Congratulations to Spidey...our BroadwayWorld Idol winner!- Page 55

[BSoBW3]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 2:54pm

"Maybe BSO will now delete the entire thread. "

Well, sorry to disappoint the assholes of BWW. But that's Tiff's calling to delete threads now.

The fact is, for years of trainging and learning correct ability, it is the general populus that judges you.

That's who we - Tiff, myself, and Jailyardguy - are. Sure, I think we all have had training in some form of music. But in the end, it is your peers judging you.

So, what are the requirements? Well, they WERE people who were interested in making a little competition around here - Tiff first mentioned it, and I took her up on the idea. Then JailyardGuy wanted to be a judge and he has musical training so we let him.

What happened with the original thread had nothing to do with the competition, but with the thread itself.

As Tiff can vouch, it isn't easy being a judge...people IMing you all the time. Especially at the beginning when people had ridiculous requests. (Hey, even Tiff asked for the thread to be deleted! And she was fed up with people complaining....not because something was posted and had to be removed.)

Yes, we CHOSE to do this. And we knew, somewhat, that people would complain, etc. And I never regret starting up BWW IDOL. And putting work into it. I never regret deleting the thread for my own personal reasons. And act that was made in haste and that had a negative outcome, but I could care less. I talked through IMs and PMs to people who had a problem with it. People were not involved with Idol or anything decided to get involved. I'm sure they thought they were being superior. But no, they were not.

I've said some harsh things around these parts. Do I take them back? No. My harsher comments were for the people with inflated egos. Call it a pet peeve of mine. And when people go around (before this competition) gloating about their vocal abilities and whatnot....I expect something.

To quote DREAMGILRS - "This IS a business." Thousands of people can sing, dance, act. What makes you so special? Well, in our little community of BWW- what makes you special? Bring it.

[robbiej]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 2:55pm

But valid as what? I guess that's what I'm unclear about.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 2:56pm

I am confused - everyone who started this signed up for something that included judging of their voices and song choices, along with ultimately, one winner. This whole program was never designed for what was often called "A Camp Akiba Tie" when I was a kid - where no one wins and no one loses. That is just not real life.

Tiff, Stephen and Cam have spent countless hours (Tiff moreso than others) trying to not only create the process, but be fair in judging how others have performed.

Was it unrealistic to think that at some point someone would not walk away angry - maybe. But, if your desire is to perform in the real world, then you need to learn that rejection and criticism, even from friends, is part of the process.

I do not have the voice, skill or talent to ever submit anything, but these past few weeks, I have enjoyed listening to the talent of those blessed with ability I never possessed. I do not think any of the judges particularly enjoy criticizing their friends as part of the competition, but they agreed to do it, in part I believe, to help those who needs some constructive feedback in order to further develop their craft and skills.

Not everyone on this board lives in NY or Chicago, LA, or other theater towns, and the chance to get real live feedback from others is of value. It is clear that some in the competition have developed and matured their skills because they have participated and have had someone objective be a sounding board.

If you did not want to subject yourself to criticism and possibly losing the competition, then you should not have signed up in the first place. And, for those who have, and who have shared their voices with the rest of us, thank you.

Off Soapbox. Back to work.
Updated On: 3/13/06 at 02:56 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 2:59pm

i totally want the little fat girl from pig's knuckle, arkansas to win so that we can see how the prize will transform her mama's double-wide. well that and she jiggles like jello when she sings vibrato and that's hot.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:02pm

robbiej:
I have listened to every single song by every person who entered this thing. It is valid because people had a chance to express themselves in a forum they chose to participate in.

We were able to hear people young and not as young, talented and not as talented and find something good in it.

I just think the concept that "competition is always bad" is not a valid one. It is valid because it also gives a bit of that.

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:03pm

"Maybe BSO will now delete the entire thread. "

BSO, lighten up - it was a joke!

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:06pm

I'm going to make Penguin and YWIW my spokespeople now. As people who have nothing invested in this as anything more than as supporters and voters, I value what they say - having followed the competition - very much. This environment (anonymity, not-face-to-face, no professional equipment) surely isn't anyone's ideal. But if this board and using earphones as mics is all we've got, then so be it - I still firmly believe that this has been a positive experience overall, but I'd rather hear other listeners and contestants give their opinions.

(And just for the record, I don't think anyone takes much glee in voting people off. I know my intentions, individually, aren't being put into question, but I speak for many people who are upset that anyone has to go. I've had to dismiss people who are my online and real life friends on here. It's not fun.)

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:07pm

Tiff, I think you explained your motivations and the tsuris its caused you. Again, I am curious about the contestants and I do wonder if SOMMS hit on the fact that most annoys me about American Idol: That people use it as a "shortcut" to fame and fortune, to jumping over the other checkers on the board and announcing "King me!"

