Domestic Partnership vs. Marriage- Page 2

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 2:26am

Thanks DGrant, I was just worried that someone would take it personally or something, since I know a lot of people here use it.

I know what you mean about the semantics involved. A friend of mine had a problem with it, because everyone referred to him and his boyfriend as partners because they'd been together for 15 years. But they didn't like the word "partners" and never used it to describe each other, but they weren't married so they didn't want to use "husband" either. They were left with boyfriend because that's the best they could describe their relationship in the limited terms society currently allows.

That's why I originally said I support the idea of gay marriage, not domestic partnerships. Make it legal and give everyone the opportunity to have the actual step involved (like with straight couples) to progress from boyfriend to husband, without having to dance around the issue of when you consider the commitment important enough to move from one to the next.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 3:33am

I understand what you mean, orange. I find the term "lover" when meaning boyfriend or husband to make me secretly cringe. It's just so damn 80s fey!

But partner is a great word for a spouse---if people treated it like a partnership, they might survive and have a long lasting relationship. I use boyfriend and husband.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 3:44am

My partner of 11 years (no longer together) and I had that problem. But we stuck with partners because 'boyfriend' was too casual for us. We were so much more than boyfriends.

I'm not fond of husband... it sounds so, I don't know... forced.

[cturtle]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 3:49am

yes, DD, that's why we call each other partners as well. at 7.5 years together, we are WAY past the boyfriend stage. if we could marry, SPOUSE would be a nice gender-general term. we'd fit right in with everyone else.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 4:11am

Don't apologize about the semantics. I really don't think that there's one commonly accepted "appropriate" term a this point.

Two of my closest friends got married last year. Because of all the friends and family across the country, they had three ceremonies -- the official wedding with the vows and exchange of the rings in Seattle (where they had met and had many friends -- 80+ made the ceremony), a reception in Iowa (where one of the couple was from and had several family members), and a cake cutting ceremony in DC (where they were currently living at the time -- they've since moved to Chicago -- where they again had many friends and family members). Incidentally, I flew to two of three.

To this day, depending on the timing and circumstance and who they're talking to, they may refer to one another as "partner," "lover," "husband," "spouse" or, still, "boyfriend." Neither has settled on an everyday terminology and frankly, they don't seem to think or worry too much about it, unless, they're in a political situation (they fought very hard in vain to get DC to issue them a marriage license) and the press is somehow involved -- then it's definitely "spouse" or "husband."

The issue of "marriage" may seem to be a rather cosmetic one to many -- gay or straight -- until one is confronted with a legal situation where the distinction actually has crucial significance. Several years ago, when I was in grad school, one of my best friends was a lesbian named Elva who had been with her "partner" Susan for some two decades. Elva had helped raise and was basically co-parent with Susan's son David from her previous marriage -- for all intents and purposes Susan and Elva had been David's parents since he was 2 years old.

One day while we were in school, Elva received a call that David (who was then 19) had been mugged and was very seriously injured and in a coma in a local hospital (he'd been clubbed in the head with a metal pipe). Elva immediately left to be by his side. Susan was out of town on a business trip. Elva got to the hospital and asked to see David. The staff asked to see her identification and after several very rude questions about who she was and what her relationship was with the "victim" she was told that she was NOT a family member and, as such, had no right to enter his hospital room or make any medical decisions on his behalf.

Just so you know, David was/is white (as is his mother, Susan); Elva is a dark-skinned Chicana -- clearly not biologically-related to David. Without going through all of the unpleasant confrontations that occurred at that point (I'm sure you can imagine the frustration and anger Elva expressed to every single nurse, doctor and administrator within shouting distance), the bottom line was that, Elva was a "non-person" to them. To them, she had absolutely no right -- legal or otherwise -- to be able to see or even receive health status of someone who had been, under most definitions, her "SON" since he was nearly an infant. And, without going into the details, there was more than a bit of homophobia going on in the situation, once the exact nature of she and Susan's and David's relationships became clear.

His biological mother, Susan, the moment Elva contacted her, rushed to the airport and managed to get to the hospital about two hours later -- at which point she AND Elva were allowed to enter David's hospital room. Thankfully, David emerged from the coma soon after (and all three are fine to this day). But, just imagine if some critical medical decisions had been needed during those hours Elva had been kept out of the room -- his family would have had absolutely no input in them.

