#26
Posted: 8/1/12 at 4:29pm
Well it's certainly not better than MAME.
Greatest Films Of All Time Lists — Page 2
#27
Posted: 8/1/12 at 4:30pm
Mysterious -- I don't think VERTIGO has aged badly aesthetically at all. My criticisms have more to do with a rather dated quality of some of the sets, which look just exactly like sets on a soundstage somewhere. I have a friend who finds the whole Gavin Elster scenario involving Madeleine just too farfetched to believe in, and I can see the point, up to a point. For me, VERTIGO is one of those movies where things like that become quibbles rather than serious problems.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#28
"I don't think VERTIGO has aged badly aesthetically at all. My criticisms have more to do with a rather dated quality of some of the sets, which look just exactly like sets on a soundstage somewhere."
I understood what you meant, and I agree. We're using different phrases to describe the same thing.
Posted: 8/1/12 at 4:40pm
"I don't think VERTIGO has aged badly aesthetically at all. My criticisms have more to do with a rather dated quality of some of the sets, which look just exactly like sets on a soundstage somewhere."
I understood what you meant, and I agree. We're using different phrases to describe the same thing.
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#29
Posted: 8/1/12 at 6:51pm
"Mulholland Drive is not the Lynch film I expected, though."
Whatja want, ERASERHEAD? LOL!
Whatja want, ERASERHEAD? LOL!
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#30
Posted: 8/1/12 at 7:02pm
I've found over the years that of all of Lynch's films, MULHOLLAND DRIVE is the one I return to more than any other.
#31
Posted: 8/1/12 at 10:48pm
Sight & Sound has been shuffling these same movies for the past 40+ years. Charlie Chaplin and Ingmar Bergman have fallen out of favor recently. I used to take their lists seriously as a young kid interested in CINEMA, but I've grown up and realized they have an agenda. Most importantly, matured enough to realized it's all subjective, with no "expert" with any more true validity over anybody else.
Singin' in the Rain? Nowhere nearly as good as The Bandwagon.
Vertigo? Still gliding over the 20 years it was a "lost classic".
Singin' in the Rain? Nowhere nearly as good as The Bandwagon.
Vertigo? Still gliding over the 20 years it was a "lost classic".
"Through The Sacrifice You Made, We Can't Believe The Price You Paid..For Love!"
#32
Posted: 8/1/12 at 10:53pm
I can understand including Singin' in the Rain in a list of only musicals, but if this list wanted to include a musical, I would easily put Cabaret and The Wizard of Oz there before it. Each of those movies I find brilliant and much more deserving.
I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.
#33
Posted: 8/1/12 at 11:05pm
I really get tired of the "heaviness" of critics' lists. Just reading through that made my feet get stuck in the mud.
Ultimately, it's dreary and narrow in scope. They pick the same kind of movie, over and over again.
A "film" is only good if it's an intense, obsessive drama or message picture.
Blah. Boring. Predictable.
I'm not knocking the films chosen individually, but collectively it shows no variance in taste here. It's like saying, "my favorite color is purple," and repeating it 50 times. Really? That's all you like?
If everything is "intense," then nothing is. It's all the same note, with precious few exceptions.
No spice of life here.
Ultimately, it's dreary and narrow in scope. They pick the same kind of movie, over and over again.
A "film" is only good if it's an intense, obsessive drama or message picture.
Blah. Boring. Predictable.
I'm not knocking the films chosen individually, but collectively it shows no variance in taste here. It's like saying, "my favorite color is purple," and repeating it 50 times. Really? That's all you like?
If everything is "intense," then nothing is. It's all the same note, with precious few exceptions.
