Amateur production of CABARET (Is this allowed?)- Page 2

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 3:27pm

"I had someone steal my riffs and use them in their production from a youtube video I had posted of my show. I got over it. Not saying it's the same level lol."

*facepalm*

To be honest, I find it in poor taste to copy another persons work. Plus, if I were any of those designers I'd be incredibly upset. I understand that it happens quite often, and that life's to short to worry about it, but I'd definitely feel outraged.

To think of how much work goes into creating a design, including concepts, renderings, draftings, models, construction, etc., and then for a group to copy the creations of others is not only inconsiderate, but despicable.

[bwayguy22089]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 3:44pm

You have never taken criminology have you lol?

Many things that are illegal are only illegal for financial reasons, not because they are detrimental or of bad taste. Many things that are illegal ARE detrimental too. This, to me, would be one of the issues that could be up in the air.

[beltingbaritone]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 4:02pm

I suppose I'll get angry about this when the people who own the design do.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 4:23pm

"I had someone steal my riffs"

You invented riffing?

Broadway stage designs are COPYRIGHTED material, which is why you are not allowed to take pictures of the set, even if no one is on them.

Same with the original costume designs, COPYRIGHTED.

That's why they have Unions that CAN sue if they wanted to. It’s the same thing with Direction and Choreography.

Unless you are SPECIFICALLY granted they rights to ‘re-create’ of the production (as is the case with Fiddler On The Roof, you HAVE to do the Jerome Robbins Choreography) then you are stealing.


Stealing is stealing.

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 4:26pm

Diva, there a few who do not seem to understand these facts. And I think it's quite shocking one doesn't find it of bad taste to steal someone else's designs, and get credit for it using their name. Updated On: 12/25/08 at 04:26 PM

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 4:28pm

It's the ones who piss and moan "Who's it hurting" that bothers me.


They probably steal downloaded music as well.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 4:40pm

Those of you standing on soapboxes better be careful not to fall off. It might hurt.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 4:54pm

Sometimes you have to get on a saop box because the crowd doesn't seem to want to listen to facts.


Snarky much?

[??]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 5:15pm

This is actually a really interesting discussion, and minus the self righteous preaching, I'm interested to learn the specifics.

Of course, copying a show EXACTLY is a sign of laziness, but I was unaware it was illegal. That being said, where does the line get drawn? For example, lets say I see a broadway show that has one little thing that I really like, be it an entrance, a prop, or something that is unique to that one production. If I really like it, use it, yet the rest of the show is my own work - does that count?

I'm not claiming I'm doing this ... I'm just interested.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 5:58pm

"self righteous preaching"

Wow. Since it isn't in MY best interest, why is it 'preaching'?

Don't shoot the messenger.


Ask your lawyer.

[wonkit]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 7:22pm

The producers whose money pays for an original production concept have all rights to that production concept. They are entitled to any licensing fees associated with performance of that production. Anyone who does not acknowledge that ownership right by signing a license agreement and paying for their use (and the fee is based upon size of theater, number of performances, admission charges, etc.) is stealing. An illegal act is not less illegal if "no one is hurt" or "no one makes money". And if producers do not sue when their ideas are used illegally, it is not a waiver of their rights to sue the next person who does so. High school productions may be setting a poor legal and ethical example by not understanding the rights of other creative people. And ignorance of the law is no defense -

[blaxx]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 7:38pm

High school productions may be setting a poor legal and ethical example by not understanding the rights of other creative people.

Excellent point - the students are affected , of course. They are given the reference that they are doing great by copying the show just as it was on Broadway. A lot of them feel proud that their show looks "as good" or similar to that staging, without knowing that it's not only not legal, but not really creatively rewarding to carbon copy a production. This could certainly affect them in their everyday lives when they are faced with coming up with creative decisions and developing ethics.

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 8:10pm

This wasn't a high school production in the video. They are a community theater that has been around for a while.

[blaxx]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 8:13pm

Still, the performers look very young, and this comes up with a lot of high schools breaking the law threads.

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 8:15pm

Yeah, the Emcee looks 12 years old.

[B3TA07]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 8:34pm

Cool out, he's just a twink.

And the abs are clearly painted.

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 8:38pm

Ok, maybe he's 17.

[binau]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 8:54pm

"Unless you are SPECIFICALLY granted they rights to ‘re-create’ of the production (as is the case with Fiddler On The Roof, you HAVE to do the Jerome Robbins Choreography) then you are stealing.


Stealing is stealing."

IMO copyright breach=/= stealing. I hate hearing this over and over again. Breach of copyright is a breach of copyright.

[??]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 9:37pm

I guess my question is where does the line get drawn. Let's say for example, and this is just an example and a POSSIBLE SPOILER -

let's say I'm doing a community theatre production of Grease and I really love the idea of having Teen Angel enter from a giant ice cream cone. So I do it, it looks great, and the rest of the show is my own.

But since the current Broadway productions uses that idea - does that eliminate anyone else from doing it? Same with say, the 4 door entrance or the car transformation?

Does this really ruin any ethical development of children?

P.S - I know Grease is not a popular show around here, but it's just an example.

[The Boy From Ohio]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 10:21pm

Has anyone seen the program/Playbill? Maybe they did give credit to the revival creative team.

[blaxx]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 10:25pm

Even if they mentioned it, they needed it to be licensed. You can't just thank them or give them credit.

[The Boy From Ohio]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 10:28pm

True... Thanks, I just stole your show. Not good.

Updated On: 12/25/08 at 10:28 PM

[wonkit]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 10:45pm

You may have the opinion that copyright breach is not equal to stealing, but unfortunately the law does not agree with you. The only difference is that stealing is criminal and the state prosecutes you for a fine or jail, and infringement is primarily civil, and the injured party sues you for damages. (There may be criminal penalties for continued willful breach of copyright, too, but I am not going to look that up on Christmas!)

[IAMmyownMUSICAL]

Posted: 12/25/08 at 11:51pm

well then how do you not argue the same for productions of BEAUTY AND THE BEAST? Where they use the same choreography, or at least elements of it. And the costumes are all replicas of Broadway? yet thousands of these productions are one everyday? Why aren't you complaining about shows.

Community theatre/ regional theatre always mostly replicates the original conception. Thats the point of theatre in that sense, to bring it to people who arent in new york. So i guess I just don't see the problem.

PS
I SAW THIS SHOW
it was at the la habra depot theatre

the choreography was listed as the original choreographer, recreated by TJ

[blaxx]

Posted: 12/26/08 at 12:43am

Thats the point of theatre in that sense, to bring it to people who arent in new york. So i guess I just don't see the problem.

That's scary, are people really this ignorant?