Serious Discussion-Stress and Psych Disorders- Page 10
Serious Discussion-Stress and Psych Disorders
#225re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:31pm
I tried to make them just that papa. What is a good serious discussion without a fight. 
Superman was created as an Anti-communist icon. I always found it a bit odd that the God like alien would be so invested in the American way. If that ship had landed in Germany would he have been a Nazi?
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#226re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:37pmactually, guin, when superman was created in 1938 the global scourge was fascism, not so much communism.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
StageWhore
Broadway Star Joined: 11/11/05
#227re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:38pm
And why would Americans put their hope in an alien anyway? He's not one of them.
But seriously, what superhero wasn't out to save America? That's just a manifestation of the authors scrambling to prove themselves loyal Americans. Otherwise, McCarthy might nail them.
"`I grow old... I grow old... I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.` What does that mean, Mr. Marlowe?"
"Not a bloody thing. It just sounds good."
He smiled. "That is from the `Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.` Here's another one. `In the room women come and go/Talking of Michael Angelo.' Does that suggest anything to you, sir?"
"Yeah -- it suggests to me that the guy didn't know very much about women."
"My sentiments exactly, sir. Nonetheless I admire T. S. Eliot very much."
"Did you say, 'nonetheless'?"
- The Long Goodbye by Raymond Chandler
#228re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:41pm
Communism had been the global scourge since 1917, every country was afraid it would overtake them. Most Americans did not see Fascism as a threat to "us" but Communism was around and had that capability to spread. While the global vileness of Fascism was indeed at its peak, the main concern of the "American Way" was Communism (up until we finally decided to enter the war, and we liked "Uncle Joe".)
Stage Whore- Batman was out for himself, he couldn't give a rat a*s about America. 
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
Updated On: 1/24/06 at 12:41 PM
#229re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:57pmmaybe not most americans, but two young jewish men not seeing hitler and fascism as a threat in '38? superman at his inception mimicked the politics of his creators and was a powerful champion for the waek, the underprivileged and the oppressed. in one early story superman destroyed an entire ghetto in order to force the city and corporate heads to build a fair, clean, crime-free community for poor residents. that's pretty far from anti-communist, in fact it leans towards it. granted towards the end of the war and from then on, he grew more conservative. although, there was the "superman vs. the kkk" during the radio series in the 40's which did serious damage to the klan using information from a reporter who'd goine undercover into the klan.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#230re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:00pm
In the early days there was certainly a liberal ethic to Superman, but he did move father and farther from it. By the late 50's and 60's he was certainly the prototype for American/Capitalist idealism.
I don't remeber the particular stories well, but I have read almost all of the pre-war Action Comics and I just remember Superman functioning as a pro-American, although with the championing of the weak you talk about.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#231re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:06pm
Great topic, gang! JUST fantastic.
Sorry it took so long to edit the title, I was actually working! go figure.
I love this idea, especially given my long, storied history with comics.
Captain America was also created directly as our "superhero" answer to World War II. The Red Skull, his nemesis, was a Nazi, after all.
Also, The X-Men were originally created, in most ways, as a way to shed light on the topic of racism and prejudice: a group of people unlike "regular" folk, shunned from society and actually feared.
#232re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:17pmlast time i rented the casablanca dvd it included a cartoon short that was a parody of to have and have not called bacall to armswhich was wildly racist. it was interesting to see what was acceptable as recently as the late 40's.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#233re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:19pm
Well, you can see some amazingly racist things even in the cartoons they still air from the WB and...oh, crap, the ones who did Popeye.
#234re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:23pmi think a lot of times stuff like that slips through because people have forgotten just how offensive some of those portrayals can be to a modern audience. i wonder how much review of content is done when a network acquires the broadcast rights for cartoons? especially older ones.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
kissmycookie
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/21/04
#235re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:25pmBut many political cartoons in the papers particularly in the newspapers of the late 1800's and the early 1900's were full of invective racist cartoons to rile the readers up. On the East Coast, there were anti-Irish cartoons. On the West Coast, there were anti-Chinese cartoons. The Hearst publications come to mind. And also where the term "yellow journalism" comes into usage.
#236re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:25pm
The racism from some 40's cartoons (not to mention the earlier ones) is really astonishing. I remember a really racist "Woody Woodpecker" that I only saw once when I was really little, but it freaked me out.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#237re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:28pmyou're right cookie. i always laugh when someone on the right or the left talks about a particular cartoon (and they do) and bemoans the loss of civility in the modern world. the cartoons of yesteryear make the most controversial of today's editorial cartoons seem like bubbles and rainbows by comparison.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#238re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:37pm
The big thing about political cartoons is that it seems sometimes the worst stereotypes come from artists who had been advocating equality.
When the Civil War ended Thomas Nast had many cartoons extoling the virtue of the "black american" but by the 1870's he was drawing virilently racist cartoons to decry the blacks in the legislature.
There were never such things as civil elections or politics. It is odd to me that somehow people wish for the olden days when we "all got along" even when only white landowning men could vote they were killing each other in the streets over the elections.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#239re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:43pmi didn't know that anyone was seriously advocating a return that far back in time, guin.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#240re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:44pm
I don't know, have you asked Roxy?
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#241re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 2:52pm
now now, let's keep it positive.
could bugs bunny, a character prone to drag and kissing men, women and animals, achieve in today's world the kind of status he achieved in his own time?
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#242re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 3:03pm
Of course not! Our sensibitilies were something to be created like that today would be offended...looking back, you can view it with a sort of period innocence.
But he was definitely born out of that classic vaudeville comedian, playing all those various roles. Aren't there many moments in Bob Hope films of the "guy in a dress" playing a trick?
#243re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/24/06 at 3:12pmsure there are plenty of eamples from films of the period with men in drag that had no sexual connotation, or very little, to them. i've often wondered if some of smigel's cartoons could exist on their own outside the tv funhouse. a weekly version of the amiguously gay duo for example.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#244re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/25/06 at 8:52am
Gah. I'm really sorry I was so ill yesterday, this was an interesting topic to discuss, especially since I've not thought about the political intent of cartoons not necessarily out to have a political stance as their primary purpose.
So, what's up for discussion today?
NYadgal
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/18/04
#245re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/25/06 at 8:53am
Any suggestions for a topic today?
Yesterday some of the folks on the Adult smoking thread were talking about the loss of landmarks and the lack of preservation of historic buildings, areas and businesses. Anyone interested in discussing that today?
Other suggestions?
"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."
DG
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/2/05
#246re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/25/06 at 8:54amI really like the 'preservation' topic.
iflitifloat
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/10/03
#248re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/25/06 at 9:04am
Works for me...a issue painfully driven home by the closing of Barrymore's. Last night, our waiter told us that the landlord had raised the rent so high that it made it impossible for them to stay open. This guy had been working there for 15 years. For as long as I've been going there, the staff has felt so invested and consistent. Just one more constant in life falling by the wayside.
Sueleen Gay: "Here you go, Bitch, now go make some fukcing lemonade." 10/28/10
DG
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/2/05
#249re: the serious discussion thread
Posted: 1/25/06 at 9:09am
"Just one more constant in life falling by the wayside."
Although I have a tendency to gravitate toward the "Please Preserve" mentality, this statement leads me to a different viewpoint (if only for the sake of discussion.)
Life isn't a constant, so holding onto something just for the sake of holding on isn't necessarily always the correct perspective. If the life of the area has changed into something that makes a different reality make more sense, then I say tear it down and move on.
At least in a discussion
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