Two other "Marni Nixon"s.

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/5/09 at 9:27am

I was watching Gigi on Blu-ray last night, and on the new documentary, they talked about Betty Wand dubbing Leslie Caron's singing voice. I thought her name sounded familiar, so looking Betty up on IMDb.com, I found that she also had dubbed Rita Moreno's singing voice on "A Boy Like That/I Have a Love" in the movie West Side Story. AND she dubbed the little boy singing "Dites-Moi" in South Pacific.

Which led me to Muriel Smith (the original Carmen Jones on Broadway), who dubbed Juanita Hall in South Pacific and Zsa-Zsa Gabor, singing the beautiful (and very popular hit) main theme in Moulin Rouge (1952).

Two very talented ladies who may not get the same level of recognition as Queen of the Movie Ghost Singers, Marni Nixon, but I still thought they deserved a round of applause for their terrific behind-the-scenes abilities.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/5/09 at 10:16am

Don't forget Anita Ellis, who was also Larry Kert's sister.

[PiraguaGuy2]

Posted: 4/5/09 at 10:21am

Stands up, applauds

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/5/09 at 11:02am

Here's Muriel singing for Zsa-Zsa in Moulin Rouge. It's such a gorgeous song. Zsa-Zsa performs it wonderfully here (and is delightful and charming in the film). She strikes these wonderful visual poses evoking the Jane Avrill sketches and posters by Toulouse-Lautrec.

But Muriel sings this beautifully. And she's in the movie herself as one of the main dancers, Aicha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLyKbOtASHA

I honestly have NO problem with dubbing, anymore than I have a problem with a stunt man doing a fall or jump for an actor. It's all part of the illusion. As long as it's done well. You have to convince me, that's all.
Muriel Smith photo

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/5/09 at 5:24pm

And here's Anita Ellis, singing while Rita Hayworth dances the iconic Jack Cole choreography to "Put the Blame on Mame" from Gilda:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVI0A4DTVgg

She also sang for Vera-Ellen in Three Little Words and The Belle of New York and for Jeanne Crain in Gentlemen Marry Brunettes.

Updated On: 4/5/09 at 05:24 PM

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 4/5/09 at 5:49pm

Did Betty Wand or Marni Nixon dub Rita Moreno in "America" as well? I thought there was a mixture of Moreno's vocals with someone else in that number, especially at the beginning (as she sings "Puerto Rico").
Thanks for all those wonderful links, Besty and PJ. Those voices!

[D2]

Posted: 4/5/09 at 10:59pm

Muriel Smith played Bloody Mary in the London production of SOUTH PACIFIC and can be seen in the archival film that R&H made for themselves. Occasionally clips surface on" that site," but are quickly taken down. I looked but couldn't find any. She's a fascinating Bloody Mary.

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 4/6/09 at 1:18pm

Ray,
I can answer your question because I have seen it on here MANY times :)

Rita Moreno sang "America" and the solo portion for Anita at the beginning of "Quintet". All the other parts for Anita in that song were dubbed by Marni Nixon. So essentially you have one woman singing for two character AT THE SAME TIME.

Also, in an interview with Rita Moreno she said that at the time of WSS, she would have been considered to be a coloratura. However, in the bonus features for WSS she said that she was dubbed because she couldn't hit the high notes in "A Boy Like That", specifically the 'Very Smart Maria, very Smart'. However, if she WAS a coloratura, I would think she would have been able to hit the notes EASILY. Maybe not belt them, but hit them.

Also, in ANOTHER interview, she said that she was upset with Betty Wand's rendition of "A Boy Like That" because she sounded like "a mexican" (those are Moreno's words, not mine).

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 4/6/09 at 1:36pm

Wow...Why did they dub Juanita Hall for SP? She had won a tony for the role and was a terrific and authentic singer! I dont go out of my way to watch the film, but am surprised I didnt notice the difference between the original cast recording and the soundtrack (which I dont own.)

It just seems odd, though I do love Smith's voice.

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 4/6/09 at 1:48pm

I can tell you that I got the OBC of "South Pacific" AFTER I had seen the movie (and recently too) and after listing to the OBC I thought that Juanita Hall sounded MUCH BETTER on the film/soundtrack...later I found out why.

She can sing pretty good, but her dubbed vocals were better. However, it doesn't matter too much. She got to BE IN THE FILM, and I think that she's lucky to have gotten that!

