Is Dolly Too Frivolous- Page 2

[sng]

Posted: 9/29/16 at 12:24pm

that is the most ridiculous question I've ever heard. Hello, Dolly! is not frivolous. It is joyful. They are totally different meaning. How can one see a musical like Hello, Dolly! and not realise the message behind it is beyond my understanding especially in the posted monologue and Before the Parade Passes By. 

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 9/29/16 at 12:38pm

According to the dictionary, frivolous means carefree and not serious- which is why I started the thread- I love  challenging and serious theater- but I did fork over enough to pay for third row tickets in the orchestra- so obviously, I do want to see it- love Midler and have seen her in concert probably 15 times- have to say I did not love the movie though I am a big Streisand fan- and when I saw the show years ago as a Channing revival on Broadway- it was so broad- and Carol was so diminished- that it seemed like a farce- it was okay but not really excellent. Anyway, yes- I love a good entertainment- serious or not- and sometimes the least likely production will surprise. That said, I did not really like Fun Home- and enjoyed School of Rock much more. I was hemming and hawing about Hello, Dolly- but am really looking forward to it- and the next night seeing Sally Field in Glass Menagerie. Have room for one more- maybe Evan Hansen.

Updated On: 9/29/16 at 12:38 PM

[Mildred Plotka]

Posted: 9/29/16 at 12:39pm

Speaking of Pearl Bailey, I've been reading Ken Bloom's new  Broadway anecdote book and there's a fabulous story about Bailey plugging her book after the curtain call. She made the one white chorus boy run to her dressing room, which was not close to the stage, every night to retrieve it. When the production staff suggested they keep a copy for him to get right off stage, she vetoed the idea.

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 9/29/16 at 3:01pm

Count me in as one of those who ponied up and bought an autographed copy of Pearl's Kitchen after her performance of Dolly on Broadway in 1975. Still have it. I was so entranced with the show that during intermission I bought a glass of champagne, something I haven't done at a theater since. I was underage, but cheers to New York sensibilities.

I've got eight tickets for the show on June 3. My daughter is coming, and my mother too. Mom adores both the musical (she played the OBCR nonstop back in the day) and Bette Midler. Elderly and frail, she is flying out from Wisconsin, utilizing a walker, all because she HAS to see this show. I am charged with getting us hotel rooms near the theater. I think we're going to have some new memories. Special ones.

Updated On: 9/29/16 at 03:01 PM

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 9/29/16 at 3:10pm

Only read the OP so forgive my ignorance to the other posts.

It's never been one of my favourites either but it has nothing to do with it being frivolous.

There are few things I hate more than the assertion that every show or movie or book has to be groundbreaking and "important" to matter. DOLLY is a sophisticated and charming old fashioned musical.

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 9/29/16 at 3:19pm

I'm pretty sure this is a thread for the OP to just keep telling us over and over they paid $350-$450 to sit third row center over and over on something frivolous. (I wish I had that kinda cash!)

 

Anyway, I think there's a huge market for people that just want some fun on Broadway. My mom loved Fun Home but wanted therapy afterward. For a lot of people, Broadway just means dancing and good music and fun. I see nothing wrong with that. So if you can pay for third row center, enjoy!

[SweetLips]

Posted: 9/30/16 at 8:45am

Didn't want to start another Dolly thread so just thought I would tack this on here.

Ms Midler would have known perhaps for a year before rehearsals begin of her role so my questions are-how does one go about learning the songs/dialogue before rehearsals begin/does one arrive word perfect on day 1 then get shaped by the director. Preparation-how?

In a role and a star like Dolly-is it a compromise between star and director?

The process of creation is what interests me and how is the final outcome achieved?

If someone has done, or knows of, or your random ideas.

Thanks....SL.

[MrsSallyAdams]

Posted: 9/30/16 at 8:56am

I'll second StageDoorSally's analysis. The text of "Before the Parade Passes By" is the subtext that drives the rest of the show. Sally highlighted Dolly and Irene. I'll add that Cornelius is fighting for his life as well. He's aging, has no prospects and is being abused by his Scrooge like boss. He takes a big risk, throwing away his job and his savings, for a chance at happiness. He puts Barnaby, his younger co-worker, in danger but mentors him in a way that Vandegelder never could. There's an interesting arc between "Put on your Sunday Clothes" and "It Only Takes a Moment."

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 9/30/16 at 12:28pm

Personally I prefer MAME, but surely that's beside the point, which is that the creators of HELLO, DOLLY! (including Thorton Wilder) knew exactly what they wanted to do (or figured it out after a hellish out-of-town tryout) and did it supremely well. What more can anyone ask of an evening in the theater?

Comedy done well isn't necessarily more superficial than drama. And it sure as hell ain't easier.

[beaemma]

Posted: 9/30/16 at 1:20pm

Horace is Scroogelike in more than his initial thinking and behavior. By the end of the show, he has changed and, like the others, is ready to embrace life and a second chance.

[ChgoTheatreGuy]

Posted: 9/30/16 at 2:24pm

I have seen the Streisand film revival tour (as a child), Channing in the last revival tour and a dinner theatre production.  My favorite scene from the film is the dinner scene with Matthau at Harmonia Gardens, Carol Channing can sleepwalk through the part, but it was very exciting to see a legend perform a role that she had originated.  The dinner theatre production was good, because they had a small stage, it was in the round and they were forced to be very creative with the production.  I read a book about Ms. Midler that said with the exception of being the Acid Queen in a production of "Tommy", she claimed she hated doing theatre, because it was the same thing night after night and you were never able to deviate from it.  It will be very interesting to see what she does to make this part her own, considering her erractic film performances of late...

