What's with all of the teens obsessed Wicked and RENT!?- Page 3

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 1/6/07 at 9:16pm

The fate of the goat professor. The death of the sister. Galinda's inability to publicly acknowledge her friend's inate character and integrity. Need I go on? This *isnt* a "nice" show, when you really look at the material. It's vicious and vindictive and only has moments you could describe as heartwarming. But it has this candy-coated gloss that makes everything go down so much easier, so much so that you dont even notice the truly hateful message it's conveying.

I temporarily forgot that I had posed that question, but I'm kind of baffled by your response. I agree that the candy coating is masking some darker subject matter underneath, but still, demonic? Maguire's novel is extremely dark and a little subversive, but they've all but removed most of that from the musical. The actual events that you take issue with from the musical aren't even things that I would consider especially bad. Yes, the goat professor meets an awful fate, but that treatment of Animals is what Elphaba's trying to stop. You have to get an idea of the tyranny of the Wizard's government somehow. The death of Elphaba's sister? You'd have to take issue with Mr. Baum for that one. Do you think the same thing of The Wizard of Oz?

I mean, I get what you're saying and I agree that it's not a saccharine-sweet story, but what (essentially) fairy tale is? Vindictiveness and revenge are elements of a lot of stories. You speak as though you're worried that people will be corrupted by Wicked or unduly influenced by the show's "message" (which I'm still not sure you've articulated). I suppose we're just going to have to disagree on this one.

[leefowler]

Posted: 1/6/07 at 11:07pm

I'm a friend of Mike Nichols, and after he saw Wicked, he said, "I can see why it's a big hit. It's about high school, and EVERYONE has been to high school!"

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 1:38am

>> You speak as though you're worried that people will be corrupted by Wicked or unduly influenced by the show's "message" (which I'm still not sure you've articulated).

I'm far from worried about that. My sole worry is that based on the majority of posts we've seen about this show, no one's actually been inside the theatre and sat down to watch it, because had they, we wouldnt be celebrating it as the "feel-good show of the year". It's dark and subversive and more than a little cruel, and it's far more than just a parable about high school.

>> The death of Elphaba's sister? You'd have to take issue with Mr. Baum for that one. Do you think the same thing of The Wizard of Oz?

Of course not, because Baum didnt write the same characters as Maguire. Elphaba and her sister aren't the innocents wronged that we see in WICKED, just as G(a)linda isnt the two-faced power-monger. As such, there is no issue to take with Baum, thank you. But there is this little thing called "comprehension", which I gather most viewers of WICKED seem to lack. For example, when I mention the goat professor, your response is:

>> that treatment of Animals is what Elphaba's trying to stop

And yet she fails, miserably. As uch as she wants to, she *doesnt* "defy gravity"; instead, she falls hard to the ground and has to hide under it to escape her attackers. By the end of the play, this victim of circumstance has not only brought about the miserable end to the animals that she tried to stop, but she's also become the most hated person in the land -- and where's her good friend, Galinda? Telling everyone how wonderful it is she's dead -- and there's the message you leave the theatre with. I'm sorry, but am I supposed to find that all cute and cuddly and fabulous? Dont know about you, but I have real problems wrapping my head around that one.

And yet all these people say it's just this amazing show. It has a mediocre score and a pretty sad (both literally and metaphorically) book, but what sells it is the stagecraft, even if some of it (like the dragon) makes no sense to someone who comes into the theatre without having read Maguire's novel. It's a triumph of style over substance, just as CATS was. And it will no doubt run just as long and have just as many tours and make just as much money.

But is it good theatre? Sorry if I sound like an elitist snob, but no. It's manufactured and packaged, and it purposely ignores the very ethical questions it itself raises. And so does the audience... again, if the glowing posts on these boards are any indication.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 7:02am

Rent is an amazing show ,maybe teens see that a lot more than cynical adults?
Rent is by no means a teen show though ,but when its dealing with acceptence its the kind of show that a young person who feels isolated in certain aspects of his or hers life can relate to,and thats a good thing.

As for wicked well that's a big fun camp show what does exactly what it says on the tin.It's become the show to insult by the theatre snobs,so its good the teen fans stick with it.

And no im not a teen!!

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 9:35am

>> a big fun camp show

Well, there you have it, folks. I rest my case.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 1:43pm

SeanMartin: Hmm, not that I'm any fan of Wicked, but I never thought of it that way. That IS pretty depressing.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 2:58pm

SeanMartin, you're awesome.

[smiles]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 3:16pm

4 years ago, I would tell you that I was a fan of musicals.....but if you asked me what were my favorite musicals I would say 'Phantom of the Opera, Sound Of Music and Grease" because that's all I knew....and the only reason I knew of those musicals were because they were movies.

