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Actor injured in Spiderman tonight

BroadwayGirl107 Profile Photo
BroadwayGirl107
#350Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/22/10 at 10:29pm

Oh, wow, I just caught up on much of this thread, and I'm just amazed by most of the comments.

I've gathered--since talk of Spiderman began--that there is a general resistance on this board to risk in any sense of the word. From the fact that Spiderman as musical is a risky concept, to the riskiness of putting $65 million behind ANY musical, to the very calculated risk of acrobatics and stunt work. It's all very silly to me. Risk is what makes art, what makes excitement in the theater--whether it's the risk of an actor baring his or her soul, or a stuntman performing a flying trick. Given that Spiderman's acrobatics seem to be akin to Cirque-type feats, the very nature of the beast is that with these stunts, there has to be an element of apparent danger. Yet, some people seem to be arguing that there are just too many stunts and that perhaps they should reformulate the show to remove what is the meat and potatoes of stunt work and acrobatics to BEGIN with. That, I believe, is ludicrous. As others have mentioned, from to Mary Poppins, to Glinda floating in her bubble in Wicked, to Elphaba defying gravity...flying is a risky stage trick that seems to have a huge payoff in terms of spectacle. Whether or not injuries have occurred in those other shows is almost irrelevant because a small mistake could cause serious injury in any one of those cases. (Or in less likely places i.e. Idina Menzel's dangerous plunge in the melting scene of Wicked)

Then there is the issue as to whether or not Taymor, the crew, the producers, etc are even taking safety into consideration. To me, the notion that they AREN'T taking safety into the utmost consideration is beyond ludicrous. Why wouldn't they? It is in the best interest of everyone's reputation and finances to make sure the calculated risks of the production are performed under the safest conditions possible. People seem to forget how financially and artistically crippling an incident like this is; so if you truly believe the only interest here is in money or ego, I think you perhaps need to put yourself in the shoes of these supposedly wicked, greedy, insensitive, egomaniacs and consider how proper safety might just be in their best interest. How much money are they losing shutting down today's performances? What kind of financial and creative hassle will it be to replace this actor?

Of course, in the chaos and excitement of putting up Broadway's most expensive venture in history, it's easy to see how pretty important steps can be missed. But it's far far easier to sit here in the comfort of our homes without risking any money or anything in the creative process and blame and shame the people involved in this undertaking for their lack of care. It's hideously easy, when injuries have ALREADY occurred, to talk about "Oh that stunt is too dangerous!" It's hideously easy, when you're watching from the outside, to point out how wrong the people who are not sitting on their asses at the computer are. It's far too easy, when you have no idea how much work and care something of this scale takes, to say we would have done all this SO MUCH BETTER than the people who actually have the credentials to do it.

Obviously, I am not saying that mistakes--big mistakes--were not made here, and I'm not exactly granting a pardon to Taymor and the gang here. But some need to get a grip and realize that nobody did this on purpose, nobody wanted it to happen.


Lastly, I think the more bad that happens with this show and the more people who HATE it talk about it, the more they are feeding the beast. This is all publicity, and this all makes people--for better or for worse--intrigued and interested in the show. I really believe the show will not only make it to opening, but recoup...however long it takes them to get there.
Updated On: 12/22/10 at 10:29 PM

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HeyMrMusic
#351Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/22/10 at 11:28pm

Hear, hear, BroadwayGirl!

SeanMartin Profile Photo
SeanMartin
#352Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/22/10 at 11:59pm

>> But some need to get a grip and realize that nobody did this on purpose, nobody wanted it to happen.

While I can agree with the rest of your post, this statement gave me a bit of pause. Of course no one wanted it to happen... but it did. Whether because of faulty planning or rushed judgment or any other plausible excuse one wants to use, the simple fact remains: it did. And I think it's pretty easy to assume it happened because, when you cut right to it, these guys are re-inventing the wheel.

Flying has been part of theatre since PETER PAN (well, actually before, if you look at some of the early productions of RHINEGOLD, but anyway...). Cirque de Soleil does this stuff nightly in a dozen productions around the world, without a mishap. Foy has been engineering this stuff for decades. But somehow that wasnt either good enough or "right" enough for the *vision*. They tried to adapt over the same system used in rock concerts for the cameras that fly over the audience, and I would posit that, while it might have been a great idea, it was a terrible application.

