My Take On Pirate Queen.

[logcabin]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 4:22pm

I’m new at posting on this forum, although I have been reading it for some time. I usually don’t post on forums as I find that most are monopolized by a small group of individuals pushing their own agenda and often bashing others for whatever reasons. However, occasionally one can get good information and insight on topics.

A brief bit of background: I am a retired theatre professional who worked in theatre for over 30 years as an actor, producer and director. My experience includes tours, regional theatre, summer stock, dinner theatre and Off-Broadway. I “retired” about 8 years ago to finally settle down. But, I still occasionally work at some local theatres as an actor or director. So, I am trained and experienced in theatre. Since I am “retired”, I am in no way connected to any show in NY.

The reason why I decided to finally post on these boards is because I spent a VERY enjoyable evening in the theatre last night and wanted to share my thoughts.

Last night we saw The Pirate Queen. Of course we all know what several have been constantly saying about the show on these boards. Also, we all know what the “so called” theatre critics have said about this show. However, I want to give my opinion now about it.

First, after seeing this show and being but one of a sold out theatre full of enthusiastic, standing and cheering theatre goers, I can’t help but to feel that these critics and some of the people on this forum have some other agenda going. I found this show VERY enjoyable, as did the entire sold-out audience. Is it a perfect musical? No, but what is? Does it have some problems? Yes, but what show doesn’t? Is it entertaining, enjoyable, and emotional and passion filled? You bet! Does it have good music and is it visually exciting? More so then many shows on Broadway today. Are the performances first rate and deserve recognition? Most certainly do. Does it deserve a chance to succeed on Broadway? YES, as does any show that makes it as far as Broadway.

I’m not going to get into a “review” as we all know about the show, etc. Sure, I would have liked to have seen maybe a bigger ending, no the score isn’t as good as Les Mis, but it was still very good. Compared to other shows I have recently seen including Grey Gardens, Curtains, Wicked, Spamalot, etc. I found The Pirate Queen more enjoyable. But, that’s my opinion. And, from the reaction of the sold out house last night, obviously many others enjoyed the show as well.

I think the real reason I am posting this is more because of my disappointment with these forums and the comments many have made about this show. Having been in theatre since the age of 13 (I’m now 45) I remember when theatre people use to be supportive of each other. When theatre people wanted to see shows succeed, see actors succeed, etc. I find it very disappointing reading some of the downright bitchy, catty, nasty and uncalled for comments many have been making about this show on here. I thought you all were lovers of the theatre and/or are theatre people yourselves? What happened to “supporting” each other? What happened to “supporting” a show? All shows deserve a break and an opportunity to find their audiences and become successful. I absolutely hated Rent, but feel it deserved its chance. I disliked Wicked, but am very happy to see it such a hit. Other than Christine Ebersole’s performance, I didn’t think much of Grey Gardens. But I’m happy it’s doing well. The more shows that are successful and running on Broadway, the more work there is for actors, techs, stage hands, etc. All-a-round good for the theatre community.

I just can’t understand why so many of you are so catty, nasty and bitchy about this show. Is it jealously? Can’t you get work? If you were “real” supporters and lovers of the theatre, of the “art”, of the theatre community, you wouldn’t be spending so much time bashing this or any other show. Sure, you have the right to your opinion and your review. But well structured, constructive reviews are far more appealing and taken far more seriously than those who try to be cute and try to think of as many ways to “bash” a show as they can. If you were “real” theatre people, you would support a show instead of bashing it and trying to “do it in”. I fully expect that some of you will undoubtedly bash me for my comments. Go right ahead as it is expected. Remember one thing, though. At least I know that I am supporting the one thing I have a passion for in life and that is theatre. At least I know I am supporting this show, as well as its cast, crew, stage hands, etc even though it may not be the greatest or best show I’ve seen, it still deserves a chance.

In closing, I am one theatre person who thoroughly enjoyed The Pirate Queen and wishes it much success. I hope that it finds it audience (like Evita did, Wicked did, Les Mis did, etc. all shows that received bad reviews initially) and that the producers can recoup their investment and that the actors can have a long running hit.

Let the bashing begin…………..

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 4:27pm

Logcabin, I'm glad you said that. I've the show a few times now and I enjoy it more and more each time. I'm going again this week too and can't wait.

As to what you were also saying, I think the internet just gives people who want to be important than they are a forum to do and say things that make themselves feel that way, and sadly a lot of times (especially on here) that means bashing shows they haven't seen and being exceptionally cruel to others. Unfortunately it's not going away and it's just something we'll have to learn to live with.
Updated On: 4/7/07 at 04:27 PM

[istillbelieve24601]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 4:30pm

Logcabin, that was a really brave review you posted. I'm glad not everyone comes out of the show hating it.

Why don't you check out www.musicals.net/forums ? People on MdN tend to be less catty.