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 4/6/09 at 3:05pm

MTV, thanks so much for explaining that. I don't know why I thought that Rita was dubbed during the intro to "America," her voice sounds quite awesome while she sings "Pueeerto Rico."
Moreno has always criticized Betty Wand's rendition of "A Boy Like That" and she says she didn't think it worked on screen. I remember her saying something to the effect of "my acting (Face, gestures, etc) is saying one thing, the voice is saying another." If Moreno indeed made that comment, I don't think she meant it harshly. Anita's character is from Puerto Rico, and Moreno had a very specific accent in the film that differs from the accent that someone who comes from Mexico would have, so I imagine that's what she was referring to.
What a great thread. These are the threads that make me enjoy BWW

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/6/09 at 3:28pm

Rita Moreno can definitely sing, and she has a great voice! She's sung on variety specials, the Electric Company, etc. And she sings "America" in the movie WSS, and the beginning of the Quintet just as mentioned before.

Back in that "golden age," they used to care about getting the right voice quality for a specific song or character. Some ladies had gorgeous soprano voices, but if they were playing a role that called for something more smoldering and low, they would be dubbed by someone with the appropriate tone.

Today, they barely care if anyone can hold pitch. And if they can, they're called "good singers."

Of course most of the material being done in musicals today doesn't called for highly trained vocalists the way a Rodgers & Hammerstein ballad does, or something by Bernstein or Sondheim. The pop sounds today require little training at all. Belt loud and on key, riff a little ... and if you're a star, you're hired!

Also there is a huge stigma placed on dubbing in films now, which I think is completely ridiculous. This isn't the same as Milli Vanilli who were passing themselves off as singers in the music business. And it's not the same as paying to see a live concert of a singer and getting a playback track instead.

These are movies. Nothing is live. Nothing is real. It's all prerecorded, processed, rerecorded, retaken, and enhanced with both visual and audio effects.

So, why not dub? Just convince me that it's "really you" singing. If you do it badly, I'll complain, just like if a star jumps out a window in a movie and suddenly gains 20 pounds for the one shot, I'm gonna call "foul!" That's a bad stunt double.

But I agree with Stanley Donen, who disagreed with Jean Renior's comment: "Film is truth for 24 frames per second." Donen countered with, "Film is actually a lie for 24 frames per second."

Just don't get caught doing it.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 4/6/09 at 3:56pm

I assume you mean that she was the only original cast member to make it into the film, MTV. For that she was lucky, but remember that broadway stars were much bigger stars than they are now...she did have recognition and was age appropriate. Martin never could've pulled it off on film, imo. I regret that McCormick didnt reprise his role, even though I like Walston.

I must confess something terrible to this thread. I've always disliked Nixon's voice. I've always felt it was too thin for my taste.

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 4/6/09 at 4:28pm

I just meant that Hall was lucky that as a middle-aged black woman that she was lucky to have a substantial part in a film in the 1950's.
However, I guess that doesn't matter so much because it was her race that got her the part in the first place!

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 4/6/09 at 4:47pm

True...but that was after a huge success in the theater, and probably on every television in America. SP was the best selling album at the time, no?
It's not like there were alot of polynesian actresses who were better known.

Whatevs, I love her...always have...and fell in love with her on the cast album first. She's the best reason to watch the film, also.

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/6/09 at 9:11pm

Doodle---I don't think I would have liked Marni Nixon's voice on stage, back in her prime. I know what you mean about the thinness.

But legit theatre sopranos on the giant movie screen often come off shrill and overblown. Until Julie Andrews came along, no theatre sopranos had ever crossed over into film. And Julie was mic'd on stage in both My Fair Lady and Camelot.

The only other theatre soprano I can think of before that who became a movie star is Irene Dunne. And she made it big in non-musical roles.

The movie sopranos of the '30s and '40s were Jeanette MacDonald, Jane Powell, Kathryn Grayson, Deanna Durbin, etc. None of them were big stage stars. And when Kathryn Grayson later tried to make a legit operatic debut, it was an artistic disaster. She was booed off the stage.

Their voices were "smaller" and more palpable for movies. When you blew them up 60 feet high and filled the movie theatres with amplification, they were just right.

I think Marni fits this category perfectly. If you've ever seen My Fair Lady, WSS, or the King and I in a big movie theatre, you'll see just how well her voice works for the medium.