Further, you cannot deny that nine years' development is a tad much for *any* show... especially when it comes down to mere weeks before the official opening, and you're still trying to figure out how to end the damn thing. That's just sloppy work, IMHO. It suggests the *spectacle* was ahead of everything else, including the story. And that's a screwed sense of priorities.

It's all well and good to say risk is a part of developing art, but I have issues with that philosophy when it's not your own money and you're not the one in the flying harness. If it all goes down in flames, Taymor can just walk away and go on to her next project. The kid who fell thirty feet probably cant say the same thing: tell him the "artistic risk" is worth it for the development of "art".


http://docandraider.com
Updated On: 12/23/10 at 11:59 PM

BroadwayGirl107 Profile Photo
BroadwayGirl107
#353Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 12:20am

Sean, the argument of artistic merit of the show itself is a little beside my point. I have not seen it yet, so I can't really speak on the show's pros and cons. Of course, one can gather from the budget and scope of the project that it's main focus and artistic merit is in visual spectacle more than anything else. Whether or not you or I believe that that is a positive or negative focus for a piece of musical theater is a whole 'nother discussion.

If it all goes down in flames, Taymor can just walk away and go on to her next project. The kid who fell thirty feet probably cant say the same thing: tell him the "artistic risk" is worth it for the development of "art".
This, again, is the nature of the beast. Taymor may walk away financially and physically unscathed, but if she can't make this work, it leaves a scar on her reputation as an artist, which is--in some ways--the most valuable thing for an artist in the public eye. Often you're only good as your last project, and if Taymor fails at this, she's got a LOT of work to do to have anyone entrust her with major financial and artistic risks in the near future. In other words, the funding of her work and her career is at risk as well.

As for those financing the show and Mr. Tierney...I can't imagine the risk for either was not calculated. The naysayers on this project have been vocal and proud from the start, so it shouldn't be any surprise to backers that this is an uphill battle. As far as Mr. Tierney goes, I'd say the risk in doing aerial work and stunts is pretty self-evident and was hopefully weighed accordingly prior to agreeing to the project, wouldn't you?
Updated On: 12/23/10 at 12:20 AM

HummingAlong
#354Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 12:32am

Well said.

I only feel bad for the actors if they are, as Alice Ripley's tweet suggested (before it was altered a bit), living somewhat of a nightmare in this production so far. One has to wonder if that tweet was informed by her presumably close relationship with Spidey's leading lady...

Best to them all. There's a beautiful story in there, it's just taking some time to really find it. They will...
Updated On: 12/23/10 at 12:32 AM

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Tag
#355Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 12:39am


Sh!t Happens Updated On: 12/23/10 at 12:39 AM

BroadwayGirl107 Profile Photo
BroadwayGirl107
#356Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 12:40am

That's what I'm wondering: how does the cast feel about this whole project? Have they already checked out because they feel like they're on the sinking Titanic? Honestly, I hope they're optimistic about it. If everyone involved in this show could collectively make it work, it will be one of the biggest triumphs from disaster to success I've ever witnessed. But if half the cast has already jumped ship emotionally, there's little hope...

SeanMartin Profile Photo
SeanMartin
#357Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 12:46am

>> As far as Mr. Tierney goes, I'd say the risk in doing aerial work and stunts is pretty self-evident and was hopefully weighed accordingly prior to agreeing to the project, wouldn't you?

Having not been involved in either the auditions or the rehearsals, I cant say how much they agreed to. They may have been told this was all just perfectly fine, no reason to worry, it's all perfectly safe. They may have been told "Hey, it's your neck".

But that doesnt matter, sorry. As noted, these guys got a scant few months training. Circus performers have years behind them before they hit the centre ring. Despite all its development time, this whole thing is starting to feel rushed into production (which, given that Marvel had given them a drop-dead deadline to open by a specific date before the rights were withdrawn, doesnt surprise me).

