Sondheim or Webber?

[Justice]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 1:10am

Lately, after having a "musical theatre" conversation with a co-worker, I realised that it all boils down to two types of musical theatre lovers. And these two types are defined on their like of two different composers. Sondheim or Webber. The answer to which of those you choose lets people know your style and intelligence. So which is it? Sondheim or Webber? (and you cannot say both, because there's no such thing)

[Mattio98]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 1:12am

SONDHEIM

But, there actually is a both. On Broadway, we have plenty of theatres to accomadate plenty of both those types of shows for everyones' tastes. Updated On: 12/25/04 at 01:12 AM

[pab]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 1:15am

SONDHEIM

[wildcat]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 1:17am

There's no such thing???
Irving Berlin and Kurt Weill?
Debussy and Galt McDermott?
Jule Styne and Marc Blitzstein?
Who says I can't like aspects of all of them? Isn't that what enjoying music is about...NOT being narrow minded and dismissive?

[Justice]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 1:20am

Let me explain - Sondheim is about intellect. Webber is about simplicity. Either you like to be entertained with thought, or you just like to be entertained.

Posted: 12/25/04 at 1:30am

Sondheim saved my life--well his music when I discovered him at 13. I honestly think that--it spoke to me in a way nothing had before. So without a doubt Sondheim.

But I'm a mild ALW fan. I saw Phantom when I was 9 and it blew me away--first professional musical i saw. I think Aspects of Love ha some gorgeous music and when I lived a year in London I won tickets to Whistle Down the Wind--and enjoyed it much more than I expected.

E

[wildcat]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 1:31am

Or maybe I can do both. I'm not being mean spirited, but wasn't "FORUM" about being entertained? Wasn't "JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR" thought provoking?

[Justice]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 1:36am

What's so thought provoking about a story that most of us had heard about since we were children. Ooh, Jesus' last days before his death. How thought provoking. (as I must mention that is sarcasm, because sarcasm does not read well on puters)

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 1:39am

I do believe it is possible to love both styles for different reasons.

[LaeloftheLakes]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 1:45am

I started out ALW...I mean, as a kid, his stuff entranced me, but I've gradually gone over to the Sondheim camp, where I am quite content.

[jesseeinstein]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 1:55am

yikes! Not even dignifying this with an answer! Ok I will! Sondheim is INFINITELY better than ALW!

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 2:02am

LLOYD WEBBER

This is a good topic and it is correct that it all boils down to them really. They are the two most popular modern theatre composers and yet they are so different almost like opposites. They are the opposite extremes on the spectrum of taste in theatre. I prefer ALW because just brcause he is the one who brought me to the theatre and I was a young teenager from the popular world and I loved and still love popular rock music and he combined that with live entertainment which facinated me. I also prefer ALW because I am an aspiring producer and always go for the money and the money is in ALW, not Sondheim. Yes, I am the man who may kill Broadway someday! lol

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 2:03am

SONDHEIM

(Obviously.)

And Jesus Christ Superstar isn't thought-provoking: it's overblown, pompous and confusing, with gawd-awful lyrics (what was Tim Rice on when he was writing them?). Take it from someone who played an Apostle.

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 2:27am

One thing is true. SUPERSTAR is great great great rock music. Period.

[zaneyb3000]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 2:27am

Sondheim.

[wildcat]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 2:31am

You must remember the controversy that SUPERSTAR caused when it first appeared. There was something of an uproar because Jesus was portrayed as "just a man" for the first time, with the authors writing from Judas' point of view. Sure, in hindsight it's all pretty harmless but the show's impact at the time was amazing, causing people to react very emotionally to the whole concept.

[commasplice]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 2:37am

I actually have a question not directly related to the Sondheim/Lloyd Webber debate (I haven't heard enough ALW to have an informed opinion).. what is Jesus Christ Superstar rated? My 11 year old cousin got the DVD (new version) as a Christmas gift tonight (not from me), but when I looked it up on IMDB.com, the main page says it's rated R, but the "DVD Details" page says it's rated G. Those are two extremes, and I'm just wondering which one is right.

[Justice]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 2:40am

I believe that when it was released, ratings were rare, and not as enforced as they are now. If I recall correctly, it's G.

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 2:43am

You have to figure out if the the DVD is the movie or the stage production. There are two versions. The movie is rated G and the stage production is rated R which I think must be a mistake because I don't think there is anything R about either though I do not even believe in censorship at all so I may be the wrong person to judge.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:00am

Why not like both? Webber is great and Sondheim is great. Oh, and yes Webber has written simplistic works in the past but have you heard Aspects of Love, Woman in White, and to some extent Evita? Not every single Sondheim song is complex either. Granted, his music in general is more complex than Webber but Webber's is more complex than others that have polluted the broadway stage the last few years.

[Broadway Matt]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:17am

As Mattio answered, there's plenty of room for both. ALW has been known to write some great musical theatre scores and a whole lot of garbage too. Sondheim is responsible for a lot of the most genius music AND lyrics in theatre but, forgive my saying so, has also written some pretty bad (or at least misconceived) crap. ALW and Sondheim aren't what's wrong with Broadway and should both be seen as good things when we get them. With all the dreck on the boards nowadays, even Starlight Express and Anyone Can Whistle are seeming like not such bad ideas.

EDIT: I never answered the question, did I? As far as personal pereference, I'm more often inclined to listen to Sondheim. But that's not to say I never come home exhausted and put on a little Sunset or JCS to calm the nerves.

Updated On: 12/25/04 at 07:17 AM

[son_of_a_gunn_25]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 7:22am

Your original post implies that people who like Sondheim are smarter than people who like Webber in my opinion. While I fall into the Sondheim camp myself, I find the idea that you can only like one or the other ignorant. That's like asking if you like pop music or classical in my opinion. To me it sounds like you've just given a slap in the face to over half the board. (Maybe I am reading into it.) I love variety when it comes to music. While I love the complex, the simple can also speaks volumes.

Updated On: 12/25/04 at 07:22 AM

[iluvtheatertrash]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 8:14am

How in God's name can you say ALW does not provide intellect? His stories take a lot of thought and maturity. I didn't appreciate the stage version of POTO because frankly, I just was too immature.

I prefer Sondheim but even Webber bashers can admit the intellect, maturity and beauty of his work.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 8:15am

Gunn, that is exactly how I took it. So, because I like Webber I have no intelligence. Wel I wud haf 2 desagre! But, for those that wondered about my comment yesterday on the "Is America readey for Movie Musicals" thread.......it is because of crap like the original question that was asked on this board.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/25/04 at 8:22am

iluvtheatertrash, I agree. Like I said yesterday on that thread, today we have musicals that are based on pop music that would appeal to 15 year olds (not every musical, but you know....). While webber has that one or two songs that are popular, the story is what draws a lot of people in (like me). If it was just a dumb musical with good music, I would probably like it but not be on threads like this defending him. I mean, he did a mystery/thriller on stage that actually made people go "OMG" at the twist ending (Woman in White). He did a musical that uses Soccer as a metaphor for the protestant/catholic violence in Ireland (Beautiful Game). He took a story about Jesus and made a Rock Opera out of it and took a lot of crap for it from protestors, bombers, and such (Jesus Christ Superstar). Yes, he has done musicals like CATS that people make fun of all the time, but the thing is he did something that no one else would have done and I have respect for him because of that.