No spice of life here.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#34
Posted: 8/1/12 at 11:06pm
My question that arises when there is a noticeable surrealist bent on this list is where is Bunuel? Where is Un Chien Andalou? Some films on this list are pretty much representations of film form or genre. Man with the Movie Camera shows how much can be done documenting real people. Rashomon perfected a whole new way of how viewers perceive narrative. Psycho and Battleship Potemkin are films that are remembered as much for how they were created in its form. It is not that these are not great films, but how they change film is more reflected on their ranking and appearance. But again, if the trend was surrealism where are some of the masters and creators of the form?
I would have honestly thought Blue Velvet would be the ranked Lynch film, at least if I were picking that would have been my choice.
I would have honestly thought Blue Velvet would be the ranked Lynch film, at least if I were picking that would have been my choice.
Updated On: 8/2/12 at 11:06 PM
#35
Posted: 8/1/12 at 11:23pm
best12bars owns this thread.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#36
Posted: 8/1/12 at 11:24pm
le Chien Andalou might be too surreal, lol. anyway, I think Fritz Lang's Metropolis is a masterpiece and I"m happy to see it on the list.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#37
Posted: 8/1/12 at 11:29pm
I've never heard of "Tokyo Story" but it sounds really stupid. What's it about?
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#38
Posted: 8/1/12 at 11:30pm
I would add DEAD MAN WALKING to any list like this as well, but seeing as it was made after 1970, it would never qualify. Neither would A RIVER RUNS THROUGH IT, THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS or OVERBOARD. (Kidding about the last one. Kind of)
#39
Posted: 8/2/12 at 12:36am
As most others have said, it's kinda the same old list as always, with the same choices, slightly shuffled around. Vertigo is probably my fave Hitch--tied with Rear Window (odd, as I usually find Jimmy Stewart hard to take--sorta another era's Tom Hanks who I find just as insufferable), but I can understand the statement made here that it used to be vastly underated (apparently), and now is kinda overated.
Surprised to see The Mirror so high. Has it recently been rediscovered? It's a beautiful film--but that's the only real impression I remember from it.
I think Best said it best. The fact that, aside from a very few choices, every film has to have such gravitas, just starts to feel obnoxious--like some grad student who surrounds his bookcases with all of the thickest classics he can think of. I love Tokyo Story, but it's the kind of film I even wonder if everyone asked has even seen (then again if they are connected to Sight and Sound, they probably have). I dunno, it just seems like a list made by a bunch of old, white, English-language straight guys who felt obliged to throw in the random well known foreign film (or silent like Sunrise--a GORGEOUS film I only recently saw, but one that always feels like an obligation to be included). "Well we can't have a legit list without throwing in something by Tarkovsky, or Ozu, so which film is currently considered their best?"
Surprised to see The Mirror so high. Has it recently been rediscovered? It's a beautiful film--but that's the only real impression I remember from it.
I think Best said it best. The fact that, aside from a very few choices, every film has to have such gravitas, just starts to feel obnoxious--like some grad student who surrounds his bookcases with all of the thickest classics he can think of. I love Tokyo Story, but it's the kind of film I even wonder if everyone asked has even seen (then again if they are connected to Sight and Sound, they probably have). I dunno, it just seems like a list made by a bunch of old, white, English-language straight guys who felt obliged to throw in the random well known foreign film (or silent like Sunrise--a GORGEOUS film I only recently saw, but one that always feels like an obligation to be included). "Well we can't have a legit list without throwing in something by Tarkovsky, or Ozu, so which film is currently considered their best?"
#40
Posted: 8/2/12 at 12:38am
And where is SPLASH? TO WONG FOO? CLUE? MEAN GIRLS??
#41
Posted: 8/2/12 at 1:21am
I fully admit, I only ever watched Sunrise because it was on the list. Beautiful film, great performances (slut-shaming story but then again, it was the 20s), but I agree with Besty and Eric even though I will also seek out films on the list that I have not seen. There just seems to be obligations made to this list. This is why I like when the critic and director picks are singled out. A critic like Robin Wood stating among films are I Walked with a Zombie, Marnie, and Heaven's Gate are some of the best films ever is way more interesting than some critics/directors making sure not to forget a film by a French New Wave director or whether or not to make the first two Godfather movies one pick or two picks because a Kurosawa film needs to be on the list.
