Serious Discussion-Stress and Psych Disorders- Page 9

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 1/23/06 at 8:33pm

Wow. That gave me chills.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/23/06 at 8:38pm

My goodness! How beautiful, Mistress.
Thank you for sharing.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 1/23/06 at 8:41pm

If we could all have such a moment of clarity...

Thanks to everyone for sharing your stories. This was an interesting, informative, emotional and thought-provoking discussion today.

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 1/23/06 at 8:44pm

You know, I've realized that some of us (basically me) kind of threadjacked the topic pretty early on today.

Termination of treatment is at a very different spot than assisted suicide on the continuum, and while I'm supportive of assisted suicide, I still am grappling with where the parameters should be.

It's similar to my feelings about abortion. I am avidly pro-choice, but my commitment starts to waiver in the case of late term abortions. I support them when the mother's life is in danger, and in a situation where a devestating fetal abnormality is determined late in the pregnancy, but I have a hard time embracing late term abortions for no other reason than delayed decision making.

OK...does that make me sound conflicted enough for one day?

[NYadgal]

Posted: 1/23/06 at 8:51pm

It makes you sound like you give matters of significance the important thought which they deserve.

None of these issues are easy, and I don't see them in black and white, either. Especially when there are personal connections to issues, and they are not being discussed with pure objectivity.

Updated On: 1/23/06 at 08:51 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 1/23/06 at 8:53pm

Mistress, I had a somewhat different story, with a very similar ending. My father had seizure a about a year and a half ago, where he passed out, and hit his head - he was far sicker than any of us realized (he was only sixty eight) and the blood thinners he was only only made matters worse.

I had all of the documentation in order, including a Durable Power of Attorney for Healthcare, and an Advanced Directive.

My father did not want to be kept alive by artificial means, as had happened to my grandmother and great aunt. While he was still conscious, he awoke hooked up to a myriad of machines giving me "what the f$ck is going on here, you know I don't want this" look and tried to pull everything out. I explained to him that they thought that they could make him better, and that was the only reason he was hooked up to the machines, and to squeeze my hand if he understood. Thankfully, he did.

Unfortunately, he was too weak, and soon it progressed to pnemonia - and then soon, his heart, which was already weak, could not take the extra burden. By this time, the entire family, our Rabbi who was out of town and was very close to my father, and many of his friends had been able to visit him and show their love. Most important was his ability to visit with our Rabbi, who loved my father like a brother, and my father loved him in the same way.

We told the hospital not to make an extraordinary efforts to prolong his life, but to keep him comfortable. We were called at 4:30 in the morning by the hospital - where my mother, my two sisters, and both of my brothers-law sat as a family as said goodbye to him six days after he had the seizure. We all got to kiss him goodbye and have a private moment with him.

I feel we were blessed in so many ways - mostly in that we got to say goodbye as family. I feel that I was blessed in that he understood that I would never let him linger like that unless there was a realistic hope of him getting better. I do not know if I could have lived with myself if my last memory would have been him thinking I had somehow betrayed his wishes.

Updated On: 1/23/06 at 08:53 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/23/06 at 10:18pm

Thank you, Costume Mistress and ywiw. I hope you both know in your hearts, as I know I do and iflit does, that you did the right thing.

Iflit, I don't think you really threadjacked at all. My point earlier was that those of us involved with termination-of-treatment decisions, whether we make them for someone or support someone's instructions, are often tarred and feathered as if we ourselves are pulling plugs and disconnecting tubes. The words themselves connote only negatives: very few of us, if any, would "assist" a "suicide." It's rarely about that.

The issues are deep and complex, worthy of a discussion like this, in which these huge, unwanted, awesome experiences are shared, without judgment.

A very wise man told me when I was beginning to deal with these decisions, that I was becoming a member of a club that none of us ever want to join but all of us have to become part of someday.


Thank you, DG, for suggesting the topic, and thank you, bway, for facilitating it.

Updated On: 1/23/06 at 10:18 PM

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 11:27am

Another thought provoking series of discussions.

As it is another day, do we have a new topic yet?

[CostumeMistress]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 11:39am

A few suggestions:

Obesiety - is it really an epidemic? Whose fault is it? Those who are overweight? The fast-food industry? Should the government really regulate what goes into school vending machines? And does anyone ever cook any more? (Okay, that last one is just one that I wonder.)

For families whose religious beliefs state that health care is not allowed, when should the government intervene? Or should we just say, "freedom of religion, freedom of choice," while a religious family refuses a blood transfusion that would save their child's life?

"Young people just don't vote." I'm so sick of hearing this, especially when people act like this is a new thing. I voted. But why didn't my peers, in your opinion? What can be "done," if anything, about low voter turnout?