Afterwards, they drew up various "power of attorney" documents etc..... just in case such a situation ever occurred again, but understand, this is precisely the situation gay couples (and their children) must endure all the time in this country to this day.

Aside from sheer bigotry and homophobia, there is absolutely no reason that a couple -- gay or straight -- that has been together for years, been stable, paid their taxes, been good neighbors and parents, raised their children and contributed to their community's well-being shouldn't be able to participate in that exclusive bundle of 1500+ rights, benefits and privileges that heterosexual couples receive automatically under the law when they sign their marriage licenses. It's not only unfair to them, it potentially and actually endangers the children they are raising (more than a million children presently being raised by gay and lesbian parents today).

Call it what you will -- "marriage," "domestic partnership" etc.... -- if the rights granted by that little slip of paper aren't the same for straights and gays, then ignorance and bigotry are at work and beyond the simple, reprehensible unfairness of the situation, very real lives (sometimes those of innocent children) are being endangered and put at risk.

Updated On: 6/30/05 at 04:11 AM

[amasis]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 4:29am

Thank you for that, Margo. 1500+?! WOW.

And jrb - I think what you said in your last post is the reason I personally always prefer the term 'partner'. Especially having been raised in a culture where the wife tend to have less rights than the husband.
Updated On: 6/30/05 at 04:29 AM

[CostumeMistress]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 10:06am

Margo, I think the Schaivo case taught us that even straight, married people have an awfully difficult time getting medical rights. Sanctity of marriage, my ass... bunch of hypocritical politicians... anywho...

I myself like the term S.O. (significant other). I use it myself, since I'm dating an older fella and it feels sort of junior-high to call him my "boyfriend."

Posted: 6/30/05 at 10:32am

I just wish that my parents weren't in such denial that I could actually look for a boyfriend/eventually partner...They haven't even accepted the fact that I am gay.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 10:53am

"Only marriage gives us equal rights--there are many rights we can't have no matter what without marriage--making your foreign BF a US citizen for one."

That is EXACTLY what Jarico and I are facing now. Though Spain has legalized gay marriage, they have not approached the issue of immigration for partners.

Incidentally, two years ago my appendix burt and I was rushed into emergency surgery. It was coincidence that it happened when Jarico was in Chicago during his summer stay. Though we never said anything, the hospital staff immediately recognized our relationship and he was by my side until they wheeled me into the OR at which point the nurse said to him, "You better kiss him now because we have to get him ready." When I was in the room, he was allowed to stay past visiting hours with me as long as I wanted. He was listed as my immediate family and I was grateful that I was in a place that treated us as any other married couple. I've always understood how lucky I was to be there.

Posted: 6/30/05 at 10:59am

Matt - Robert and I had EXACTLY the same experience - right down to the appendix! We did have to make sure everything was in place paperwork-wise, but after that, we got all the same considerations. I had assumed it was because we're in Cali - I'm very happy that you had the same experience.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 1:04pm

Incidentally, the Susan and Elva situation happened in Boston back in the early 90s. One would assume now that gay marriage is legal there, that hospital has changed its policies.

[stonewall2]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 8:41pm

Well, this has certainly generated some terrific discussions- thank you! I too, dislike the term "partner", but "girlfriend" sounds too juvenile, "lover" too intimate for average discussion,and "wife" just doesn't sound right.
Yes, we registered with the city of Rochester, but it really didn't mean anything-legally-since we don't live in the city. The state of NY does not recognize the piece of paper,since neither of us are state employees. All we want is to be respected as a couple and to be permitted to live in peace with the same rights that are accorded to to our next-door neighbors.
I am tired of fighting for my children in a court system that thinks that because I love a woman, I should not be permitted to love my children,and heaven forbid that they should love me(the Judge hands down her decision 2 weeks from tomorrow). Hell, I am just tired of fighting-period......

[vbplayer]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 8:53pm

I am for domestic partnership or marriage. It's a preference thing. For me after 17 years with my guy, it dosen't matter.

[shlamdiddly]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 9:20pm

"The excuse given is that incentives need to be given to keep the species in production"

incentives? I think there are enough teenage mothers and Catholic families(i.e. people who don't believe in birth control) to "keep the species in production." Not to mention the people in third world countries that can't afford it.

[Plum]

Posted: 6/30/05 at 10:49pm

Syphilis Rates Drop in Countries with Gay Marriage Laws