Is Score of Hamilton Better in Context of the Show?- Page 2

[After Eight]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 11:49am

"I don't understand the "poor baby" comment."

 

Simple. You failed to spout the party line. Condescension ---- and worse --- is what you can now expect.

[TNick926]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 11:54am

For someone to call this show "awful" they must have a very different sensitivity than I do.  I would love to know what you think is a "great" or even "good" musical?  I love many shows I consider good or great (to me, these would be Oklahoma, Carousel, King and I, South Pacific, Guys and Dolls, My Fair Lady, A Chorus Line, Hello, Dolly, La Cage, Into the Woods, Sunday in the Park With George, Company, Follies...to name just a few).  I consider Hamilton right up there in those shows' stellar company.  But to each his own...

I have 3 millennial children who I took to the show while in previews last July, and they were riveted to the stage, and all have downloaded the score to their playlists...my nieces and nephews in West Virginia have never seen the show but have the soundtrack memorized (through no influence from me!)...I think HAMILTON is a groundbreaking work of art...I sobbed like a baby at the end of the show (Eliza's final moments telling the rest of the story), and still cry when I get to that section in my repeated listenings...but again, art is subjective...

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 12:03pm

Evanston,

Ignore the resident posturing troll, After Eight, and focus on the reasoned responses in this thread. There is no reason on earth you have to like Hamilton. Everyone has shows that are overwhelmingly lauded that they can't stomach. Why? Because we all have different tastes. Sometimes those tastes make us hate something so much that we can't avoid the temptation to go to hyperbole or snark in reacting to it. Most people here and elsewhere love Hamilton. It resonates for us, its intelligence sings out to us and we enjoy the songs, the staging etc etc etc. But there is no right or wrong in taste; the only thing that is inherently wrong is a troll who posits that its taste supercedes anyone else's. 

[Oak2]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 12:05pm

People have the right to have different tastes, and to deride someone for not liking something you love is detestable. While I personally love what I've heard from Hamilton, and especially the lyrics, and would love to see it live, I can certainly appreciate that its style of music is certainly not for everyone. Some people have less versatile ranges of taste than others - it's only a problem if they try to act like their taste should be everyone's tastes or that there's such a thing as an objectively "good" ideal of what makes a good show, as some certain people on this board try to act.

As to the question, I would think in general it would be hard to enjoy any kind of musical if you dislike the music. Certainly shows can work the other way, where you love the music but personally dislike the story/characters (as is my personal view on RENT, for example), but as the music is a driving thing of interest, and especially for a show like Hamilton which to my knowledge is almost entirely music with little dialogue (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, merely the impression I was given), then I do feel that if you don't enjoy the cast recording, you're not going to enjoy the live show. And considering how hard it is to get tickets and the price, it would probably be best if you don't go, both to save yourself the regret of wasting money on a show you will most likely not enjoy, and giving those who know they're going to love it a better chance to get in.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 12:08pm

After Eight said: ""I don't understand the "poor baby" comment."

 

Simple. You failed to spout the party line. Condescension ---- and worse --- is what you can now expect.

 

Oh man, please. You need to seriously get over yourself. I'm going to break this down for you so there will be no future misunderstandings on your part. I was being condescending not because hork failed to as you call it, "spout the party line". I was being condescending because those of you who didn't like Hamilton (and believe me you have every right not to) have a habit to be overtly melodramatic about it.

 

 

Updated On: 9/9/16 at 12:08 PM

[hork]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 12:12pm

I don't see how I was being melodramatic, but whatever. 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 12:15pm

hork said: "I don't see how I was being melodramatic, but whatever.

Whatever indeed.

 

[mpkie]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 12:16pm

EvanstonDad said: "I was surprised, given all the hype, by how much I disliked the music. I can tell from the album that this is the kind of musical where the music is integrated heavily into the show -- it's not the kind of score to deliver a bunch of stand-alone numbers. But even at that, a lot of it sounded like the stage show version of elevator music. For those who have seen it, does the score improve in the context of the show itself? Is there anyone else who didn't like the music upon first hearing it and then changed their minds after seeing it?"

It's funny you should ask this.. Very timely because I just started messaging friends this week asking what's the deal with this music and what should I do to maximize my enjoyment? I probably got about 7 songs in. I'm finally going in a week, and the friend I'm going with has listened to the album and liked it well enough. I have some friends who are in love with the music but haven't seen the show. So for my friend that I'm going with... I specifically asked if I should give it a few listens and if that's the only way I'll like the music. But she told me to stop listening to it as to not spoil it, since the performance itself will enhance it.

That said, "Alexander Hamilton" and "Schuyler Sisters" both grew on me (from listening to parodies and other people performing them!). Part of is that I just really don't think I can take listening to a lot of LMM. I honestly love the dude as a pop culture figure - love his attitude, personality, enthusiasm, etc. Even though I loved his White House performance, over the actual "Alexander Hamilton" cast recording, too much of his voice is too much, so I wasn't remiss that he left the show.

On top of that, when I saw the Grammy/Tony performances I thought the staging elements / dance / actually seeing the actors really did add to it. I know some people were underwhelmed by those performances but I enjoyed them.

