Michael Moore

[Gothampc]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 10:22am

I'm sure Michael Moore is in all his glory now that Osama Bin Laden has quoted him.

[CurtainUp2]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 11:18am

And that's just what Bin Laden wants you to think. Nothing delights him more than seeing the U.S. polarized and divided and everyone at each other's throats. That's why he's careful not to favor one candidate over the other. He doesn't want to see the country come together in support of either one. I think we should stop playing into his hand. United we stand, divided we fall.

That said... Unite behind Kerry! Vote for Change!

Updated On: 10/30/04 at 11:18 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 11:27am

Yes, you're right Goth. People in this country should not speak at all, lest some one else hear them. Ever.

Updated On: 10/30/04 at 11:27 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 11:36am

Goth--why did George Bush allow Bin Ladin to live?

Why didn't George Bush punish Bin Ladin for 9/11?

Why did George Bush squander the opportunity to unite the world AGAINST Bin Ladin and Islamist extremism?

Why did George Bush go to Iraq and not find Bin Ladin "dead or alive"?

Is it because George Bush was saying "I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him . . . to be honest with you. . . . I truly am not that concerned about him."

Is it because George Bush said "Well, deep in my heart, I know the man is on the run if he's alive at all. Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not? We haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is -- really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission. Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just -- he's a person who's now been marginalized."

Goth? Goth? Earth to Goth?

Updated On: 10/30/04 at 11:36 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 11:51am

It's all Michael Moore's fault. Goth?

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 11:56am

Hahahahaha I love how you're all addressing Goth as a poor kid who needs help waking up. A most appropriate strategy, IMO.

[Broadway Matt]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 1:33pm

they were able to track down Saddam well enough, and he was in a friggin hole! was it really beyond their capabilities to spot a 7-foot-tall parade float with a ponderous white beard and a dialysis machine??

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 1:34pm

Apparently he's in a much more cleverly concealed hole. With a brown curtain.

[Plum]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 1:40pm

To be completely fair, the terrain in Afghanistan is an absolute bitch to navigate. Hidey-holes in someone's basements are a whole lot easier to find than random caves in extremely mountainous regions.

BUT it's also very much worth noting the Bush probably didn't send enough troops to Afghanistan right away. By deploying gradually and spreading out, he gave bin Laden plenty of time to run to the nether regions by the Pakistani border, or wherever he is right now.

Oh, and Michael Moore does some good things (I love the "slacker tour") but also annoys the crap out of me. Updated On: 10/30/04 at 01:40 PM

[lovettespies]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 2:29pm

Goth still hasn't replied. I wonder why. hmmmmmmmmm interesting.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 2:51pm

I'm replying now love.

It's sad that this turns into an anti-Bush thread. It's about Michael Moore, not Bush. Moore's ego is so big, it's all about him and nobody else.

Updated On: 10/30/04 at 02:51 PM

[lovettespies]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 2:57pm

True, but as i said in another thread replying to you, he's an entertainer involved in politics, not the President of the United States.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 3:00pm

No, my reply was not about Bush. It was about how you seemed to be implying that people should not speak out, lest somebody like Osama might hear them. I mean, are you actually suggesting that? Is freedom of speech just a theory that people should theoretically fight and die to defend but never, ever actually use lest their speech be quoted? It does appear as if that is what you are suggesting.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 3:00pm

"entertainer" is not the word that I would choose.

My point, whether concisely made or not, is that if OBL is quoting Moore, than that feeds Moore's ego all the more. I've not seen any of Moore's movies, so I can't comment. If he had quoted Michael Jackson or Liza Minnelli, I would have said the same thing.

Updated On: 10/30/04 at 03:00 PM

[lovettespies]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 3:03pm

He directs movies. People pay money and watch those movies. He wins awards. He does not control the state of our country. That is the job of the President.

[Broadway Matt]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 3:06pm

I think that's a testament to what a good documentary filmmaker he is, the fact that people can't tell the difference between his political sway and that of an actual politician.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 3:11pm

"I've not seen any of Moore's movies, so I can't comment."