[blaxx]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 4:31pm

I'll bash you for starting a new thread when you could've added your opinion to one of the other dozens of PQ threads.

[istillbelieve24601]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 4:35pm

Didn't want to start a whole new thread but are they planning on recording a cast recording of The Pirate Queen? If they are, have they announced the recording or release dates yet?

[FallintoLight]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 4:38pm

I commend you on a post well written. I agree with a lot of what you have to say.

[TBone]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 4:39pm

I remember reading that they would be heading into the studio around the end of April, and last night at the theatre people were told that a cast recording would be available around the end of June.
Updated On: 4/7/07 at 04:39 PM

[bnyc]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 4:46pm

AMEN to that!! I agree with your sentiment about these message boards and the nasty comments that abound. I am a singer and actor trying to make it on Broadway myself, and I will always try to make the best of anything rather than look for the worst. Keep on supporting the theatre that you love!

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 4:46pm

No it isn't jealousy or being catty. It is realizing that the show is the biggest pile of **** to ever hit broadway. I don't think that hating a show and saying so means that you aren't a "real theater fan." You say people who hate it are catty and bitchy, but what does that make you? You completly come off as a pretentous asshole trying to make yourself sound like the most important person in the world.

If you can sit here saying it good therefore and say that people saying they hate it are bad, then I can sit here and say that it sucked and anyone who saw it and liked it has absolutly no taste.

ETA-What you are saying (at least to me) is that if Disney suddenly put High School Musical on Broradway we should go support it just because it gives people jobs and not acknowledge that it has brought down any integrity shows on Broadway had left. Updated On: 4/7/07 at 04:46 PM

[jasonf]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 4:49pm

logcabin -- I completely disagree with the spirit of your post. Are we not allowed to or supposed to criticize a show we didn't like? That's nonsense. I saw the show. I went in hoping to love it. I was more than thoroughly disappointed with the whole thing. For me it went beyond "dislike" - I have no wish to see ANYONE fail, but I also am NOT going to support a show that I feel was half-done. The show, with the material available and the talent behind it, could have and SHOULD have been more than it is. You can cite your credentials as much as you want, I have a long list that makes my view point "valid" as well, but my response to your post is not about the show, but your attitude that we should be supporting something JUST because it's theater.

If we go into every show and have no opinion, just blanketly "support" a show good or bad, then what kind of standards are we allowing to run our beloved art-form? If we don't say "this doesn't work" then we're just going to allow any old pile of garbage to clutter our stages rather than striving for truly great works of theater.

I find your post to be insulting and ignorant - not because of your like of the show (you ARE entitled to your opinion) but because of your condescending tone and your claims that it is wrong to criticize.

I don't know why I'm wasting my time - I'm guessing you're a schill involved with the show anyway, but if you're not, then while you may know something about theater, you have a lot to learn about the rights of others to express an opinion.

[changinandhow]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 4:59pm

I don't think logcabin is talking about people criticizing Pirate Queen, but more the catty comments thrown out in every thread about the show. For example, in a thread where someone was asking about rush tickets because they're going in a week, and having someone say "Be sure & check if they're still open then". Comments of that nature.

Sure, you have the right to your opinion and your review. But well structured, constructive reviews are far more appealing and taken far more seriously than those who try to be cute and try to think of as many ways to “bash” a show as they can.

And in that sense, I definitely agree. I'm all for reading reviews of people who didn't enjoy the show--although I may not agree, I do find it interesting to see what other people think.

Although I do have to say that while I agree with logcabin's point, unforunately he is beating a dead horse. These type of comments are not only involving Pirate Queen, but any show a specific BWW-er doesn't like. That's BWW. Updated On: 4/7/07 at 04:59 PM

[blaxx]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:01pm

I agree that his post reeks of shill.

I usually don’t post on forums as I find that most are monopolized by a small group of individuals pushing their own agenda and often bashing others for whatever reasons.

Yes, there is a small group of people monopolizing the boards.
Hint: Any member can post here anytime, and there are thousands of members, if they don't want to express their opinion it doesn't make other's thoughts a monopoly with an agenda.

Also, we all know what the “so called” theatre critics have said about this show.
I can’t help but to feel that these critics and some of the people on this forum have some other agenda going. I found this show VERY enjoyable, as did the entire sold-out audience. Is it a perfect musical? No, but what is?

Yes, these "so called critics" got together one night and decided to ruin the show. The secret monopoly of these boards then joined, and the poor excellent show was trashed. Pleaseeeeee, you want us to take you seriously? New York critics watch hundreds of plays a year, if not more - the show was pretty much trashed by ALL of them. I'm sorry, I doubt that your big conspiracy story has any credibility. Oh, and, yes, there are perfect musicals out there (or that at least aspire to be or come very close) - sorry, The Pirate Queen is not one.