We shall see, soon!

[hork]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 12:22pm

CarlosAlberto said: "hork said: "I don't see how I was being melodramatic, but whatever.

Whatever indeed.
 

Why you gotta be like this?

 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 12:45pm

hork said: "CarlosAlberto said: "hork said: "I don't see how I was being melodramatic, but whatever.

Whatever indeed.
 

Why you gotta be like this?

You know what, you're right. I should not be like this to you or anyone else on this board. You have every right to your opinion and express that opinion in any way you see fit. I sincerely apologize to you for being rude. I'm truly sorry. 

 

Updated On: 9/9/16 at 12:45 PM

[gypsy101]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 12:51pm

it sounds like OP has missed the boat on Hamilton. the album came out a whole year ago, if it hasn't grabbed you by now I don't think it will. I will say however I was among those who took a few listenings to really get into the recording, just because there's so much going on it was hard to digest at first (and I'm a huge fan of In the Heights so I wanted to love it immediately). Of course some  songs hooked me the first listen (Helpless, You'll Be Back, Take a Break) but the whole score is so dense it took about three listens to really love it.

[indytallguy]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 1:25pm

If none of the cast recording resonates with you, I don't think hearing the music in the context of the show will flip the switch.

On my first listen I immediately liked a handful of songs and wanted to skip right through some others. After seeing the show, some of those I wanted to skip made more sense. I can't say I love them, but I can appreciate them.

It's an inartful comparison, but my first experience with Passion was like this. A couple of songs immediately went on repeat and others I just slogged through. But seeing the show made me appreciate more of the score.

[Andy51]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 1:32pm

"For those who have seen it, does the score improve in the context of the show itself? Is there anyone else who didn't like the music upon first hearing it and then changed their minds after seeing it?"

Despite being a big Hamilton fan now, I was underwhelmed by the soundtrack upon my first listen.   The fact is that much of the music is (knowingly by LMM) quite derivative.  I found it agreeable enough and catchy, but far from revolutionary.  But after carefully listening to the lyrics and placing the individual pieces within the narrative structure of the whole musical, the character and experience of the music changed for me dramatically.  Tunes that I might find overly derivative and saccharine if written as stand-alones with vacuous lyrics became things of beauty when imbued with LMM's lyrical and storytelling brilliance.

[velevele]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 1:57pm

Hard though it is for me to believe now, deep into my fandom, the first time I listened to the "Hamilton" score, I didn't get it. I was listening in my car, in segments during my commute (which is quite short, so I was only hearing the score in fragments of a few minutes at a time), and it was all just kind of overwhelming, to the point that nothing particularly stood out (other than "Wait For It", for some reason). I was wondering what all the fuss was about. Then I listened a second time under better circumstances, and suddenly it was like crack cocaine. I mean, seriously, like flipping a switch - from going from "meh" after one listen to "OMG this is the greatest thing ever" after the second listen. Bizarre! So, I guess I would say, give it at least two listens. Then if you don't like it, you don't like it, which is fine.
 

Outing myself as the complete cultural loser that I am , I saw a touring Broadway production of "Rent", and listened to the score a couple times, but despite these attempts to "get" that show,  I loathe everything about "Rent" - the characters, the plot, and, especially, the music, which is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. We all have different tastes.
 

But no - if you don't like the score, don't go see the show, or it'll be a long nearly three hours. I myself plan to never see a production of "Rent" again, ever.

Updated On: 9/9/16 at 01:57 PM

[hork]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 3:36pm

CarlosAlberto said: "hork said: "CarlosAlberto said: "hork said: "I don't see how I was being melodramatic, but whatever.

Whatever indeed.
 

Why you gotta be like this?

You know what, you're right. I should not be like this to you or anyone else on this board. You have every right to your opinion and express that opinion in any way you see fit. I sincerely apologize to you for being rude. I'm truly sorry. 

 

No worries. Apology accepted  

 

[mpkie]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 3:57pm

gypsy101 said: "it sounds like OP has missed the boat on Hamilton. the album came out a whole year ago, if it hasn't grabbed you by now I don't think it will. I will say however I was among those who took a few listenings to really get into the recording, just because there's so much going on it was hard to digest at first "

He may have his reasons for not listening until now. I purposely avoided it because I figured all the OBC would be gone (mostly true) before I ever got hands on tickets and I didn't want my opinion colored by the OBC actors' delivery. But then, thanks to this board, I got tickets, and I started seeing some people saying you should go in familiar with the score because of its density... I haven't had trouble understanding the words but maybe it's different in a theater? Also, I heard super good stuff is in Act 2 but I haven't gotten there.

velevele said: "But no - if you don't like the score, don't go see the show, or it'll be a long nearly three hours. "

Personally, this might not be the best assessment. For example, I really shrugged my shoulders hard at the Book of Mormon OBC album. I just didn't get what the hype was and really didn't plan to see it. But when I finally saw the show... I was in love. I BELIEVE! While the context of the show changed everything for me, I do know people who love the cast album and have never seen the show.

Everyone's different. But I feel like if you have the means to form an opinion through first hand experience, do so.

