Papa John's Pizza Obamacare Hypocrisy- Page 8

[SNAFU]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 1:39pm

"I don't own a franchise but I play someone who does on BWW."

Posted: 11/12/12 at 1:40pm

I see you said Oregon above so I looked up the benefits. Two people living and eating together with combined income of $1000 a month would be eligible for $224 a month in food stamps. (I don't know how much your friend makes- I took the lowest low-ball estimate I could think of. If you know his circumstances, I can plug those in for you)

The individual limit is $162 a person in Oregon. The maximum benefit for a family of four is $518.

Updated On: 11/12/12 at 01:40 PM

Posted: 11/12/12 at 1:44pm

You should report your friend for fraud- or have you already done that?

So what do you think of a maximum of $162 per person as food assistance? That works out to $5.40 a day for food. It's a very interesting exercise to try and live on that budget to see what it's like.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 1:44pm

I love the "they are on food stamps and have a fancy phone" argument. Like all poor people are born poor or in need of assistance, or that any vestiges of their non-assisted lives just disappear the second they go on the dole. Maybe while we're paying for drug tests we could pay for uniforms for them too.

Updated On: 11/12/12 at 01:44 PM

Posted: 11/12/12 at 1:51pm

As I said before, I work at a non-profit. We DO see women coming in to use our food pantry that have a fancy phone. We even have a couple women who come in for help in a Mercedes. I'll explain how that happens.

As I said, a LOT of our women have been abandoned by the father of their children. If they were married, the probably had the best of everything- expensive phones, expensive cars, expensive clothes. He meets a new girl, takes off and cuts his old family off without a dime. You can't do ANYTHING in America without a phone- you can't apply for a job, you can't file for welfare, you can't check your bank balance- you NEED a phone. I talk to women all the time who have given up their electric and gas service to keep their phone on. And it probably IS a nice one- that's what she got when she was married. She's probably dropped the data plan but she HAS to keep that number active.

And that car? Same story. He bought it for her and stopped making payments. It'll get repossessed in about 4 months. But meanwhile, it's a car and she can go to job interviews and take her kids to school.

I don't mean to be smug but I am thinking I know a little more about poverty in America than Abby.

[AC126748]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 1:54pm

When I was in graduate school and making just over $1000 a month (and this only applied to the nine months a year that school was in session), and about 70% of that slightly-more-than-$1000 was going to my rent and utilities, and I didn't own a car because I couldn't afford to make car payments (and even if I could, I probably wouldn't have been able to pay for gas), and I was contractually not allowed to take another job outside of the university (and even if I was, where would I find the time, as a full time student who was also teaching two college-level courses?), and I literally was down to my last $10 every month and often skipped meals in the days leading up to being paid because I didn't want to overdraw my bank account, I received government assistance. Sometimes the only way I could eat was because of government aid such as food stamps. All of this while holding an A.B. from an Ivy League university and earning my graduate degrees from very prestigious universities. My perspective on issues of government assistance are connected to my own experiences.

Now, as someone who is fairly affluent, I say that I would rather support five people who are cheating and gaming the system than see one family go hungry in the name of "fiscal responsibility." And I like to think anyone who had been in my situation would feel the same way.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 1:55pm

It's ridiculous for anyone to say that someone who owns 5 or 6 franchises has to get a second job. I worked for a restaurant corporation for 10 years and I helped develop their franchise program. Pizza has one of the highest mark-up rates in retail. The profits made from chain pizza are ridiculous.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 2:00pm

So you didn't go into further inquiries about why he was on food stamps? Why was he so cavalier about it? And since you are in Criminal Justice, why aren't you reporting him for fraud? And since food stamps are distributed by states, did he receive these same food stamps in California? If it was that cut and dry why would you just use this as a nice anecdotal story? Why didn't you at least inform Human Services. I'm sure they'd be relieved of having one less case.

Everybody pays a tax in some form. Gas tax, sales tax, payroll tax, it doesn't always come straight from income. You look foolish to say there is nobody that pays taxes. You could say because of Baby Boomers being at retirement age that there needs to be a modern vision of social security that might include raising who has to chip into social security or even raise the age of who can receive SS benefits. That is actually a legitimate discussion.

That China line on debt is so old that the China's hold over the debt has dropped to the point its supposed svengali hand might no longer be the top holder of US debt. Japan, Brazil, Taiwan, Switzerland, Russia, Belgium and the UK also hold US debt. It adds to over $5 trillion of those countries together. The deficit still managed in a major financial crisis to dip at the rate of Bush. Our rate of debt as GDP is still lower than our Western allies.

