham4Ham, I am into this sooooo much.

"

I've wanted one since Renée was Burr in the three Kings "Schuyler Sisters".  It would be pretty great!

[SFFrontRow]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 5:48pm

rcwr said: "SFFFrontRow said: It seems to me this is just as wrong as saying a POC cannot play a "traditionally white role".

 

It's not parallel. We live in a white dominated, white privileged, white supremacist culture.

 

This isn't just about opportunity. It isn't just about "America today" -- of course America today has white people in it. It's about revolution. It's about using the American revolution to tell the story of revolutions happening today.

 

Lin read about Hamilton writing himself out of poverty and he thought, wow, that's like hip hop. That's the seed of this show.

 

"

And I would argue these statements are a little outdated. I am white, but not a white supremacist. I live in a neighborhood where I have been a minority since I moved into my residence in 1986. I don't believe anyone should be excluded and I believe we are all equal. I just wanted to point out the semi-hypocritical practice of being exclusionary to attain a goal of inclusion (the casting to right an historically exclusionary practice for POC actors by excluding actors who are not POC).

I will not fan the flames on the question of race on this trail any longer, and I recognize the challenges in today's world related to race. I get the arguments put forth for the casting requirements.

I hold to the idea that being counter exclusionary (only POC) is as exclusionary as "whites only". I know I have probably rankled people, and I don't mean to. But I guess I am being hypocritical because I have made several posts on this topic.

PS I did like the show, I thought the casting was very good (especially Leslie Odom and Daveed Diggs), and listening to the cast album as I write this (and aren't you all glad I didn't say "soundtrack". So I guess I am a hypocrite on this oo.

[Lilly7]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 6:55pm

Why do white people always complain when they're excluded from something? Can't you just be happy with the other 99.9% of things available to you?

[lite2shine]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 7:04pm

Lilly7 said: "Why do white people always complain when they're excluded from something? Can't you just be happy with the other 99.9% of things available to you?

 

"

Ditto. I'm waiting for the day BOM casting an Asian, Latino, or black Elder Price/Cunningham, or Wicked casting black Glinda. I don't think there was an Asian or Latino Glinda but I don't follow Wicked so maybe there has been.

[starcatchers]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 7:12pm

Re: King George

I don't know if he still does, but Javier Munoz covered King George at the Public, as well as Hamilton. And Joshua Henry played the role at Vassar. 

[DivaProf]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 7:40pm

Lilly7 said: "Why do white people always complain when they're excluded from something? Can't you just be happy with the other 99.9% of things available to you?"

Exactly!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/5/16 at 7:54pm

Can a dog play Martha Washington's tom cat?