P.S. I don't get the deal with Rent either! :)

 

[Margo319]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 5:41pm

Hamilton is truly a work of art, a work of genius, a brilliant love letter to Broadway, and an incredible history lesson.  Others may feel the same about another work of art, which I could absolutely hate. That's the great thing about art, a million people get to have a million different opinions on it.  

 

However, I must add you will never ever hear the soundtrack to Hamilton in an elevator.  If you do, CALL ME.

[Oak2]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 5:45pm

Yeah, the only part that confuses me is the "elevator music" comment. If there was ever a musical I would be close to calling "elevator music" it would probably be Once - I do refuse to ever see that because I personally found the cast recording so mind-numbingly boring, and again, I don't feel seeing it live would be any better.

I still find it highly doubtful that one could enjoy a full musical while outright not enjoying the music at all. It's too much of an aspect of it.

Updated On: 9/9/16 at 05:45 PM

[Margo319]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 5:51pm

Once was so lovely, so subtle, and so incredible because the actors were also trained musicians who played the entire score on stage.  And Steve Kazee and  Cristin Milioti.  My God. 

[aaaaaa15]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 5:56pm

Oak2 I thought I'd feel the same about Once after listening to the cast recording but I absolutely loved it when I saw it. Of course, there ARE plenty of people that found it boring.

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 6:13pm

Once is actually the only musical that i have ever enjoyed thoroughly while not enjoying the music at all.  I liked the book so much that it managed to overcome the music for me.  That has not happened for me before or since. (So just once...

 

[aaaaaa15]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 6:35pm

Agreed!

[ukpuppetboy]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 6:56pm

I'd managed to avoid the cast recording (and much of the show hype) before watching Hamilton for the first time and I have to say that despite that I was still built up for a fall that never came. As people on here have repeated the show IS the music (also the writing in general), and that DEFINITELY works better in context AND live performance.

I am 50/50 on much of the direction and the rather staid design, which would have worked perfectly well for a  national tour of Nicholas Nickleby circa 1985 but felt to me very uninspired 30 years later. And I am no fan AT ALL of most of the choreography, which laboriously spells out every last detail of the libretto as if the performance were being signed for the deaf. However, when the show gels it's electric and from "Guns and Ships" through to the end of Act 1 I was mesmerised. Something about the tone, pace and sheer dynamism that scene created cast aside my earlier British reserve and previous misgivings. I remember spending my post show drinks still protesting the things I DIDN'T like about the show - but the more I listened to the music afterwards (and subsequently having seen it a second time) those have faded and been replaced by all the things I did. And that stems from: intelligent, dynamic writing, some expertly crafted moments (of tension and emotion) and a cast that is at the top of their game. GO and be immersed and don't base your opinions on a album passively listened to. Would Michelle Obama lie to you?

[snl89]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 7:29pm

Out of curiosity, EvanstonDad, did you hear the full cast recording, or just part of it? 

I haven't seen the show live yet myself, but I will say that when I first started listening to the cast recording, I didn't *dislike* it but I didn't necessarily expect to adore it as much as I do now either. I think when I first started listening to Act 1, I thought it was catchy and nice, but wasn't really taking in a ton of the lyrics on those first few listens. 

Then once I started listening to Act 2 more, and particularly once I'd given the recording a good few listens all together, I started deeply appreciating just what an incredible piece of storytelling the show is. The songs individually, for me, are great, but it's when they come together as a whole, with the ebb and flow of energy and emotional intensity, and when you come to have enough familiarity with the show to be able to take in the full effect of the amazing lyrics, that it gets to a whole other level. 

I know this doesn't quite address your original question, but I feel like perhaps it's less a matter of actually seeing the show played out (since I do believe the music and lyrics are still the driving force of the show, even on stage), and more a matter of whether the score would grow on you the more you take the story in as a whole and become more familiar with the nuances of the music. 

If you've already tried listening to it all the way through and it had no effect on you, that's cool! I can't personally relate haha, but of course everyone is entitled to feel however they happen to feel about any piece of art. I'm not personally a huge fan of most of Sondheim's work myself, for instance, but I know tons of people are. 

But I would, if you haven't already, attempt giving the second act a try, especially as I feel like that act the heavier variance in musical variety as well. The first 8 or so songs of Act 1, with the exception of You'll Be Back, do trend toward the rap-heavy side, and I know I myself sometimes opt for Helpless and onward when I'm feeling in not such a straight-up rap mood. 

[NZBOY2]

Posted: 9/9/16 at 9:34pm

You know Lin is a very intelligent guy. He possibly has a genius IQ. Sometimes his very smart and well written musical. With multiple meanings, and without cliche. Like for instant the word 'Shot' has multiple  meanings. None of the characters sung felt fake or cheap. It felt like they were fully realized  in song . Aaron could have easily been a 'Villain '  but he was three dimensional. The songs that he sung all showed why he did something instead of just  him making him like a Disney Villain. Like American Sniper the movie made the bad guy not realized and more one dimensional. I do not know anyone here knows how hard and difficult this is to do. Its so easy to write a bad character a good one compared to shades of Grey, And I felt the album showed shades of grey ,

Updated On: 9/9/16 at 09:34 PM