[MichelleCraig]

Posted: 9/30/16 at 6:18pm

Stage Door Sally, I've loved your posts in this thread and can't wait to hear what you and your mother think of this new production!

[KateSam]

Posted: 9/30/16 at 10:00pm

I also hate musicals without a good book. Where the person rather than show is the star avoid them like the plague 

Updated On: 9/30/16 at 10:00 PM

[Mildred Plotka]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 1:02am

The book for Dolly is superb. 

Updated On: 10/1/16 at 01:02 AM

[RJ14]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 1:35am

Maybe the hand fisting song is a bit frivolous.

[goldenboy]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 1:41am

The original poster commented that "Bette" may be too frivolous. Not the show itself.

And he has a point. If she brings the kind of work she did years ago in Beaches and For the Boys,. she could be brilliant. If she is lazy and just plays  Bette Midler as she did the in the horrific  TV version of Gypsy and on her sit com where she  simply played herself... we could be in trouble.

Why do some older actors get so lazy?

Let's hope Bette puts in the work and makes Dolly something more than the Bette Midler Show. That is something she mistakenly relied upon for the past 10 years or so.

[Ranger Tom]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 10:17pm

^^^Wrong.  He pointed that "I like a musical with some heft, some emotional weight..."  I guess my issue is with "too."  If you don't want to see it, don't spend the "third row" money for it.  A lot of other musicals that could be too whatever.  Godspell, Joseph/Dreamcoat, Legally Blonde, Forum, Fantasticks, 42nd Street, and others could be in someone's "too" category, but, if done well, they can be a load of fun and, as someone said earlier, not make us want to leave the theater and kill ourselves.  Pay your money and be carefree.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 10:53pm

goldenboy said: "The original poster commented that "Bette" may be too frivolous. Not the show itself.

And he has a point. If she brings the kind of work she did years ago in Beaches and For the Boys,. she could be brilliant. If she is lazy and just plays  Bette Midler as she did the in the horrific  TV version of Gypsy and on her sit com where she  simply played herself... we could be in trouble.

Why do some older actors get so lazy?

Let's hope Bette puts in the work and makes Dolly something more than the Bette Midler Show. That is something she mistakenly relied upon for the past 10 years or so.

 

"

That's why the sitcoms of Bill Cosby, Garry Shandling and Jerry Seinfeld were all such flops: the stars just played themselves (or played their public personae).

I think you'll find that stars of HELLO, DOLLY! have been playing themselves since the show began. The show is so tightly written it can accommodate a Pearl Bailey as readily as an Ethel Merman.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 10/1/16 at 11:19pm

SweetLips said: "Didn't want to start another Dolly thread so just thought I would tack this on here.

Ms Midler would have known perhaps for a year before rehearsals begin of her role so my questions are-how does one go about learning the songs/dialogue before rehearsals begin/does one arrive word perfect on day 1 then get shaped by the director. Preparation-how?

In a role and a star like Dolly-is it a compromise between star and director?

The process of creation is what interests me and how is the final outcome achieved?

If someone has done, or knows of, or your random ideas.

Thanks....SL.

 

"

SweetLips, I'm sorry your questions were ignored. The short answer is "it depends on the show". Some directors want actors off book (i.e., to have memorized their lines) before the first rehearsal. As a former director myself, I think directors who demand this are bad directors. By the time a role has been committed to memory, the actor has instinctively done much of the work building and internalizing his/her character. To demand that work be done before first rehearsal is to demand it be done without the director. Why would I want that?

Unless the actor has a memory impairment and a very large role, he or she will probably learn his lines as he rehearses them and won't need to sit and memorize lines by rote, other than an occasional brush up now and then.

Now Bette Midler is no neophyte and no doubt knows what she needs. She has the money to hire a piano player as well as a vocal coach, and probably has done both. If she thinks she needs extra time to learn Dolly's lines, she can get someone to work with her on that, too. (I believe she used an ear piece the last time she was in a Broadway play, a device by which a prompter can supply a line if she forgets it.)

***

As for who is in charge, the star or the director, it depends on who is the bigger name. William Goldman, in his excellent 1968 (IIRC) book, THE SEASON, talks about something he calls The Muscle. The Muscle can be anyone, but it is usually the producer, star, director or writer) and refers to the person with the most clout in the company. It varies from show to show: e.g., Harold Prince was always the Muscle on his shows when he was producing and directing, but I suspect Andrew Lloyd Webber was the Muscle when it came to PHANTOM, Prince's direction notwithstanding.

I think you can make bank that when Bette Midler performs, Bette Midler is The Muscle. Nothing and nobody will appear in her DOLLY unless she has approved it/him/her. Jerry Herman will write her new songs if she demands it.

Updated On: 10/1/16 at 11:19 PM

[SweetLips]

Posted: 10/2/16 at 12:22am

WOW !  Thank you GavestonPS for your very learned response--it was JUST what I was looking for. Many different approaches as a Director as they too have, it seems, their own style and way of tackling a piece.

It will certainly be intersting to watch and read from afar exactly what Ms Midler does with the role but I am sure there will be some Pearl Baily in there somewhere.

 

Appreciate all you said as I love to learn.

SL...........X

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 10/2/16 at 10:27am

MichelleCraig said: "Stage Door Sally, I've loved your posts in this thread and can't wait to hear what you and your mother think of this new production!

 

"Thanks Michelle, we're looking forward to it!"

 

[scampsweep]

Posted: 10/2/16 at 10:50am

Is there a standby for this role? If so, has it be announced who yet? Or is Bette doing all eight shows? I assume they'd want someone reasonably known as standby in case midler is ill - which is very likely at some point during a long run.