Then a few years ago I went on a grade 12 school trip, to New York and saw Wicked.....Yes I'll admitt it..I was a crazy obsessed fan after that....but seeing wicked, and enjoying it so much, I decided to look into other musicals.

Yeah 3 years later and I still do enjoy wicked,would I say that it's my all time favorite? No. but thanks to wicked it has encouraged me to look into other musicals (Les miserables is currently my favorite)

So let these "tweens" be obsessed with wicked for a while...maybe they'll be inspired to look into other great musicals

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 3:18pm

SeanMartin, I'm trying to figure out exactly what you're trying to say. I, just as you, am confused about how people could find Wicked cute and cuddly and fabulous, but the things you're pointing out as the darker elements of the show actually become a problem in themselves.

"It's dark and subversive and more than a little cruel, and it's far more than just a parable about high school."
See, I don't think it is, and I think that's exactly the problem. It pretends to have discussion about truth, deception, good and evil, appearences, but it never really does go there. It merely flashes the idea out there with some plot elements and sugar coats the rest of it into a high school drama. The danger of the show is that people actually think there's nothing self-abusive about Elphaba's considering Glinda a friend when all that has been developed was an abusive relationship. And nobody walks out realizing how Elphaba is conforming and giving up the fight by living and escaping rather than taking the sacrifice.

It has been sugar-coated and watered down into a high-school drama. Thought, even looking at it through that lens, I'm not sure how people think it's a "feel-good" show.

But really, if only the dark elements WERE there.

[Pinguin]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 5:10pm

They both are big POP musicals. It's really that simple. Teens and especially tweens aren't often really looking at content, they just like to sing the music in their room and pretend they're rock stars.

Posted: 1/7/07 at 6:38pm

yes .
okay, im guilty of being obsessed with both ofthese. and i am a teen . but i do love and obsessed with other shows/musicals. trust me. i know quility of all theother shows. like, many many others. i cant even list them all.


i actually make my dad take me to small shows in theatres downtown where i live, and see liek every broadway show that comes through cincy, i love them all . Updated On: 1/7/07 at 06:38 PM

[Dibbledl01]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 9:17pm

as a 16 year old i have no problem with my friends being crazed wicked a rent fans but it kinda gets to a certain point when your entire cast of your high school musical, backstage, during intermission, goes around screaming asking someone to play "seasons of love" or "defying gravity" when they should be concentrating on the show tunes they're butchering out on stage at the current time. and when you look on their iPod and that's the only show they have. that gets to me. my voice teacher called it "cult musicals" which I'm starting to believe now. i'm always taught to sing classic show tumes like r&h or l&l to auditions because they are neutral and people can relate to the lyric easily, but when girls and boys walk in singing wicked and rent for their auditions i flip out. it's not right. how can u relate to lyrics that talk about witches, wizards, drugs, strip clubs, ....directors don't want to hear it. these kids should know better...that's my big peeve.

[inlovewithjerryherman]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 11:18pm

Very good, SeanMartin.

I think a LOT of the problem here is the the GRAND majority of the people who are obsessed with Wicked and Rent have only any contact with it through the cast recording.

and I guarantee had they seen the show, and THEN got the cast recording, it would be a different story. But since they get to hear Idina's magnificently synthesized performance on the cast recording, and fall in love with the pop screaming that's become so mainstream in American culture these days, they make up their minds that Wicked is awesome and the fact that if (that's a big if) and when they actually see the show, they come to hear the music and already have their minds made up that it's going to be awesome.

Therefore, spectacle hits, the Gruen transfer kicks in (PM me if you want to know what that is) and everyone leaves in a state of utopia. Not because the show was actually good, but because they had made up their minds beforehand that it was, thanks to the cast recording.

Now, whether or not the music deserves such a massive following is another issue - but I think the cast recording is really what makes Wicked and Rent so popular.

and think about it - now that millions of people have seen Rent (the mediocre show it is, ruined further in an EXTREMELY mediocre movie), we really don't hear all that much about it anymore, because people have actually SEEN the show.

[jeremykushnier1fan]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 11:23pm

My question is why are so many people obessed with teens who are obessed with Wicked and Rent. These threads are just as annoying.