What's the most meaningful thing someone's ever said to you? What's the most meaningful advice you've ever given? What is the most difficult piece of advice you've ever given? What is one time you wish you would have intervened in a situation and later regretted not giving your input?

If given the title... oh, wait, that was a throwback from my pageant days.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 11:41am

Good suggestions! Any of those should make for a fun discussion of the day.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 11:42am

No offense, but I hope it's something light.
Although, in light of my SECOND throat infection in a month, I'm inclined to start discussing the sorry state of health care in this country.
But perhaps we can just talk about Saturday morning cartoons instead.

[CostumeMistress]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 11:46am

Since *you* started this, it's *your* call.

BTW, this is my new favorite thread. I love it! I hope this continues to become a board tradition, and continues to be a place to discuss things with insight, maturity and a lack of snarkiness.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 11:46am

how about warner brothres cartoons throughout the years? from bugs and daffy and the gang through to the animaniacs.

[CostumeMistress]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 11:50am

Or just the evolution of cartoons in general, all the way from the early Disney films to the Adult Swim features of today.

[singingwendy]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 11:51am

I was never big on Bugs and Daffy...although my brother was a serious Woody Woodpecker fanatic. And I never really "got" Roadrunner.


I preferred cartoons with people in them....The Flintstones, The Jetsons, Scooby Doo.

Of course, I'm sure some psychologist could have a field day with that...LOL

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 11:56am

*tries to think of something light for the serious discussion thread*

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 11:59am

how about, cartoons as social commentary through the years from the jingoistic portrayals of axis powers in the 40's to smigel's tv funhouse and the ex-presidents of the united states of america.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:05pm

Elmer Fudd was a commie.

[StageWhore]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:06pm

I personally love the way political cartoons are used. They help portray the author's point, and yet they interest even the laziest of readers. I mean, to be honest, how many young people will honestly sit down and read the entire NY Times? (or Washington Post, or TIME, or what have you) Truly, not too many of my fellow college students are willing to put in the time and effort.
However, the use of cartoons does give the author a false sense of anonymity. They can simply say, "Oh, it's just a joke. Why can't you take it in the way it was intended?" and never really be held accountable for what they say.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:13pm

well, duh, somms.

i dunno, stage, i think that political cartoons per se are pretty clear with their statements and they don't really try to hide any biases, i mean look at some of ted rall's stuff or on the other side the stuff at cox & forkum. it's pretty clear which side of the fence those folks are on and i think the even though some of the editorial cartoons are like late night talk show hosts, equal opportunity abusers of politicians, that like everywhere else in the country that the line between right and left has become more clearly defined in recent years in the realm of political cartoons.

what i was more interested in was mainstream animated cartoons and how they have been used through the years to portray various socio-political positions.

[StageWhore]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:21pm

Well, of course their position is clear. But my point was that they can say they made it just to entertain if they're put under fire for it.
And as for mainstream animated cartoons, I find it interesting how they reflect the times even without trying to do so. For example, the cartoon Doug was launched at the tail end of the "fair racial representation on tv" uproar. Consequently, all the characters were different colors to show how diverse races can live in peace. The same thing goes for "Arthur." All the animals were different, yet they were all friends (even though there was no inter-species parenting.)

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:21pm

Sometimes Political Cartoons have been subversive and it is that ability to hide and play off the notion that it is "only a cartoon" that is all that allowed the creator to continue to work.

Political cartoonists have long been at the forefront of social movements. Although there have often been a significant share of right wingers to trash and denounce any social change. The great effect is that it is popular art, and art that works on many different levels, at once touching, funny and angering.

The art of newspaper comics in general is a fascinating subject. From the Yellow Kid and Mutt and Jeff to the conservative nature
of Little Orphan Annie. Dick Tracy and Lil' Abner's casual social commentary. The elegant pathos of Peanuts. The political staging of Doonesbury. The philosophy of the Far Side and Calvin and Hobbes. So much to think about there.

Then there are the comic books, patriotic tripe like superman and Captain America, balanced by subversive vigilantees like Batman. The macarbe Tales from the Crypt. Modified to camp in an attempt to control the artistic expression then modified again to worthless visual drivel. But then the Graphic Novel arrises
Art Spiegelman's MAUS is quite simple a masterpiece of literature.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:25pm

superman's patriotic tripe? them's fightin' words, penguin.

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:28pm

So...is that the consensus for the day? Political cartoons? I could be happy with that. And obesity is also a great topic. How about that one tomorrow?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/24/06 at 12:30pm

who has the final say? bway?