#42
Posted: 8/2/12 at 8:15am
As for "Singin' in the Rain," I love the movie. It's one of my favorites, but it's pretty much a what-you-see-is-what-you-get film. It's not one of those movies that reveals fresh subtleties or added nuances with repeated viewings. I've seen it dozens of times ever since I was a teenager. I appreciate it quite a bit, especially the ingenious story/screenplay (by Comden and Green) the performances and the staging. It's probably the best "jukebox musical" ever put on film (sorry, Mamma Mia). And one of the funniest films as well. Yes, high praise!
But these critics are also film buffs and historians, and most of them know that "Singin' in the Rain" was vastly under-appreciated when it first came out. Why? Two words: Gene Kelly. The man became a first-class jerk in Hollywood with the release of "An American In Paris" a year earlier. That movie went on to win six Oscars, including Best Picture plus a special award for Kelly's choreography, beating out such heavyweights as A Place in the Sun and A Streetcar Named Desire. Kelly wasn't humble about it in the least. In fact, the reverse. He was the annoying "king of the world" that year. Just ask people who were around at the time (I have). Ask Debbie Reynolds how fun he was to work with during "Singin' in the Rain." Ask her how welcoming he was and appreciative of her talent. Ask the publicity department VPs how they were told "not to bother much with this one" and focus on "Ivanhoe" for awards promotion instead. Don't get me wrong. Kelly was a professional, but he was also a jerk. Many felt he needed to be taught a lesson.
Flash forward to the next year's Academy Awards, where some including Kelly thought he had topped his previous achievements, and "Singin' in the Rain" received just two Oscar nominations (for Jean Hagen and the film's scoring), and that's it. And no wins. Kelly officially had "Hollywood cooties" that year. Their community had had enough of him and his swaggering attitude.
He left the country after that for a few years to make a trio of movies for MGM and cool down a bit (also to help him with his income taxes, thank you, Mittens). The Hollywood lesson worked, but unfortunately the golden age of MGM musicals was also coming to an end. Timing is everything.
I think "Singin' in the Rain" is viewed today (by the film folks) as a movie that didn't get its fair share of accolades or success when it was first released, just like "Citizen Kane." And "An American in Paris" is viewed as a movie that was overly lauded with undue awards and popularity. As a result, I now feel that "An American In Paris" has been shafted for posterity, and "Singin' in the Rain" has been placed far too high on a pedestal.
It's all about overcompensation to make a point. People swaying far enough in an attempt to skew the perspective.
...
And yes, I feel that if "Citizen Kane" had won ten Oscars and become one of the most financially successful movies of all time, it wouldn't be anybody's #1 top pick for best film. You would have been hearing the "overrated" rants for the past seventy years.
People love underdogs and outcasts. At least critics do. It helps validate their relevance, too.
But these critics are also film buffs and historians, and most of them know that "Singin' in the Rain" was vastly under-appreciated when it first came out. Why? Two words: Gene Kelly. The man became a first-class jerk in Hollywood with the release of "An American In Paris" a year earlier. That movie went on to win six Oscars, including Best Picture plus a special award for Kelly's choreography, beating out such heavyweights as A Place in the Sun and A Streetcar Named Desire. Kelly wasn't humble about it in the least. In fact, the reverse. He was the annoying "king of the world" that year. Just ask people who were around at the time (I have). Ask Debbie Reynolds how fun he was to work with during "Singin' in the Rain." Ask her how welcoming he was and appreciative of her talent. Ask the publicity department VPs how they were told "not to bother much with this one" and focus on "Ivanhoe" for awards promotion instead. Don't get me wrong. Kelly was a professional, but he was also a jerk. Many felt he needed to be taught a lesson.
