SUPER Controversial Thread!!! (Not for the faint of heart)- Page 11

[mominator]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 4:40pm

robbie the even LARGER sin is I am not sorry for doing it! I had 3 wonderful children in less than 5 years. At that rate at this moment I would have 12 with another one on the way. I don't see the Catholic church stepping up to help my husband and I put them through college.

Posted: 9/28/04 at 4:43pm

mom - they'd be happy to help, but they're too busy counting all the loot back in Rome.

[robbiej]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 4:44pm

Wanna know something else interesting?

Apparently, going to a fertility clinic to test to see if your husband is sterile is also a sin. Why? Because one must mastubate into a cup in order to get the spem to test. So...a good Catholic couple who wish to raise good Catholic children but who might be having problems conceiving do not have the option of being tested and treated for infertility...unless they want to be sinners.

[feinstein9]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 4:52pm

DGrant- i'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with the Church. it saddens me deeply that they have abused you in this way. in my opinion, there is nothing worse a person (or organisation, as it is) can do than destory ones feelings of self-worth. i've struggled with this also, because i was told that my feelings were wrong. then i got sick of feeling bad about myself, and when i was about 12 or 13 i did some internet research to find out what the Bible *really* said, and it's made me more comfortable with myself. sometimes i'll hear billy graham speak or one of those a$$holes, and i start feeling bad again. then i go back on the internet, get my support, and remember that "if they said you could never never love yourself, it was a lie." please remember that man's interpretation of God/Jesus isn't the same as what they intended it to be. people have screwed it up like it's Enron or something. i'm not trying to convert you, i just want you to know that a) i'm sorry my church has hurt you and so many other people and b) the words that hurt you aren't from God. lotsa peace and love

Posted: 9/28/04 at 5:01pm

Feinstein - thank you very much for your kind words and thoughts. After many years of dealing with this issue, I can assure you I'm aware where the negativity comes from

I'm very happy that you have found something that gives you peace and fulfillment in your life - as I am for any that can say that about their religion. It's just not something that I can choose.

[~FloweryFriend~]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 6:41pm

1. Although I personally believe that much of the following website is b.s., some of you might find it interesting: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

2. I am Catholic. I am also related to an infertility specialist. Here's the way I look at it:
When Catholics discuss why suicide, homocide, and abortion are wrong, they use the point that "only God can create life, so only God should take it away". God creates all life, whether it starts in a test tube or not. If God didn't want life to be started that way, it wouldn't start that way. Therefore, God approves of infertility treatment.

3. The following was mentioned by ckeaton a few pages ago...
"I think that ~ff~ is fricking hot."
*Ahem* When did that become a topic of controversy?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 7:31pm

well, IIIIII know for a fact that ff is fricking hot!! So HA!

[ckeaton]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 8:56pm

It's controversial because I am not only married, but her board big brother. And totally in love. hehehe.

[NYBroadwayNY]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 9:40pm

To DGRANT:

Earlier in this very thread, you wrote:
"Priest - don't forget the title of the thread - this is where people can express bold statements without filtering."

And then I read the hissy fit you had about the issue of homosexuality and Christianity. OK, we get it that you disagree that homosexuality is a sin, but SHEEESH, isn't this thread about CONTROVERSY, where people can "express bold statements" without a war going on???

I think you were out of line for THIS THREAD. If that subject is too controversial for you, read another thread.

This is my controversial statement.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 9:43pm

If you can not take the heat, get out of the kitchen, baby. Debates gonna take place.

But, then again, I am biased--I was with DGrant all the way with those sentiments.

Updated On: 9/28/04 at 09:43 PM

[NYBroadwayNY]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 9:47pm

OH, I'm in the kitchen, baby. I'm thinking it was DGRANT that should find his way out, since he attacked.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 9:48pm

Honey, DGrant decorated that kitchen! The man stays!

[NYBroadwayNY]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 9:53pm

"DGrant decorated that kitchen!"

LOL! I would have to agree. BUT, I think that in a "controversial" thread, you should be able to give your statement without being cussed out for it.

OH... and .... where's all the "tolerance" now?!?
Practice what you preach. (pun intended)

[ckeaton]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 9:56pm

To some extent you understand the intent of the thread, NYBwayNY...

But this is a key issue (perhaps life defining) to many of our friends here, so a bit of extended controversy isn't a bad thing on this issue, eh?

[robbiej]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 9:57pm

Bold statements without filtering, sure.

But that doesn't preclude backing things up.

Where would the fun be in 'I think midgets should be rounded up and put on a deserted island' be if no one could respond?