[today4u:proofpositiv]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 11:25pm

Oh dear this could get ugly.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 11:30pm

Maybe because the threads in question dont actually discuss the show and its merits or failings, but rather the audiences attending and the incessant fan-boy statements about Idina et al.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 11:38pm

"and I guarantee had they seen the show, and THEN got the cast recording, it would be a different story. But since they get to hear Idina's magnificently synthesized performance on the cast recording, and fall in love with the pop screaming that's become so mainstream in American culture these days, they make up their minds that Wicked is awesome and the fact that if (that's a big if) and when they actually see the show, they come to hear the music and already have their minds made up that it's going to be awesome. "

I don't necessarily think that's the case. Are you aware of the splash the show made and the impact it had on people PRIOR to any cast recording? I really think it's the story. I think people fall in love with it over the fact that it pretends to have a discussion about some pretty serious subject matter without ever truly getting to the deppest, ugliest parts of it and sugar-coating any darker material to make everything nice and easy to swallow...desirable to swallow. And I think because they pulled Elpahaba back from being SUCH an extremist and mixed her up in some typical high-school drama, a lot fo teenagers are CONVINCED they can relate to someone so oppressed, outspoken, and misunderstood (again, I'm not sure they can...and I think the fact that a lot of fans who supposedly relate accept the ending and Elphaba's relationship with Glinda says a lot).

So just the music? Noooo way.
Updated On: 1/7/07 at 11:38 PM

[allyooop]

Posted: 1/8/07 at 12:10am

I think it's basically the story and the music that appeal to teans. I'm a big fan of both along with a whole batch of others. Like many these were my 'gateway' shows that introduced me to so many more and I'm thankful that they took my interest and expanded my love for broadway in general. I don't think any of the shows emit such negative intentions and that they were made for their wide appeal regarding the way people relate to them and for entertainment. If you don't like it or seriously believe that it's not even worth a mention, then you are close-minded. Everyone is different and are allowed to like a show for any reason valid to them. No need to prove your point just to make them see it your way.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/8/07 at 12:30am

>> Everyone is different and are allowed to like a show for any reason valid to them.

... as long as the reason makes some kind of sense. But to say "I like chocolate because it tastes like strawberries" sorta indicated a serious lack of familiarity with the true nature of chocolate.

[allyooop]

Posted: 1/8/07 at 12:37am

True, but I dont see anyone professing their love for Wicked because everything is green and green is their favorite color. I just don't think it's wrong for enjoyment to come so easily as to simply liking the basic story or lines from a song. A lot of viewers don't see theater as 'thououghly' as others. That's all I'm really trying to say...

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/8/07 at 12:42am

>> but I dont see anyone professing their love for Wicked because everything is green and green is their favorite color.

No, but what they *are* saying is "Isnt it a happy show???", which it aint, not by a long stretch.

[Craww]

Posted: 1/8/07 at 3:10am

Just because the material itself isn't happy doesn't mean that it doesn't make people happy.

This is a society full of people whose spirits are lifted by nastiness. Wicked is a fairly innocuous example of that truth.

[Gelfling]

Posted: 1/8/07 at 4:33am

I don't think it's about people needing their spirits lifted up... someone mentioned Hair and Grease earlier in the thread and I think Wicked and Rent share a lot of similar elements with these shows that can easily explain the attraction to younger people. I mean no disrespect to any of these shows, I was a Grease fan myself in my younger days but it's quite simple, really...

A group of friends, a little romance, younger characters that can be easily reduced to stereotypes you can 'identify' with (or your friends), accessible songs, throw in a little struggle with authority and some anti-conformism and you get the perfect vehicle for teenage angst and unrest.

We've all been there... some with movies, some with plays, it's just natural. And it's also only natural that it's used by marketing to aggravate the obsession... a product of our culture.

None of it means that teens/tweens who are into Rent/Wicked will only be into these shows or will be interested in others. I guess it just depends on what they are looking for when they get over that stage in their lives.

Updated On: 1/8/07 at 04:33 AM

Posted: 1/8/07 at 3:56pm

"We've all been there... some with movies, some with plays, it's just natural. And it's also only natural that it's used by marketing to aggravate the obsession... a product of our culture.

None of it means that teens/tweens who are into Rent/Wicked will only be into these shows or will be interested in others. I guess it just depends on what they are looking for when they get over that stage in their lives. "


gelfing, mkay i agree.
i have this major obsession with Newsies.
full time obsesser , and with RENT.
but its not like i go around and that all i listen to or talk about.. it made me intrested in aaron lohr , then follwed him and discovered idina menzel and just kinda became a broadway freak. my mom gave me a bunch of old playbills and stuff and i get SO excited, there from like le mis, ragtime and like so many others and my friends are like theyre just papers. and my whole ipod is like 0297502836523 broadway shows , and my friend sare like no one wants to listen to this , im like uh YES they do.

Posted: 1/8/07 at 4:01pm

I read an issue of Every Day With Rachael Ray and in one section for teen cooking, they gave tips to make cooking fun. Here's one non-direct quote.

"Listen to music. Musicals like Hairspray and Wicked have fun, upbeat music."


Ugh.