>> Taymor may walk away financially and physically unscathed, but if she can't make this work, it leaves a scar on her reputation as an artist, which is--in some ways--the most valuable thing for an artist in the public eye.

Forgive the pun, but Ms. Taymor will bounce back. Somehow she always does. After the PR debacle that was ACROSS THE UNIVERSE, with stories of her pitching hissy fits because her "artistic vision" had been "compromised", one would think she would never direct a film again -- only to have her turn around and give us TEMPEST... which, if the early reviews are any indication, is yet another WTF piece of cinematic masturbation. Nevertheless, she will survive quite handily, I'm sure.

My fear with this debacle, aside from the monumental comedy of errors that SPIDERMAN has become, is that investors will look at it and think the only thing worth investing in in the future will be remakes and revivals of "safe" stuff. That should probably worry us more than Ms. Taymor's commitment to "vision".


http://docandraider.com

Gensho Profile Photo
Gensho
#358Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 12:50am

Mary Martin was injured several times during Peter Pan. Once during rehearsals for the filming of the 1950's tv show when one of her riggers spaced out and Mary slammed into a wall cracking both of her elbows. She was also injured during an out of town tryout in SF.

Check out this article: http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010/12/22/beyond-spider-man-ten-onstage-mishaps/#

HummingAlong
#359Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 12:52am

With what I'm sure must be a frustrating and exhausting rehearsal process, I hope they are finding ways to keep themselves happy and healthy. The cast seems like they'd get on well, so hopefully they're helping one another stay positive and energized. I hope Julie's treating them to spa packages and fancy meals. Actor injured in Spiderman tonight

Sending them good vibes...

grandpianoalex
#360Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 1:53am

Not sure if someone has posted this yet, but it is the most i've laughed EVER in my life.
"Spider-man Show"

HeyMrMusic Profile Photo
HeyMrMusic
#361Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 2:36am

BroadwayGirl, I don't know how the cast feels recently, but I know that during the first week of previews, they were very excited about it. They believed the first preview went extremely well for them and that the stops that happened that night were things that had never happened before in rehearsals. I don't know what their feelings are like after this recent incident, but to me it always seemed like they were excited about the project. The media, no doubt, has affected their morale in one way or another. I too hope they remain in good spirits, and if some of them decide to walk away from it, those people need to do what they need to do. No Broadway preview period has been under this much pressure, stress, or garnered such negative attention.

I've always wanted Broadway to be in the public eye, being discussed on the news, having headlines in the papers. These are not the kind of news stories I would have imagined or wanted for the public to see.

HeyMrMusic Profile Photo
HeyMrMusic
#362Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 2:39am

I thought the funniest thing (only funny thing?) about that video was "A Little Night Music: Turn Off the Fun".

BrianS Profile Photo
BrianS
#363Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 3:16am

It's so weird to me that the people claiming that the risk in Spider-Man is at a normal level for a theatrical production by pointing out serious accidents in other shows. I feel like they miss the point completely.

Little Mermaid had a major accident after a full out of town run, 50 previews, and around 300 performances.

Wicked has had more than a handful of serious accidents, but out of how many performances and how many companies?

I've talked to people who were in Starlight. Yes to constant fear of broken legs and chipped teeth. No to fear of death.

So, Cathy Rigby got smashed and broken 3 times out of what I'm guessing is 92,000 performances by now. That's actually a pretty ok track record.

Spider-Man has had FOUR serious accidents since September rehearsals and less than 40 preview performances.

September - broken feet
October - broken wrists
November - concussion
December - broken ribs & god knows what else

How can anyone say this is in line with other shows?


If the audience could do better, they'd be up here on stage and I'd be out there watching them. - Ethel Merman

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joeyvalcort
#364Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 3:18am

Sean Martin wrote: Cirque de Soleil does this stuff nightly in a dozen productions around the world, without a mishap.

This seems like a pretty important rebuttal to BroadwayGirl's great post, and honestly when I read it, I thought that it couldn't be true. So I Googled "cirque du soleil" and injury and found... lots of news reports of injuries.