I just can’t understand why so many of you are so catty, nasty and bitchy about this show. Is it jealously? Can’t you get work? If you were “real” supporters and lovers of the theatre, of the “art”, of the theatre community, you wouldn’t be spending so much time bashing this or any other show.

Yes, you're right. The secret monopoly should turn into a fraternity of love and support. Forget all standards of quality, we should just love and support all shows on Broadway, no matter what they turn out to be. Otherwise, we're all jealous unemployed theatre people, even if we don't work in theatre.

[logcabin]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:06pm

aauurrgh.. I vowed not to come back and start posting and defending myself. But, here I am... Anyway, jasonf you completely mistook this. If you read my post I say that everyone has the right to their opinions. I hated Rent, I dislike Wicked, etc. But, I don't come on here bashing the shows and saying what I can in the hopes of them failing. My comments were steered more to those like caitiesus1522 and their mature comments. The show has its faults, no doubt. Is it a great show? No. It has the potential to be great if they had given it some more time and thought. But, my complaint and dislike of these forums is more in the way people use them for bashing, catty comments, bitchy comments, etc. I respect the fact that you disliked the show. But, for some to spend so much energy and time bashing it is so uncalled for. I could sit here for hours and bash Rent or Wicked. By why bother. There's a place for both those shows in the theatre community and on Broadway. Just as there is a place for Pirate Queen. And, once again, I have NO affiliation with the show. I merely enjoyed it for what it was and feel it deserves a break.

[blaxx]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:06pm

Although I do have to say that while I agree with logcabin's point, unforunately he is beating a dead horse. These type of comments are not only involving Pirate Queen, but any show a specific BWW-er doesn't like. That's BWW.

Sorry, that is not BWW, that is art. If it is not liked, it will be criticized as severely as anyone who is exposed to it seems fit - at school, on the internet, TV, newspaper, in the office, anywhere.
I really don't understand why, just because these are boards where people who are interested in theatre post, need to see the bright light of everything. In fact, the more we see, the more critical we get, the bar is raised, and I don't see how that is different anywhere.

[keen on kean]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:11pm

Logcabin - if you have read some of the other threads devoted to PQ since previews began in New York (and some in response to the show's experience in Chicago), you will have noticed a wide range of opinion, analytical method, and emotional attachment to this show. I have not seen PQ, and would not comment substantively until I do, but you have made the same assumption that several of the show's supporters on this board have. Not liking this show (or any particular show) is not the same thing as being anti-Broadway, and wanting to throw actors out of work. Even people who don't like the show at all make appreciative comments about the performers, the set design, the lighting and the costumes. I respect your years of experience in the "business" but it doesn't make your opinion any more valuable than the opinions of the "so called" critics, as you call them, or someone who goes to PQ as his/her first show.

[changinandhow]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:14pm

Sorry, that is not BWW, that is art. If it is not liked, it will be criticized as severely as anyone who is exposed to it seems fit - at school, on the internet, TV, newspaper, in the office, anywhere.

Er, yes, I realize. But since the poster was talking about this board and not comments overheard in the office or anywhere else, I was also.

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:14pm

You know WHY people post things in EVERY thread about Pirate Queen? Because the people who love it get so damn devensive every single time someone says anything negative.

So yeah, it is fun to f*ck with them. People have done it to fanboys and girls of every show and actor.

And don't you dare try to talk to Jason saying anything about me. Since you obviously DONT post on here (like many of us do) you haven't gotten the memo that he is my boyfriend and read the posts before I read it.

He and I both say this stuff. Why? Because it was a piece of **** and we don't want people to waste their time and money with such a crappy show. And because we like to *uck with people like you


ETA-Keen fabulkous post. Even when Jason and I came back we said that costumes were great and the performances were very good for what they were given. Updated On: 4/7/07 at 05:14 PM

[HeyJayNYC]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:24pm

Kudos to you.
I'd venture to say many of the cats on this board are kids who have nothing better to do then spew on their computers. We have become a society of people glued to their keyboards and because of reality TV, a nation of critics who think Simon says it all.
Like a needle in a haystack, the true theatre scribes on here are hard to find beneath the muck..hmmm muckracking.

Good for you..and I am looking forward to PQ on 4/29.

Everyone has an opinion...of course everyone has an a****le too but that's a given..and another quote.

A lot of bitter people think humor has to be cutting and mean...and it doesn't.

And I thought HOLLYWOOD had it over Broadway for mean girls. Nah uh.

[LovinGoodMusicals]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:24pm

"He and I both say this stuff. Why? Because it was a piece of **** and we don't want people to waste their time and money with such a crappy show."