Yet you comment all the time. There aren't very many creative types who don't like to get their name in the press. Moore is no different. But please don't suggest that Moore being "in all his glory" to be mentioned by Bin Laden is a statment that you are making free of the political implications? That he is a traitor of the variety they called Natalie Maines when half this country actually was saying she shouldn't have criticized the President since the nation was at war? And of course, she turned out to be right.

[lovettespies]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 3:14pm

There are a lot of political debates going on right now. Sigh, hopefully the country will be less polarized once kerry is elected.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 3:19pm

Well, unfortunately, if the Republicans can't manage to steal the election again (I believe Kerry will win free and clear if there aren't any more shenanigans, but heck, the powers behind Bush have demonstrated their venal capabilities again and again) they will start their attack dog act the day of his inaguration and probably begin impeachment proceedings the day after. They will, I guarantee this, forget how they demanded a lengthy honeymoon period for W, and the press just rolled over and gave it to him.

[Craig]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 3:28pm

I doubt Kerry's limo during the inauguration will be pelted with fruit though, Namo.

And I'd like to bring this point up - whether you are a fan of Michael Moore's or not, his conclusions in F911, etc - is irrelevant in my opinion. The important thing is not the ego or the conclusions, but the questions that are asked. Sometimes, it's the questions that are more important than the answers.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 3:32pm

But what can you do in a culture that suggests that people who question are "unpatriotic" or "traitors?" And why is it that the people who claim to love "freedom" and who keep saying that "freedom is on the march" are the first to call somebody who would ask the questions a traitor?

[Craig]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 3:40pm

Perhaps people prefer dictatorships?

All I know (good or bad) is that I had teachers growing up that told us to always question authority. Not in an anarchistic way, but to not just go with the status quo because it was popular or because everyone said it was the right thing to do.

Later, in college, a media professor forced people to look at the news (both print and on tv - the internet wasn't all that just yet) in terms of agendas and biases. Not in a paranoid way, but simply in terms if the way stories are presented, how they are spun, the order in which they appear on the program, etc.

Another wise professor of mine (Speech Communications) said "You can never not communicate"

We live in a very hypocritical world where the definition of freedom seems VERY open to interpretation, doesn't it? Usually the people shouting that people should be free to say what they want mean that people should be free to agree with what is being said. The rest should keep quiet.

All THAT being said, arguing for the sake of arguing - or rebelling for the sake of rebelling (or questioning JUST for the sake of questioning) seems futile. It reminds me of the kids in school that wanted to be so different from everyone else and be their own person, yet weren't.

Updated On: 10/30/04 at 03:40 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 3:58pm

"Usually the people shouting that people should be free to say what they want mean that people should be free to agree with what is being said. The rest should keep quiet."

Amen, brotherfriend.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 10/30/04 at 4:42pm

My first reaction to Osama's invocation of Bush blowing a spit bubble as he chewed up the words of MY PET GOAT was this: Now the Moore-as-Traitor case will be re-opened.

Namo has said it with passion and eloquence here, and it cannot be stated enough:

These keepers of the Democratic flame seem to think democracy is all about flag pins on lapels, weeping over "God Bless America" and hollow, meaningless sentiments in Support Our Troops bumper stickers. (What does "Support Our Troops" mean, anyway? As I drive around, and see how closely they are aligned with "W 04" stickers, I realize "support" most likely means "I Accept Without Questioning All of This Administration's Military Action and YOU DON'T!") Our Democracy, as invisioned by the men who created this country, was a life-embracing big tent, set up to encourage and honor the free exchange of thoughts and ideas, popular and unpopular, those of the majority and the minority. A Patriot was a man or woman with moral courage and convictions. Not an unquestioning, lazy lemming who'd follow anyone anywhere at anytime who promised to keep taxes low and the homeland "safe" without demanding a single sacrifice. When I look at the polls and wonder how 47% of the population can stand behind this man at this time, I must place it in the context of the dumbing down of America. Perhaps we got stuck with the President too much of this unthinking, shallow population deserves.

Updated On: 10/30/04 at 04:42 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 10/31/04 at 12:11am

Like I said before, if you haven't SEEN the film, you really should shut your gruel hole as your words have no powers here.