This performer fell 20 feet ("Like a rag doll, her shoulders then head and finally hips hit the stage.Stunned silence. She did not move."): http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/04/update_injured_cirque_du_solei.html


This performer fell off a trampoline during rehearsals ("Emergency-services workers say the man was unconscious when they arrived on the scene, and they rushed him to hospital."): http://www.conradaskland.com/blog/2009/10/cirque-du-soleil-performer-suffers-head-trauma-after-fall/

These two performers fell 15 to 35 feet in front of a live audience during Zumanity in Las Vegas ("Both hit the stage with a resounding thud and bounced several inches in the air, witnesses said"): http://www.lvrj.com/news/11339291.html

And that's just the first page...

Now, it can easily be argued that Cirque shows and Spiderman are apples and oranges, but to say one is injury-free and the other not is wrong.

BrianS Profile Photo
BrianS
#365Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 4:42am

But I don't think anyone is saying they are injury free. What they are saying is that there are much lower incidence rates and the performers are much better trained to the task. There are many cirque shows each with multiple productions sometimes. So the injuries you list, while awful, are spread among thousands of performances. Even if there were 50 serious injuries, it would still be a small percentage of the performances that experienced a problem.

With Spider-Man, this is 4 serious injuries in less than 100 rehearsals/performances.


If the audience could do better, they'd be up here on stage and I'd be out there watching them. - Ethel Merman

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Radioactiveduck
#366Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 5:01am

Question regarding the letter to Michael Cohl fomr the NY State Assemblyman Rory Lancman

At the end of the letter, he mentions either altering or removing a sequence called "The Net". What happens in that stunt sequence that warrants being called out specifically for removal from the show?

shob Profile Photo
shob
#367Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 5:34am

I am a major optimistic. It's gross. But I sincerely can't wait until Taymor really fixes this show-book, staging (i.e. finish blocking the finale), re-work some stunts, etc. I can't wait until Bono and The Edge finish the job of "composer/lyricist" and re-think a majority of the score. I am eagerly waiting for the day where someone posts on the Spider-Man 'Preview Thread' that positive changes are being made to the show "but it's still not 'amazing'". I support Tierney fully and wish him a very well healing 'period'. Finally, I am very much looking forward to the opening night and the Broadway.com/BroadwayWorld red carpet videos that follow; the cast is glowing with excitement and pride. I could care less what the critics post on that night, but the fact that they made "it" is what I want most.

To me, it's more about the cast at this point. I want them to hit their groove and, pardon the cheesiness, soar. Honestly, I am starting to assume that Taymor is probably being picky regarding what she doesn't want to omit. Perfecting your "vision" is great, but maybe some sort of compromise (with yourself) might help, yeah? I don't know...just my two cents. I want this show to do well even with all of the negative bumps; safely, I might add. Eh, I don't know... :/

Merry Christmas.

After Eight
#368Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 5:44am

To BroadwayGirl:


"Oh, wow, I just caught up on much of this thread, and I'm just amazed by most of the comments."


As I am by yours.



"I've gathered--since talk of Spiderman began--that there is a general resistance on this board to risk in any sense of the word."

No, not in "any sense of the word." To insufficient safeguards against risk, in every sense of the word.


"From the fact that Spiderman as musical is a risky concept, to the riskiness of putting $65 million behind ANY musical, to the very calculated risk of acrobatics and stunt work. It's all very silly to me."

As is your post to me.


"Risk is what makes art, what makes excitement in the theater--whether it's the risk of an actor baring his or her soul, or a stuntman performing a flying trick."

Is there the same type of risk involved in an author writing a masterpiece like "Death of a Salesman," or an actor appearing in it, as falling 20-30 feet into an open trap? Honestly, now.


"Given that Spiderman's acrobatics seem to be akin to Cirque-type feats, the very nature of the beast is that with these stunts, there has to be an element of apparent danger. Yet, some people seem to be arguing that there are just too many stunts and that perhaps they should reformulate the show to remove what is the meat and potatoes of stunt work and acrobatics to BEGIN with."


