Any Doctor Who Fans? **UK AIR-DATE SPOILERS ABOUND**- Page 47

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/19/10 at 8:04pm

Just finished "The Pandorica Opens" and my mind is completely shot to hell. What a damn near perfect episode of any television series (and there is one more episode to go). I am still trying to comprehend what I just saw. Not going to lie, I was starting to doubt Moffatt as being the writer we all hoped he would be, but MY GOD.....how stupid of me. How utterly and pathetically STUPID of me.

Updated On: 6/19/10 at 08:04 PM

[kec]

Posted: 6/19/10 at 9:29pm

*Sob* my mind is still trying to comprehend it as well. I'm still stunned and I was teary towards the end, and especially with what happened to Amy. How are we going to wait until next week?!?!

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/19/10 at 9:46pm

I don't know, but I am about to watch it again to try and pick up on things I might have missed the first go 'round.

Updated On: 6/19/10 at 09:46 PM

[GuitarGirl]

Posted: 6/19/10 at 11:08pm

I liked it, but I did have three issues with it. Which have nothing to do with Matt Smith because, thank goodness!, he was excellent and being a rather awesome Doctor. I did like the beginning as well, and the end was intense.

SPOILERS!

The three things that bothered me were:
1. I didn't care much for any of the characters accept Rory. It's been like that all series, though. But still, when SPOILER Amy got shot SPOILER I didn't feel bad for her. At all.

2. The Alliance thing seemed a bit silly. Something about it just sits wrongly with me, like that these aliens would never ally with each other without killing each other (plus, they all looked a bit silly together, especially the Daleks), that they would never know what to do with the cracks, and that even they would be able to see that, dangerous though the Doctor is, he's done the universe more good than all of them combined.

3. I cared for River Song more in 'Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead'. I don't know why. And, on a lighter note, her outfit was a bit strange, lol.

I'm really excited for next week, though. I want to see how Moffat wraps this all up.

[Taryn]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 1:30am

2. The Alliance thing seemed a bit silly. Something about it just sits wrongly with me, like that these aliens would never ally with each other without killing each other (plus, they all looked a bit silly together, especially the Daleks), that they would never know what to do with the cracks, and that even they would be able to see that, dangerous though the Doctor is, he's done the universe more good than all of them combined.

While I can totally understand skepticism on the whole concept that they'd be able to band together and figure out these cracks, I disagree on your final point. It's not about the Doctor having done all this good fo the universe: it's about the fact that they think he is directly responsible for these cracks in time that are going to destroy the universe. They think that by imprisoning him, they save the universe. All the good he's done doesn't really matter if he destroys the universe in the end.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 3:10am

I agree with Taryn.

I also just read a good deal of critical reviews on the episode and they are all pretty much raves. Thataboy Moffat!

[GuitarGirl]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 8:51am

I feel like one of them would be smart enough to say, "Well, let's force him to fix it, then" instead of locking him up, because it seems like they don't know what they're doing at all. It almost makes them seem stupid, which, despite their being bad, is not the case. That's why they're a threat, because they're smart.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 8:59am

I see it as them saying, "if he lives, all universes are going to come to an end" (and what's the point of being bad when there is nothing to destroy), and they know they can't flat out kill him because he will regenerate. So, they ban together to lock him in a prison that even he can't escape from. That's one of the great things about this episode - the "bad" guys actually believe they are doing something good and the Doctor is no longer seen as the "good" guy in their eyes. He is seen as the ultimate baddy and it scares them. To me, that's brilliant.

[GuitarGirl]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 10:15am

I don't know, I still can't believe it. Especially since the Daleks have already tried to destroy the universe (Stolen Earth/Journey's End).

I think it would have been a better plan to force the Doctor to save the universe, then lock him in the Pandorica.

I'm a bit disappointed, though, because I thought there would be a future version of the Doctor in the Pandorica. I suppose my real problem with this is that the Doctor isn't causing the end of the universe, which makes the whole thing seem a bit unfair. Which would be fine, except the Doctor looks a bit weak now. He doesn't come across as the most feared warrior in the universe. He isn't actually going to destroy it, nor do we see an immediate threat of that (unlike, say, 'Waters of Mars', where the Doctor's sanity should actually be feared for). It would have been fascinating to see a Doctor who could destroy the universe.

The whole thing seems a bit like something that would happen in a children's show, all the villains teaming up to save the day. I know Doctor Who is a family program, but Moffat's never exactly written that way up until this series. It just seems unlikely, like they'd all kill each other first. I mean, (in real life) humans have tried to achieve peace for the common good yet there's still fighting despite that. We could destroy each other, and yet we never stop. These villains hate each other so much more than that, yet they band together?

And seeing all of them in one room made me realize how much I hate the new Daleks.

I guess it's not so much a 'the plot doesn't work' issue as a character issue, as in 'they aren't in character'. Which, since the characters make the plot, could turn out to be the same thing.

Updated On: 6/20/10 at 10:15 AM

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 10:21am

we'll just have to agree to disagree :)

[GuitarGirl]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 10:42am

I guess so. Although I am really excited for next week! And next week could, potentially, be the answer to this debate. :)

[Weez]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 10:50am

Right! Having skipped most of the back end of this thread, I need y'all to advise me: shall I watch the new episode this afternoon and wait all week for the next one like everyone else? Or shall I wait until both this one and next week's are available, even though I won't be able to watch 'em until later on Sunday at the earliest?