Unfortunately, it left star theatre sopranos like Isabel Bigley and Barbara Cook without film careers. Not even dubbing. And Patricia Morison and Marion Bell had minor film careers, but again, without singing a note.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 4/7/09 at 10:55am

Thanks, besty...I agree mostly, but of all the ladies mentioned, Marni is my least favorite, which is why I always wonder why they kept using her. Of her perfs. I've only seen WSS in a theater, BUT I definitely understand what you mean about stage voices versus voices in film.

I did see her in "Taking My Turn" and though charming, I hated her voice then as well.

Great info, all...thanks!

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 4/7/09 at 11:28am

That's funny because Nixon replaced Mary Beth Peil in the recent revival of NINE and yes, her voice was not really comparable to Peil's. Yet, I do love her voice performance in WEST SIDE STORY as Maria. I think it's beautifully sung.
Besty, maybe to play devil's advocate I'm not as fond of dubbing as you are. Simply because I think what a good actor, a good performer (versus a trained singer) can do with their voices can be really fascinating and I think it adds so much to their character and their performance as a whole. For example, while I don't necessarily agree with Rita Moreno that her performance of "A Boy Like That" doesn't work (I find it to be one of the highlights of the film), I do get what she is saying in that she was robbed of the opportunity of making that scene her own through her singing. This may be sacrilege but I'm not as concerned with someone hitting the right notes if in turn we get a beautifully-acted turn. I was one of the people who thought Helena Bonham Carter did a great job with SWEENEY TODD and her vocals went with her take on the character.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 4/7/09 at 12:25pm

Side note: I believe I recall Craig Zadan saying in Sondheim and Co. that in "America," Moreno's vocals were spliced with Marni Nixon's voice. Call me nuts, but the way Saul Bass ran the music dept. in the film, I wouldn't be that surprised if there was a lot MORE dubbing going on. I mean, do the math...

Natalie Wood: dubbed by Marni Nixon
Richard Beymer: dubbed by Jimmy Bryant
Russ Tamblyn: dubbed (in at least one number) by Tucker Smith
Rita Moreno: mostly dubbed by Betty Wand (and potentially Marni Nixon)

I mean, jeez.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 4/7/09 at 2:19pm

That would be Saul Chaplin. Bass did the credits on the film. Marni Nixon only sings for Moreno, during the latter part of The Quintet.

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/7/09 at 8:14pm

Ray---I agree with you that it is ideal if a performer can do his/her own singing. But most movie stars today (or back then) could not. And I mean movie stars, not just good actors. The ones that sell tickets and get the big salaries.

And movie stars usually get big roles in the big movies. So if we must have (say) Julia Roberts in a film version of Grey Gardens (ha!), I would rather have her dubbed than hear Julia try to sing "Another Winter In a Summer Town."

And the one thing that Marni Nixon has over many other singers, including the stage soprano stars is impeccable control. That's the other thing about a legit soprano singing on film. Aside from the fact that your voice can't be too big or shrill, you have to be able to control every note, sound, and syllable. Every bit of vibrato, and your pitch has to be flawless. Your voice is basically under a microscope, and all missteps, especially in the upper register, will be heard.

Marni could do that better than nearly anyone you can name. AND she could match the speaking voices of stars better than anyone you can name. Her performance as Maria is so different than her performances in The King and I or My Fair Lady. She truly changed her voice to match the actress. I may not think she has the best, richest, most dazzling soprano tone, but I think she was brilliant at what she did.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/7/09 at 10:37pm

This is what West Side Story would have been like WITHOUT Marni Nixon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V45BswY3IgI



This is what My Fair Lady would have been like WITHOUT Marni Nixon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q671QIDeH-U

I love me some Natalie Wood and I LOVE me some Audrey Hepburn, but Marni makes these musical movies magical.

Updated On: 4/7/09 at 10:37 PM

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 4/8/09 at 12:08am

And movie stars usually get big roles in the big movies. So if we must have (say) Julia Roberts in a film version of Grey Gardens (ha!), I would rather have her dubbed than hear Julia try to sing "Another Winter In a Summer Town."

Way to rebut my whole argument in a couple sentences, Besty :-P When you put it that way...

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/8/09 at 8:37pm

Well, I wasn't trying to "best you," no pun intended. :-P

[nygrl232]

Posted: 4/9/09 at 5:05am

[quote]Today, they barely care if anyone can hold pitch. And if they can, they're called "good singers." [/quote]

And if they're female, they're put into hooker outfits and branded. That's what happens when the establishment's run by business school grads instead of artists.