[AbbyNormal13]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 2:26pm

I hope you realize there is more than one way of getting food stamps. At least here there is. There's the oregon trail card, WIC, which is for single moms, and countless others, as well as food banks. They're not solely living on $162 per person. I volunteer at a food bank on a regular basis and so many of them have nicer cars than anyone in my family drives. You can't tell me every single one of them is because their husbands left them the car? No, whole families come in with their nice expensive cars, including the father. So sure, that happens occasionally, but it's not in every single case.

And excuse some of my typos, I'm posting some of these from my phone and it pastes things that I don't notice.

[AC126748]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 2:33pm

I volunteer at a food bank on a regular basis and so many of them have nicer cars than anyone in my family drives. You can't tell me every single one of them is because their husbands left them the car? No, whole families come in with their nice expensive cars, including the father. So sure, that happens occasionally, but it's not in every single case.

My friend purchased a Mercedes S Class when he was making $350,000 a year. Bought it outright. He is currently unemployed and living on unemployment benefits and some savings. He still has the car, because he owns it. Read Phyllis's post. It holds some points of wisdom you still haven't grasped.

Posted: 11/12/12 at 2:40pm

The Oregon Trail card is what Oregon calls the SNAP card. SNAP stands for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, formerly known as the Food Stamp Program. In Illinois we call it a LINK Card but it is all the same. That IS your "food Stamp" benefit. WIC is a federal program for pregnant or breastfeeding mothers and babies. It allows those "at risk" women & babies to get a small allotment of milk, cheese and other "staple" foods. The monthly packages for WIC are about a $25 value and are ONLY for Pregnant or breastfeeding moms and small children.

So what are the other programs in Oregon?

Posted: 11/12/12 at 2:44pm

That would bring the total for a Mom and child (if the child is under 5 and eligible for WIC) up to $249 a month. That works out to $8.30 a day for mom and baby.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 2:45pm

I know a girl who tried to pay for her cocktails with food stamps.

And then she died.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 3:09pm

I knew a girl who knew that girl. She died, too. So did my friend who knew her.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 3:32pm

Between hob knobbing with the owners of franchises, working in a food pantry, taking the inventories of people in line in front of you at the supermarket, how do you find the time to post here child?

Updated On: 11/12/12 at 03:32 PM

Posted: 11/12/12 at 3:35pm

I was kind of waiting for the "Countless other" ways these deadbeats get food before I posted again. Abby, you are (apparently) a young person- you probably don't remember the battles we fought when Ronald Reagan made a lot of accusations about the poor- some of them very similar to the things you are saying. For RR, it was about the "welfare queen"- a women in Chicago who drove to the welfare office to pick up her check in a brand new Cadillac. It kind of became a rallying cry- no more welfare queens! The problem with that story was it wasn't true. I don't know if someone told Reagan about her and he believed it or if he saw it in a movie (he had problems confusing memories with movies he saw or was in) or if his dementia had progressed to the point he just imagined the whole thing.

And your two friends who are getting $500 in food stamps because they just don't care to pay for the food they eat strikes me as the same kind of thing. You're so SURE this system is broken YOU HAVE to tell me about them. If you DO have friends who told you they are getting $500 in food stamps- call and report them. Really. I am not saying no one ever has pulled a scam like this but it's not legal and it should be stopped. But using those law-breakers to justify your rants against food stamps is like saying that Homeless shelters would close because the homeless can always rob a bank.

Meanwhile "welfare" and "food stamps."

Two thirds of people receiving government assistance are children.

The average length of time they receive benefits is two years.

And the total amount spent on these programs amount to just about ONE PERCENT of the federal budget.

So if we are going to discuss this issue (and by your failure to actually respond to me I fear we are not because I know WAY more about this than you and you can only argue your position if the person you are confronting doesn't know the facts) let's start with your issues about those realities and not "your friends" who might or might not be ripping off the system.