[GuitarGirl]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 11:23am

If you don't want to stumble upon spoilers on the internet all week, you should probably watch 'The Pandorica Opens' this afternoon. Even though you'll have to wait a week for the conclusion, you might have a lot of fun theorizing.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 1:49pm

Weez - If you have the stomach for it, I say hold off to watch both back to back. BUT and this is a big BUT, there is so much dropped in our laps in this one that it's fun trying to guess what Moffatt has up his sleeve, which could honestly be anything.

[Taryn]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 3:04pm

I'm a bit disappointed, though, because I thought there would be a future version of the Doctor in the Pandorica. I suppose my real problem with this is that the Doctor isn't causing the end of the universe, which makes the whole thing seem a bit unfair. Which would be fine, except the Doctor looks a bit weak now. He doesn't come across as the most feared warrior in the universe. He isn't actually going to destroy it, nor do we see an immediate threat of that (unlike, say, 'Waters of Mars', where the Doctor's sanity should actually be feared for). It would have been fascinating to see a Doctor who could destroy the universe.

But the whole point is that he isn't causing the end of the universe. That it's unfair, that all of these aliens are mistaken, is the point. I don't see how he doesn't come across as the most feared being in the universe when the threat of him has brought together all these warring races to stop him. I think the brilliancy of it is the mistaken actions that have some root in reality: whatever is going on with the cracks, they are connected to the doctor. I think the idea that they lock him up thinking that he's going to cause the destruction of the universe and, in doing so, possibly inadvertently cause said destruction is pretty brilliant.

I mean, (in real life) humans have tried to achieve peace for the common good yet there's still fighting despite that.

Well, let's be honest: when have we experienced something in real life to this scale? When have we actually been presented with a direct, palpable threat to our world? As cynical as I am about the human condition, I think that the survival instinct is one of the strongest forces out there.

[GuitarGirl]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 6:55pm

Didn't people believe, in the 1960's, that the world would end because of atomic bombs? And even if it's not the universe, it's still a big deal, because the world as we know it is sort of our universe. But countries still continue to make nuclear weapons to this day, still continue to fight.

The problem is, I don't see the Doctor as a threat because I find the gathering of all the warring races unbelievable. It's very ironic that the cracks aren't the Doctor's fault, but that whole thought is overridden by the unbelievability of the alliance. To be honest, the whole episode was going fine until that point, and then I just couldn't help but thinking "This is wrong, wrong, wrong!" It's so out of character.

Next week will either be able to reverse those thoughts or cement them for me.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 7:28pm

"It's very ironic that the cracks aren't the Doctor's fault, but that whole thought is overridden by the unbelievability of the alliance"

Even in the episode with the Weeping Angels, they told the doctor that he would end it all if he sacrificed himself. They know the TARDIS is the one that is going to cause the destruction of everything, and they see the Doctor and the TARDIS as one, since, like they said, "Only the Doctor can fly the TARDIS." It's the same thing if something was to cause the destruction of the Earth - I'm pretty sure we would all put aside our differences to try and save our planet from destruction (ala Independence Day/Armageddon). Like Taryn said, survival overrides everything.

Updated On: 6/20/10 at 07:28 PM

[Taryn]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 7:55pm

Didn't people believe, in the 1960's, that the world would end because of atomic bombs? And even if it's not the universe, it's still a big deal, because the world as we know it is sort of our universe. But countries still continue to make nuclear weapons to this day, still continue to fight.

But here's the big difference: we thought we were going to kill each other with atomic bombs. There's a big difference between being convinced we're all going to wind up killing each other and destroying our world and having an outside force coming in and threatening the whole of humanity. We've never actually had something of the sort in human history.

[kec]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 8:41pm

"The problem is, I don't see the Doctor as a threat because I find the gathering of all the warring races unbelievable. It's very ironic that the cracks aren't the Doctor's fault, but that whole thought is overridden by the unbelievability of the alliance. To be honest, the whole episode was going fine until that point, and then I just couldn't help but thinking "This is wrong, wrong, wrong!" It's so out of character."

I agree with you on some of this. I find it suspicious that the Daleks are in on this "for the good of the universe" stuff considering that they tried to destroy reality at the end of series 4. It will be interesting to see what transpires next week.

[GuitarGirl]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 10:53pm

But you could look at it as the same thing, in a way. Humans are all residents of the same planet. All the aliens in Doctor Who are residents of the same universe. And the Doctor isn't an outside force. He's a part of the same universe (unlike, ironically, the Cybermen) and doesn't even have a planet to represent.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/20/10 at 10:54pm

I think we're reading way too much into this. lol

[kec]

Posted: 6/21/10 at 8:43am

Ah, but isn't that the way of Whovians?

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 6/22/10 at 3:11pm

*back in the US time universe*

SO bummed about the conclusion of The Hungry Earth (I don't recall the name of the episode.) I truly hope that was not the end of Rory and somehow he'll come back when/if the whole time shift gets fixed.

I leave to your *future* talk.

[kec]

Posted: 6/24/10 at 12:40pm

For those who might be interested, Blogtor Who has a clip from The Big Bang on its site (sorry I don't have the link handy). It's not too spoilery -- it's Rory talking to a dead Amy -- which really brought the tears to my eyes. *sniff*

edited to add the link.

The Big Bang Clip Updated On: 6/24/10 at 12:40 PM

[kec]

Posted: 6/25/10 at 2:47pm

Matt Smith was on This Morning in the UK:
Matt Smith on This Morning