Norm Lewis as Javert- Page 5

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 5:37pm

Well, I learned something today. I learned that France's history of racism is not completely parallel to ours and that Javert historically could have been black. I also learned that it is useless trying to have a friendly debate with someone as immature and volatile as TonyaFanatic.

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 5:47pm

im not being volatile. i can have a friendly conversation and do have friendly conversations all the time. i just stand my ground when it comes to certain issues. i said what i said and it's the truth, im not going to kiss anyone's ass or lessen the blow of what i say for effect or to make friends. the problem is i am utterly blunt and you people on here tend to take it personally. if it doesn't apply to you then don't respond or be so hurt by it.

[Roses]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:16pm

In regards to Tom14850's comment on Rebecca Luker in House of Flowers in the revival production of House of Flowers Ottilie was played by Yolande Bavan, who is not black (she happens to be from Sri Lanka) and how many times is Othello played by a white actor when he is a moor, and how about all those very white people playing Egyptians in Aida. The story will be told and the music will be sung beautifully regardless of the color of people's skin. THEATER IS A FANTASY WORLD NOT A HISTORY BOOK! If you don't like it don't buy a ticket! Just becuase you can't stretch your mind doesn't mean the rest of the world should stay in the dark ages with you.
Also, people get upset about race discussions b/c we live in a country that has a terrible history with inequality in many arenas. One can not judge a man or woman until he has walked a mile in his or her shoes. How naive to think that this thread wouldn't get people heated? This is a country divided on so many issues and this happens to be one of them.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:25pm

The shows been mounted internationally for years. It's been cast by every nationality and color other than alien.

Cameron Mac. put this together as a "tribute" run and prelude to other things to come. At least that was his first official announcement. That being the case, he can and did cast whomever he chose. His choices are unique, for lack of better words. Just as unique as who was/ was not seen and what was/was not offered. This is not as "highly anticipated" as you might think.

The show will sell because it's Les Miz and certaintly not because of the casting. Personally, I don't see it running beyond the 6 month tribute nor do see an album.

As far a Norm, it's a power part that he's not played and he'll play it well. That's just my view.

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:39pm

Tonya,after working 13 years in this business, I say this in all honesty and sincerity, with no ill will. The attitude you expressed in your previous post will most likely destroy your potential career. Your talent will be hidden with bad attitudes. You will be labeled as trouble and confrontational, in this very small world of theatre.If a post like this angers you so much, how will you handle a backstage tiff with another castmate in PROFESSIONAL theatre. The diva thing no longer works, as there will be 20 non confrontaional folks to take your place. Trust me, I learned this myself the hard way. when I was 22. I wish you the best of luck, however. Listen to Effie....and I Am Changing.

[soapguy17]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:51pm

I'm not going to speak for anyone else. But, I'm not crying for color blind casting. The reason I went into this thread, I was beat to it by someone else, to state that there were black leaders in Europe during this time period. So in this situation the casting in perfectly fine. So, I'd like to apoligize if I called you racist in any way, that was not my intention. And Tom, I'd love to see Hugh Jackman do just about anything so I'd sit through the show no matter how unbeliveable it is.

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 6:56pm

Soapguy, thank you..and again I apologize to my misconception that there couldnt have been an African American French Police inspector. I learned something new. I was misguided to assume that France was ignorant as America in the early years. Now if I can only put a ring on someone's hand...lol.

[wicked4life51]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 8:54pm

hey people reality check , javert has been african american in the lodon production for more than 3 years

and also , who cares if hes black or white,asian or hispanic, whatever race that man may be

hes talented and FINALLY DESERVES a huge thing like les mis
hes amazing

okay people, but well i can see how you feel about this whole issue, why dont you go talk to the producers MAYBE THEY WILL GIVE YOU A HIT OF EVEN MORE REALITY

(they will pull a miranda preisty, where they dont care what you have you say, and lead you out with "THE TALES OF YOURE INCOMPETENCE DO NOT IMPRESS ME ")

ITS NICE YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT , BUT WHOEVER WROTE THIS
GROW UP
SCREW HISTORICAL

LIKE I SAID, IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT GO TALK TO THE PRODUCERS

SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY
DID YOU CAST IT ? NO?
SO I THINK ALONG WITH ME
THIS IS A POINTLESS AND STUPID TOPIC

wow people grow up
seriously, sum of you are sooooo dum
and thats very liuttle

i know im hardcore
BUT IM STATING THE REAL HERE

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 10:34pm

hey people reality check , javert has been african american in the lodon production for more than 3 years

Erm. Cornell John is British. Therefore he cannot be "African American."

And he only joined when Michael McCarthy left, which was far fewer than three years ago.

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 10:56pm

There's another can of worms -- and I know I'm going to get yelled at for this, but I'm saying it anyway. Why DO we use the term African-American as a blanket term for black people? Obviously, there's the case of those who aren't American in the first place, but a lot of black Americans don't come from Africa or have any relation to Africa whatsoever. My family came from Russia and Poland - but I would have no idea what you were talking about if you called me a Russian-American. A Jewish American, yes. A white (caucasian) American, yes. African American as a term seems like it has the potential to be far more offensive or inaccurate than the term "black" does, which, every black person I've ever met has used to identify him/herself with.

Am I way off base on this?

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 11:00pm

Yeah, I always thought it was funny when people would comment on the "African American Enjolras" in the 1998 movie. Erm, no, not really...

As for the issue at hand, it probably belongs in its own topic. On the Off-Topic board. Not that it's not an invalid question, but this thread has gone on long (and wanky) enough as it is.