[AbbyNormal13]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 3:36pm

Here's a list of everything you can get for free in oregon, as well as most states.

http://www.benefits.gov/benefits/browse-by-state/state/OR

$162 is for food stamps alone, when you factor in everything else on that list, including TANF, which is cash assistance. you barely have to pay for anything. If you make $1500 a month, and have to pay very little if any for food/electricity/insurance, you have a lot left over to buy whatever you want, beer, cigarettes, etc. I'm not saying they're rolling in money, but I don't think many of the people need everything they're getting for free. And you realize it's not just healthy food you can buy with it, they are able to buy junk food, twinkies, frozen pizza's, soda. The idea that they're living off government cheese is total BS. Maybe it used to be true, but not anymore. You add in all the food banks around, you barely have to buy anything if you don't want to. I have no problem with people going on welfare temporarily to help build themselves back up and get a boost, but when you graduate high school, get knocked up, and live on welfare the rest of your life, that's when it bothers me. That's what so many girls I went to high school with did and it's ridiculous.

And I was reading up on WIC, and some people on WIC message boards are saying they're getting $60-70 a month with it, not $25.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 3:43pm

At the so many girls who got pregnant in Abby's high school to Abby's List of Undesirables that she obsesses over.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 3:54pm

I find it fascinating that Abby knows such a vast amount more about welfare recipients than ANYONE on this board, including those who work directly with them.

Posted: 11/12/12 at 3:54pm

Abby you DO understand that you can't get WIC say unless you have a qualifying child? You can't get unemployment unless you meet certain standards- and if you DO get unemployment that income needs to be included in any other applications? (In Illinois, max $330a week so if you are getting that you are getting too much to get much other assistance) And TANF is EXACTLY the program I deal with all the time in my line of work- it's for women with dependent children. Again- not open to your two friends, only for women with dependent children. It IS what we mean when we say "welfare." It is also not available to someone making $1500- a woman with a child in Illinois is eligible only if she has total monthly income of less than $840- and that includes ALL sources.

If you think it's such a great deal PLEASE go on it a month and try it.

Updated On: 11/12/12 at 03:54 PM

Posted: 11/12/12 at 4:07pm

Maybe I should explain- when a woman comes to my agency for help this is what we do- we look at every available program and try to get her help. And yes, there is rent assistance available (for some) and food stamps (for some) and because I live in a very wealthy county, sometimes even subsidized housing or a shelter she can go to.

But no one gets everything- and some get nothing. In your example, your $1500 would put all but a very large family beyond any of the help I know of in Illinois. And let's face it, $18000 a year is not a lot for a family to live on- especially not a family of 6 which is what we'd be talking about. I'm using the example of two people (a woman and a child) because you brought up your two friends who are living large on their ill-gotten $500 a month.

The clients we see here are usually broke- no job, no savings. And as I said it's almost always moms and kids. And there are a LOT of programs that can assist them- we here at the agency usually spend the first hour just getting their benefits lined up: WIC, SNAP, TANF, even utility payments if we can. And I've never seen a family leave with more than a potential $1000 a month. Usually it's a couple hundred bucks here and there and we load them up in our food pantry before they leave. In a REALLY good month we might even have a gas card to give her to help her get around to the various offices she's going to have to circuit through- but that's only if its a good month (BTW- November and December are the "GOOD MONTHS- people give us stuff like that around the holidays).

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 4:19pm

"I don't think many of the people need everything they're getting for free."

It's a bad idea to generalize based on hunches or what you think. You have no possible way of knowing what goes on in other people's lives, and these lines in the sand people like you always draw (beer and cigarettes one minute, "nice" cellphones the next) are just desparate grabs to control other people in a world that is chaotic and uncontrollable.

Barring your ability to handle that conecpt, why not think of a certain revered philosopher? You know the story about Jesus and the loaves and fishes? You notice Jesus didn't stockpile three times what he and the disciples needed and *then* start passing it around? Nor did he have any sort of purity test people needed to pass for him to think they "deserved" food. When people are hungry, you feed them.

"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in..."

In what ways are your posts not reflective of the Christian notions of taking care of the least of your brothers, Abby?

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 4:38pm

It's like watching the 2012 election all over again.

Anecdotal evidence that someone 'hears' about or just 'feels' in their 'gut', versus people who actually work with the cold facts of the subject.

And we all know how that turned out!

Posted: 11/12/12 at 4:50pm

I'd still like Abby to give some answers: Is 1% of the federal budget too much to spend on all this? Do you think there should be assistance for people in need? IF so, how much? And if you say no, what do you think will (should) happen to those people in need? I'd rather not play the "some people get THIS game" because it's just counter productive- If your friends are getting $500 in food stamps they should be stopped. Now lets' talk about the real women i see everyday who have hungry kids- what should happen to them?

[SNAFU]

Posted: 11/12/12 at 5:23pm

She's asking Mom and Dad.