Flash forward to the next year's Academy Awards, where some including Kelly thought he had topped his previous achievements, and "Singin' in the Rain" received just two Oscar nominations (for Jean Hagen and the film's scoring), and that's it. And no wins. Kelly officially had "Hollywood cooties" that year. Their community had had enough of him and his swaggering attitude.
He left the country after that for a few years to make a trio of movies for MGM and cool down a bit (also to help him with his income taxes, thank you, Mittens). The Hollywood lesson worked, but unfortunately the golden age of MGM musicals was also coming to an end. Timing is everything.
I think "Singin' in the Rain" is viewed today (by the film folks) as a movie that didn't get its fair share of accolades or success when it was first released, just like "Citizen Kane." And "An American in Paris" is viewed as a movie that was overly lauded with undue awards and popularity. As a result, I now feel that "An American In Paris" has been shafted for posterity, and "Singin' in the Rain" has been placed far too high on a pedestal.
It's all about overcompensation to make a point. People swaying far enough in an attempt to skew the perspective.
...
And yes, I feel that if "Citizen Kane" had won ten Oscars and become one of the most financially successful movies of all time, it wouldn't be anybody's #1 top pick for best film. You would have been hearing the "overrated" rants for the past seventy years.
People love underdogs and outcasts. At least critics do. It helps validate their relevance, too.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Updated On: 8/2/12 at 08:15 AM
#43
Posted: 8/2/12 at 9:39am
Sorry, Best, but I'm not seeing anything "dreary" or "blah" about CITIZEN KANE, RULES OF THE GAME, 2001, MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA, PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC, or 8 1/2 -- these are all films made with a lot of passion and intelligence and energy, they really light up the screen. I'm actually surprised at how comparatively energetic this year's list really is. Yeah, there are the usual suspects, which I suspect is what you were actually complaining about, that's not going to change, but the appearance of Vertov's MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA in the Top Ten is a real surprise, and a welcome one I think. Have there ever been so many silent films in the Top Ten before?
Namo, TOKYO STORY is a film about a family in Tokyo. A very quiet understated drama from Yasujiro Ozu, maybe the most acclaimed Japanese director. It is a fine film, by any standard. I may not think it is quite at the level of the rest of the films on these lists, but I can tell you that whatever else it may be, stupid it certainly ain't.
Namo, TOKYO STORY is a film about a family in Tokyo. A very quiet understated drama from Yasujiro Ozu, maybe the most acclaimed Japanese director. It is a fine film, by any standard. I may not think it is quite at the level of the rest of the films on these lists, but I can tell you that whatever else it may be, stupid it certainly ain't.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
Updated On: 8/2/12 at 09:39 AM
#44
Posted: 8/2/12 at 9:46am
As I said before, nothing wrong with the chosen films individually. It's the overall one-note heaviness and sameness in tone that I find "dreary" and "blah," absolutely.
Throw in some comedies, for Christ's sake! God forbid they pick just one "popular" choice, too, something that actually made more than $10 million at the box office.
It's a pretentious list overall. Like the guy who has nothing but black clothes in his wardrobe.
Throw in some comedies, for Christ's sake! God forbid they pick just one "popular" choice, too, something that actually made more than $10 million at the box office.
It's a pretentious list overall. Like the guy who has nothing but black clothes in his wardrobe.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
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#45
I'm with Roscoe on this. I huge tonal variety there.
Or maybe I just love heavy, pretentious movies that strike the same notes.
And maybe I just don't see them that way.
Posted: 8/2/12 at 9:49am
I'm with Roscoe on this. I huge tonal variety there.
Or maybe I just love heavy, pretentious movies that strike the same notes.
And maybe I just don't see them that way.