Last time I checked, nobody needed you (or your boyfriend) to tell them NOT to see a show. Let them judge the show for their damn selves. "A piece of ****??" You've got to be kidding me..


logcabin--thank you for your post. I whole-heartedly agree. The responses to this topic proves your point exactly.
Updated On: 4/7/07 at 05:24 PM

[theaterbiz]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:25pm

what a beautiful note from the retired theatre professional. Oy vay - 24 critics united in their view that this show stinks. There wil always be people who will love it. Hey, I loved THE LIFE, but for the people who shelled out hard earned bucks for this show - there should have been a disclaimer ie,

WARNING: No stand out performances. NO original music. Multiple moments where nothing happens. You may experience rage for paying full price. No refunds. Don't operate heavy machinery after seeing this show.

Enough people. This show and its creative team need to react to what we called a mutiny. Drop the curtain. Strike the sets!

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:32pm

We have the right to tell anyone whatever we want to. And most people I actually know who asked me agree.

If I see people here saying the show is awful, I won't go to see it because most people here do have taste. And yes, I thought it wass a piece of ****. Someone asked me if they should see it and I told them I would rather EAT a piece of **** then see it again.

And a retired theater professional? So he CLAIMS. People on here will believe anything. Personally I don't believe anyone's "credentials" until I have met them personally or there is concrete proof

And if you can tell me ot see it why the hell can;t I tell people not to?

And most people who are actually posting about this are not "kids' They are the ones posted about Wicked and going to see High School Musical at every community theater in the country.

If yo uactually read more of my and Jason's posts we REALLY wanted to like it. I mean look who wrote it! But it sucked so why should we sit here and not say anything.

It should have been fabulous it could have. I am not going to say nice things about a half done job especially with the prices of tickets. And i am not going to hide my opinion at all

[B3TA07]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:36pm

this is the longest thread ever
and it doesnt even have two pages yet

[LovinGoodMusicals]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:38pm

"And if you can tell me ot see it why the hell can;t I tell people not to?"

I NEVER told people to see the show. I said, let people judge the show for themselves without you throwing your opinions at them telling them NOT to see it. They could have much different views than you.

And for you to call the show "half-done" is disrespectful to everyone involved within the show. You do NOT know how much work, dedication, and time has been put into this show. You don't have the right to call it "half-done."

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:39pm

I have to agree with blaxx. Though people have disliked the show, even hated it, NO ONE has said "I hated it so much that I hope it failsand all the actors are put out of work and never get a job again". Honestly. I think some people need to take a step back and not flip out at someone because they don't think The Pirate Queen is the best show ever.

[jasonf]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 5:50pm

Just to start off - I liked The Life too - and Lilias White and Chuck Cooper gave BRILLIANT performances there. My Way or the Highway STILL gives me shivers!

OK, I don't need to defend my position on here. I've been posting on this board WAY longer than most -- I'm not an original, but I've been here a while. People know me. Agree with me or disagree with me, I have shown time and again on here that I am not "some kid" who is posting a random opinion on a show. I DO know what I'm talking about. To come on here as a newbie and assume that these are "kids" posting is just ignorant.

To be honest, I would automatically discredit the opinions of anyone who says "anyone who disagrees with me is wrong and a moron" with a sense of superiority and lack of sarcasm. I've said on here "people who don't like PQ have no taste" -- I said it with tongue in cheek - I don't honestly believe that, nor would anyone who's spent any time on this board reading my posts. I have disagreed with several people on this board yet I completely respect them, as I would hope they do me (ie Popular - see, mentioning you again).

That said, to come on here as a new poster and claim that you are fed up with people posting negative or catty remarks about a show that clearly has its share of detractors seems more pointless than kids coming on here to "spew" their opinions all over the forum. THAT shows a lack of maturity, and honestly, as I said above, REEKS of schilling.

LovinGoodMusicals - you sound ignorant as well. People DO need people to tell them what's good and what's not, and here's why. In case you haven't noticed, ticket prices aren't cheap. Sure, if you can drop 100 dollars or even 50 dollars at TKTS all the time and see every show, then GREAT - screw the critics and see whatever you want. However, at the prices shows are running now, I would hate to see people waste their money on a show that really isn't anywhere near worth the cost - or the time involved - to see it. Had I not seen the show for free, I would have very much wanted to see PQ. However, the CONSTANT reports from people who saw it that the show isn't very good would make me think more than once about shelling out my hard earned money when I could be seeing something that more people have enjoyed. One person's opinion may not be worth much, but the overall collection DOES have an impact.

At the same time - what right do you have to criticize the opinions of those of us who didn't like the show? You're free to like the show - I may question your taste in the future, as you no doubt will mine, but you are ENTITLED to your opinion. It's up to each individual to judge whether or not they will listen to any given reviewers thoughts. SOme are better thought out than others. Some are fangirl raves. You make your own mind up based on that.

And for the record, the PQ WAS a piece of ****