I think they feel that if the production cannot guarantee the safety of the performers due to the unusual number of stunts, and if a smaller number of stunts would be easier to handle, then yes, they need to be reduced, and I agree with that. At the first preview, the only truly dazzling stunt was the aerial fight scene. The others added absolutely nothing to make this show extraordinary. If they limited the stunts to that one alone, or have that and Spidey fly once or twice over the audience a la Peter Pan, and if the production could do its utmost to guarantee the safety of the performers doing them, then that would be more than sufficient. Because the book and score are very poor, and if those aren't fixed, then no amount of dazzling stunts-- and could they now put any more additional ones in?-- could help it.

"That, I believe, is ludicrous."

That's what I think your assumptions and contentions are.

"Then there is the issue as to whether or not Taymor, the crew, the producers, etc are even taking safety into consideration. To me, the notion that they AREN'T taking safety into the utmost consideration is beyond ludicrous."

Straw man. No one is saying they haven't taken safety into consideration. The concern is that they haven't taken SUFFICIENT measures and precautions to ensure safety. The proof is in the pudding- four actors injured in rehearsals/previews. NEW measures now being demanded by outside agencies and now being put in place. If these measures are necessary now, why weren't they necessary and put into place from the start? And I don't find such concern at all ludicrous.


"Why wouldn't they? It is in the best interest of everyone's reputation and finances to make sure the calculated risks of the production are performed under the safest conditions possible."


Yes, you're right. But they weren't, were they? That's why new measures have been imposed.


"People seem to forget how financially and artistically crippling an incident like this is; so if you truly believe the only interest here is in money or ego."

I don't believe anyone things that money or ego are their ONLY interest here. But they are certainly part of the equation, as in any commercial/artistic endeavour.

"I think you perhaps need to put yourself in the shoes of these supposedly wicked, greedy, insensitive, egomaniacs and consider how proper safety might just be in their best interest. How much money are they losing shutting down today's performances? What kind of financial and creative hassle will it be to replace this actor?"


Then they should have taken greater steps to ensure that something like this didn't happen.

"Of course, in the chaos and excitement of putting up Broadway's most expensive venture in history, it's easy to see how pretty important steps can be missed."

To me, it is not pretty easy to see how "pretty important" steps can be missed. On the contrary, it's very hard for me to see. If these steps are "pretty important," they shouldn't be missed.

"Obviously, I am not saying that mistakes--big mistakes--were not made here,"

Obviously? That's hardly been evident in your post to this point.


"But some need to get a grip and realize that nobody did this on purpose, nobody wanted it to happen."



I think you need to get a grip and realize that nobody is stupid enough to think or say said they did it on purpose and wanted it to happen. It's that many feel that not enough safeguards have been in place to prevent accidents like these.
And I don't find that sentiment in any way "ludicrous."





Updated On: 12/23/10 at 05:44 AM

dramamama611 Profile Photo
dramamama611
#369Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 6:16am

I think one of the most aggravating things about this production (personal injury aside) is that they are CHARGING an audience full price for an incomplete project. Not something that needs tweeks and fixes...but something that is awaiting staging, re-writing...oh, and a coherent Act II.


If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.

SeanMartin Profile Photo
SeanMartin
#370Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 7:16am

>> There are many cirque shows each with multiple productions sometimes. So the injuries you list, while awful, are spread among thousands of performances. Even if there were 50 serious injuries, it would still be a small percentage of the performances that experienced a problem.

Thank you. Exactly. If you ever want to see how the Cirque prepares its performers, there's an excellent documentary, FIRE WITHIN, that documents the creation of VAREKI, including a great deal of discussion on safety for the aerialists. Yes, accidents happen, but Cirque goes into it with sufficient experience to minimize them -- and clearly it's worked.


http://docandraider.com

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wonderwaiter
#371Actor injured in Spiderman tonight
Posted: 12/23/10 at 9:15am

Not sure about the veracity of this photo:

Actor injured in Spiderman tonight

But my favorite part about this article is the comment:

"I have never been to any sort of play but not sure how you could waste 65 million bucks on a pack of men with tight fitting pants ferrying around on their tippy toes (that is what someone told me who goes in these things)."


'Close It Before Someone Dies'


And no one grew into anything new, we just became the worst of what we were."


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