[ckeaton]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 9:59pm

I think that 'Scrubs' is the best new show on TV in the last 10 years.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 9:59pm

The CONTROVERSY is that DGrant broke the rules!!!!! Right????

[NYBroadwayNY]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 10:00pm

NO, I love controversy. But I also love respect and I read this whole thread and everyone was really disagreeing at times, but no one made a personal attack until I read DGRANT's post. I just think that we can disagree and be controversial without disrespecting each other.

[robbiej]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 10:05pm

You have to admit, NY, that it's kinda hard when one person's 'controversial' beliefs (or their religion's beliefs) disrespect many members of our little community here.

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 10:08pm

Priest---Unless you are an expert on language and Biblical translation, I do not think you can blow off a verse because YOU think it was mistranslated. If it really was, how do you know the KJV wasn't the mistranslation? Newer versions may not be translated solely from a previous version.

Spider---Sin is NOT the creation of the devil. God created everything, including the devil and sin. Give God some credit--he has always been in control. That said, one of the hardest things for many to comprehend is why God would create sin, but that's another thread. I won't claim to know the answer to that, I'm not God. I live my life based on two things---the Bible, and faith. If I can't explain something (which is a whole lot!), I'm comforted in the fact that God has it taken care of---he knows what's up, and I don't have to worry about it. (unfortunately, it is hard for many people to live by faith like that.) I'm sorry if you feel I was twisting your words---I read what you said, and try to rebute accurately, but do NOT stereotype and accuse me of being "one of those Christians who pick and choose verses." And, I don't remember ever saying that I do not sin. In fact, I'm am insulted that you accuse me of such a thing (you sssooooo twisted MY words around). I have sinned so much in my life, that I'm amazed by the fact that God still allows me to speak his name. I consider myself SO FORTUNATE that Christ died for me and that God has granted mercy and grace upon me because of what His son did. I did not mean to make it sound EASY to change. I realize this more than you can understand. I also admitted that many cannot or will not change and that that is something they may have to live with forever. I know my views on this issue are not popular here (or many places, for that matter), and I hope I am not shunned for believing these things.

"And what is the Christian response to this awareness? Denial and persecution for that which doesn't fit it's narrow parameters of existence.

Those rules and parameters that you are holding so near and dear to your heart were fabricated by men at a time in history when physical domination was the paramount motivator. Everything that has been passed down to you as 'divine law' was designed by a group of men to better fascilitate their domination over other groups of men."

I'm sorry you feel that way. You seem to know as if you were there.

"But under NO CIRCUMSTANCES do I find it allowable and acceptable that you step outside your circle and interfer with the rest of us who are just living our lives."

When everyone in the world stops stepping ouside their circles, society will have reached a stand still. You go on and "just live your lives," and then die and what, that's it? Or do you believe in something else? That's fine. I will try to stay inside my circle for as long as I can....but I was not created for this world, I was created for the next. It's not stopping for me here.

I am not here to tell anyone that they are LESS of a human being for not being me. My downfalls and mistakes are as great as anyone elses. Just because I don't agree with a lifestyle, doesn't mean I think these people are lacking in character, heart, or virues. I disagree with SOME of their qualities, but I do not intend that as downgrading them as a human, anymore than someone disagreeing with me for being a Christian. Many of you obviously disagree with conservative Christian beliefs with phrases life "I hate it when Christians..." or others that show an obvious annoyance with Christians....but I do not think you are saying I am less of a person.

I don't remember who said it, but do you really think I can't be true friends with gay people if I feel this way? I have a friend who is into very mystical and 'witchcraft' associated religions. I certainly do not agree with his practices, but we still hang out and are friends. We know that we do not agree...but that doesn't mean I try to change him every chance I get. If the opportunity arrives, we converse, but I never fail in following my principles and being as blameless as possible so that if he ever does decide to look into my lifestyle, I can be there for him in encouragement and support. There is a limit as to how intamite our relationship can get, because he doesn't even believe in the things I live for. I can never support him in these views and beliefs, but that does NOT mean we can't be friends.

[NYBroadwayNY]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 10:08pm

What do you mean..."disrespect many members of our little community here..."

So, NO ONE can post something, even in A "controversial" thread if it's not agreed upon by the rest of the community?????

*goes to find dictionary to look up 'controversial'*

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 10:11pm

YAWN

[ckeaton]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 10:13pm

NYBNY, doll...
I understand where you're trying to come from... but don't ruin it for everyone else.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 10:15pm

I think that anti-gay people have no business being in or attending the theatre. Gays brought theatre into this world--and we can sure as hell take it out!

[NYBroadwayNY]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 10:16pm

How am I "ruining it" for anyone else?? By saying we should respect each other??