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#46
Posted: 8/2/12 at 9:50am
Fair enough.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#47
Posted: 8/2/12 at 9:55am
I take the point about a perceived "serious" tone to the list, but I see nothing one-note heavy or "same in tone" about such disparate films as MAN WITH A MOVIE CAMERA (a fascinating silent film about a day in the life of a city), RULES OF THE GAME (a marvelous comedy/drama of doings among the very rich that provoked riots at its initial screenings), or Fellini's 8 1/2, one of the most magical life-affirming works of art ever brought to the screen that is also laugh out loud funny. Even the war-horse CITIZEN KANE pulses with humor and life in damn near every minute ("I lost a million dollars last year, I'll lose a million dollars this year, I expect to lose a million dollars next year! You know, Mr. Thatcher, at the rate of a million dollars a year, we'll have to close this place in sixty years.").
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
Updated On: 8/2/12 at 09:55 AM
#48
Yeah, I think the lack of out-and-out comedies or farces is simply that there aren't nearly as many truly great ones. I'll try to think of some great comedies that, to me, can stand up alongside "Kane" and "8 1/2" and "The Rules of the Game," three movies that -- I think rightfully so -- often end up near the top of these silly lists.
Off the top of my head, of comedies that never get too serious, I'd say "Annie Hall," "Smiles of a Summer Night," "Duck Soup," and "His Girl Friday" come pretty close.
I just like a movie with something on its mind.
EDIT: I'd also love to add "Make Way for Tomorrow," again from the great Leo McCarey. Its streak of melancholy is ultimately -- and deliberately -- overwhelming, but in getting there, its comedy glitters as genuinely funny in a way most comedies can only dream of.
Posted: 8/2/12 at 10:09am
Yeah, I think the lack of out-and-out comedies or farces is simply that there aren't nearly as many truly great ones. I'll try to think of some great comedies that, to me, can stand up alongside "Kane" and "8 1/2" and "The Rules of the Game," three movies that -- I think rightfully so -- often end up near the top of these silly lists.
Off the top of my head, of comedies that never get too serious, I'd say "Annie Hall," "Smiles of a Summer Night," "Duck Soup," and "His Girl Friday" come pretty close.
I just like a movie with something on its mind.
EDIT: I'd also love to add "Make Way for Tomorrow," again from the great Leo McCarey. Its streak of melancholy is ultimately -- and deliberately -- overwhelming, but in getting there, its comedy glitters as genuinely funny in a way most comedies can only dream of.
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Updated On: 8/2/12 at 10:09 AM
#49
Posted: 8/2/12 at 10:14am
I think there are plenty of truly great comedies, many of which would easily deserve a place in the Top Ten, there's a valid point about comedies not getting the attention they deserve. I'd gladly see Keaton's THE GENERAL higher up the list, even in the Top Slot. And Chuck Jones' ONE FROGGY EVENING, one of the funniest films ever made that just happens to be one of the grimmest as well.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
Updated On: 8/2/12 at 10:14 AM
#50
Posted: 8/2/12 at 11:47am
I would have honestly thought Blue Velvet would be the ranked Lynch film, at least if I were picking that would have been my choice.
My thought as well. I love Mulholland Drive (and remember being in the minority in that opinion upon its release), but Blue Velvet was really the landmark film for Lynch and I'd also rate Lost Highway just slightly above Mulholland Drive for its artistry and creativity.
If I could only choose one comedy to put on that list, it would probably be The Philadelphia Story.
My question that arises when there is a noticeable surrealist bent on this list is where is Bunuel?
Seriously. The Exterminating Angel is in my top twenty. Brilliant on so many levels.
My thought as well. I love Mulholland Drive (and remember being in the minority in that opinion upon its release), but Blue Velvet was really the landmark film for Lynch and I'd also rate Lost Highway just slightly above Mulholland Drive for its artistry and creativity.
If I could only choose one comedy to put on that list, it would probably be The Philadelphia Story.
My question that arises when there is a noticeable surrealist bent on this list is where is Bunuel?
Seriously. The Exterminating Angel is in my top twenty. Brilliant on so many levels.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
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