I do wonder if, as SOMMS wrote, they do it "In hopes that Marc Shaiman will stumble in and cast them as the next Penny Pingleton?," even though as Tiff wrote: "when there's never been any promise of contracts, money, or exposure beyond this board ..."

Which brings me back to the contestants current and past, it's the ultimate actor's question:

What is your motivation? And be honest.

[Cruel_Sandwich]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:08pm

I think it's rather ridiculous that people are taking this so seriously. It was just meant to be a fun thing, the equivalent of a drunken night at a karaoke bar. Plus, since this is a group of musical theater people, something like this was bound to happen.

Do I regret ever entering BWWIdol? Of course not. I know I'm not the world's best singer or actor, but I did want to get my stuff out there to get some feedback. Especially from people like JAILYARD GUY and THEATERDIVA who were music majors.

In addition, I was curious to hear what everyone else sounded like. And I'm rather floored by the amount of talent that exists here, especially from people you would have never thought had it in them (Like JAC or Spidey). It's always fun to see people working at the top of their game and BWWIdol was no different.

So I definitely think this was a worth the time. And I thank Tiff for putting it together.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:09pm

I'm all for displaying talents. But attempting to create a competition where some people know each other and others don't and some are totally anonymous and others aren't and we're all going to learn something and sing better and be stronger without hurting anyone's feelings and have a great time doing it is idealism at its flakiest. This "contest" in no way resembles "the real world", or professionalism, or the audition process or any of that nonsense. It is rerecording a cheap karaoke recording (hoping no one spent a lot of money to do this) over and over until you are either satisfied or out of time and post it for God knows how many people in cyberspace to listen to and a number of them to comment on however they see fit and either be ripped to shreds or gushed over until they need to get rid of someone and your song was really super awesome, but oh well. I'm not saying it's not fun for everyone, but let's not make this more than it really was - a mock contest that was taken way too seriously.

[robbiej]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:10pm

And that's fine.

And I've never said competition is bad. It's real and it's something people in every line of work need to know how to deal with. But, in most respects, there is a point to competition, be it getting the job, or getting the record contract, or winning the World Series. What's at stake here?

I think, perhaps, that's why this wasn't the best possible way to give people a chance to be heard. It is at once just a fun thing to do; a chance for people to be heard and get feedback, as well as being a competition for...what?

I truly don't doubt anyone's intentions in this. But, like an audition room, BWW is, in some ways, a false reality where we don't even get the luxury of face to face time when discussing and evaluating performances.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:16pm

Mister Matt, have I tried to make it more than that? I took it seriously because it was fun, and people were enjoying it. (And I'll put in again, no one was ripped to shreds. Not even the people who weren't very good.)

I also don't see how people who haven't followed the contest or read the thread can understand the dynamic here. But the point is, I don't see why people are taking it so seriously. It's a forum to be heard for people who otherwise wouldn't have an outlet. That's all I've said it was.

As for the lack of a "reward", I would open Namo's question up to the people who've competed. Why did you do this? I would like to know as well.

(And thanks to Cruel for your answer.)

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:19pm

I have no problem with that.
But there seems to be some kind of desire on the part of many people to make this something it was not.

I see a bunch of people who are very self-righteous rushing to give their "I told you so's." That is also real life, but it is annoying. Especially since many seem not to know or care what people HAVE gotten out of doing this.

I said several times, the whole thing is much like a high school talent show. The equipment is bad, everyone gushes over the nerdy kid who "rocks" then the judges pick some winner.

The format makes it interesting to follow and gives it structure. And gives people an idea of how people think of them in relation to others.

Was this a good thing for a "professional singer" to do? Probably not. It was not and is not professional.

[DG]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:20pm

I obviously missed something along the line. I really assumed that people were participating just out of a sense of fun and something to do that tied into a current pop-culture phenomenon.

When friends get together to hang out, they frequently play board games (or video games these days, I guess.) There's no 'prize' involved, even though people do 'win' or 'lose' - it's simply a way to pass some time and have some fun. For the most part, I got the impression that people here were enjoying this.

[BSoBW3]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:22pm

And I didn't even critique JRB this time, to send him over the edge.

I feel like I am losing my identity.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:23pm

DG, that is exactly how I saw the "competition" of this thing.


I have talked to Kitz, TheatreDiva, and Spiderdj about why they did it. They gave variations I the reasons I stated. It was fun to get their voice out there and see what people thought. Along with some other personal factors.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:26pm

in kitz's case i can concur that it was a very positive thing for her to do. much better than the "dancing" she'd been doing. oh damn, she's not here to defend herself...

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:27pm

Well I did not compete because of recovering from a surhery, but here is why I wanted to.

1. I love to sing. It is my favorite thing to do and it was an excuse to actually make recordings and work on different types of things

2. I love a challenge. I liked that there would be themes and we would have to try new things, and try to make the best out of themes that I didn't like as much or that I couldn't see myself doing it. Plus, challenges are fun.