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 11:54pm

Yeah, I knew I was pushing it in terms of relevancy, but might as well continue what we first begun.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 12:11am

Please...let...this...thread...die...

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 12:33am

Anyone just see TV Funhouse on Saturday Night Live. Mr T. just tried to muscle himself into the role of Torvold in A Doll's House. The director goes, " Your not right for the part." Couldnt help but chuckle...LOL

[Over_the_Moon]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 2:11am

"wow people grow up
seriously, sum of you are sooooo dum
and thats very liuttle

i know im hardcore
BUT IM STATING THE REAL HERE "


Let he who is not dum cast the first stone.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 2:44am

OH MY GOD PHILLYACTOR YOU ARE SO RACIST I MEAN HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT TORVALD COULDN'T BE BLACK WHY ARE YOU OFFENDED TO SEE A RICH BLACK MAN IN 19TH CENTURY NORWAY IF YOU THINK COLOR SHOULD BE AN ISSUE IN CASTING YOU ARE IGNORANT. I PITY THE FOOL WHO DOESN'T THINK CASTING IN THE THEATER SHOULD ALWAYS BE COLORBLIND

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 3:03am

YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DUM...that Pocohontas from Hell was talking about you , you know. First rule..if you call someone dumb...MAKE SURE YOU SPELL IT RIGHT...LOL

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 3:04am

Sigh. And I thought you had to replied to my witty post.

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 3:07am

Id rather Pity the Child, than the fool. :)

[LostLeander]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 4:29am

There are no minorities?
I would definately say there are minorities. It's sad but true!
(Everyone's a little bit racist...)

And there is a difference between parts written, specefically for white/black/asian/blue/green people. And there are parts that were originally played by white/black/asian/blue/green people, that mention nothing about their white/black/asian/blue/green-ness. It's just how the original production was staged.

It's happened in Opera - Aida played by the 300 pound white women. Shakespeare - White men playing jews, moors, and women.

Les Mis is a fictional piece, first and foremost. And it seems kind of... cauco-centric to believe that white people are the only ones who've been able to have power until recently.

I feel it's horribly limiting to people of color to say that they'll never be able to play, I don't know, Curly, in Oklahoma because there wouldn't have black people in 19__ Oklahoma. Perhaps not, but can we not believe that a black man would wake up and say, "Oh What a Beautiful Morning" unless he was in slave clothes and spoke in broken, slave english? I guess they should just stick to playing in the Wiz, Dreamgirls, and the Lion King for the rest of their lives, and let the white people handle the historically inaccurate singing.

What I've learned is that that's the business. It's becoming clear that a lot of people can suspend their belief to believe that someone can fall in love from a glance in a crowded party and break out into song, but not a black man. Only if he's in overalls, or I don't know, FUBU, and singing Ol' Man River or some riff filled jazzy song.

I'm sorry for the rant, it's just heavy on my mind as I'll soon be entering into this crazy world of stereotypes, and agents cast typing, when I'm not "urban" enough to be black, and my skin color obviously says I'm not white.

Let's hope Audra and Brian can break down some more barriers.

And another thing, I've ALWAYS hated, as a African-American, when people use the "My best friend is ____" or "I've done so much for _____". It doesn't automatically make me think you're a racist or biggot, but it always sound like a justification I don't need to hear. You don't need to prove it to me.
I'm not mad, or attacking, I'm just sharing!


(Updated for poor grammar due to it being 4 am)

Updated On: 7/9/06 at 04:29 AM

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 4:43am

Lost,
I liked alot the things you said. I actually took a few years off after working consistently, because I had an older look in a younger body. I had to grow into my look basically. But the whole business is about type casting...when you have all the talent in the world, and get typed out at a cattle call before you even get in the door. I agree with what you said, but I still aint buying BD Wong as Professor Higgins. And to clarify something you said, I brought up my involvement in the community and the fact that my partner is black AFTER an individul was insinuating I was racist and called me Hitler. It didnt sit well, and for the moment, I felt a need to justify myself. Regrettably..but we all get cranky at 4 am.

[clarky]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 5:04am

folks, it is a piece that is played in Paris, but sung in English!

Who cares what ethnic the cast members are. This is the 21st century. Shouldn't we be over that discussion by now?

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 5:11am

The sad part is that this was just a discussion/debate on traditional vs non traditional casting. I happened to use the Les Miz reference. And boy did this thing go in crazy directions. It was debate..one of the purposes of a chat like this. Some people got their panties ( or jocks) in a bunch, and all I could say is that I wouldnt want to see them in the real world. I learned a few things because of the thread, so it served its purpose to educate and perhaps get myself or others thinking outside of the box. What the hell do I know, all I know is the way I approach life has given my union cards and an extensive resume, and well..it works for me. But I suppose we should all sit with our heads under a rock, and talk about whos playing Elphaba where, and OMG was she good???

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 11:20am

Lost - your example of a black man being limited by not being able to play Curly goes both ways. A white man could then be considered limited because he couldn't play Joe in Showboat and get to sing the best song in the show or play Coalhouse in Ragtime. And though the role really has nothing to do with race, Curly couldn't be played by a black man unless Jud and Laurie were also black because the dynamics of the relationships would be HUGELY different if they were given the time period.

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 7/9/06 at 2:23pm

"Only if he's in overalls, or I don't know, FUBU, and singing Ol' Man River or some riff filled jazzy song."

will soon be my signature.

'I've ALWAYS hated, as a African-American, when people use the "My best friend is ____" or "I've done so much for _____". It doesn't automatically make me think you're a racist or biggot, but it always sound like a justification I don't need to hear. You don't need to proove it to me.'

absolutely