3. I wanted to hear what people thought. Even if people on here aren't pros or anything like that, they are all musically minded and know what sounds good. I know how I hear myself is not how others hear my voice and I would love to ehar others opinios

4. To make friends. I was in only one or two threads before this, now I have joined many others and have met great people on this board.

And finally, and most importantly

5. TO HAVE FUN! That is what it is about, enjoying yourself. If you don't think that reading what people think (good and bad), sharing music, and everything else this entailed sounded like a lot of fun, you shouldn't have participated.

Looking back at all the reasons I wanted to do this, I really really wish I had been able to do it.

[robbiej]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:27pm

'Was this a good thing for a "professional singer" to do? Probably not. It was not and is not professional.'

Well...there we can definitely agree. I think it can be actually a lot of fun for folks to put their stuff up for others to hear...the high school talent show is a pretty good example. I listened to some of the early clips and was pleasantly surprised by a number of them. But then I saw some of the judging and it got very specific in terms of technique. And I just don't think that's ever a good idea: picking apart someone's technique when you can't even see them. And then, of course, there's the Dench Factor: people who don't have great voices (a la Dame Judy Dench) but can perform the hell out of anything. I guess that's my big problem with the whole thing. Being a performer (esp. a theatre performer) is so much more than just your voice.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:28pm

Thanks guys. This is all I have to say on the matter, unless something new comes up or some current and/or former contestents pipe up.

And I rustled up Namo's thread after the first Idol was deleted.

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.cfm?thread=883685&boardname=off

Valid points on both sides of the issue were raised (pretty much a rehash of what we have here), but I'm linking it so you can see what people said on why they decided to enter.

We're going in circles now and it seems like we're not going to come to an agreement. It's a difference in ideology and opinion and no one's willing to budge.


ETA: I agree, Robbiej. Have all along. It IS more than just your voice. Which, I think, is why someone like Kitz has gone very far. She's got the charisma and extra oomph that makes her a compelling performer. Not just singer, but *performer*.

Updated On: 3/13/06 at 03:28 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:29pm

Everyone is just going around in circles.

I think Namo does ask an important question - what were the motivations of those who originally participated?

For those who continually want to bash it, well, where were you when this started? (Except for Namo, who raised similar issues back in January) Why, at this moment in time do you find it important to bring up criticism of the concept itself? What is your motivation to jump in now? I do not think anyone thought this was a perfect format for people to show their skills, but it was what was available. And, if you are not interested, or find it to be lacking in merit, then ignore it.

There are people I have listened to via this competition who I would never had thought could sing they way they do. I believe it has created and fostered some new friendships and relationships that otherwise might never had existed. Is it the do-all, end-all of professionalism and the "real world" no. But, I will say again, it has given some who otherwise might not have immediate access to feedback and comments on their skills.

We may just have to agree to disagree, and move on.
Updated On: 3/13/06 at 03:29 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:30pm

I signed up to help support what I thought was a fun and creative idea--a brilliant use of this technology. I did not sign up because I thought it could make my career. I thought I would get more visibility as a performer on BWW, but I did not have wild fantasies that a Broadway producer or writer was going to listen to those amateur recordings and hunt me down to make me a star. That's just silly.

I crave constructive criticism. I know I am not flawless. But, robbie's right--this ain't the place to get professional feedback. I thought I would get "audience feedback", which I did.

However, the problem I have been having is that I get told week after week that I am virtually flawless, but that that's not good enough. I need to step it up more. And, even when I did--they still wanted MORE. Well, in this format, that wasn't gonna happen.

And, peng is right--this wasn't the place for pros to play. When I signed up, there were at least 3 other pros signed up. 2 dropped out before Round 1. The other after Round 3 or 4. That's when it became clear that I was the only particpant being judged on a grading curve (supposedly).

I do thank the judges for their hard work. And that is why I needed to leave. Let the game be fun. Removing me should make it fun again. So, let's not be upset. Let's just have fun again if that is possible.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:31pm

robbie: That is true and is something many of us following this always tried to take into account.
My favorites were the ones I could actually "feel" the performance of despite the obstacles.



papa- Kitz hasn't stopped her dancin'. She just wanted to add a new spice to the act.

[BSoBW3]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:33pm

NAMO -

The original point of this was to sing BROADWAY songs.
When Tiff and I came up with the rounds, we compromised on a few things...but it was always centered around musical theatre.

I think people joined so their BWW peers AND average theatre-going folk could hear them sing.

Tiff and I had a lot of plans for this competition and things I won't go into that will never happen.


AND I WILL SAY WHAT WE ARE ALL THINKING: It's a shame bwaysinger was unable to compete!

Updated On: 3/13/06 at 03:33 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 3/13/06 at 3:36pm

'guin, i thought that's what got you into trouble usually, "feeling" the performers.