Arena Stage "Music Man"-set in the 1930's... — Page 5

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#101

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 8:41am

I think the setting vaguely in the 1930s is an interesting choice. It is not set in the depression, but rather a time in the past.

How exactly is setting something "vaguely in the 1930s" not in the Depression?

The Great Depression lasted for the entire 1930s here in America. From the time the stock market crashed in 1929 until we entered World War II.

The only people who don't seem to be bothered by the time shift either have no sense of history, no regard for it whatsoever, or they have overlooked and ignored the director's choice in order to find other aspects enjoyable. None of them have said this shift in time enhanced or improved the story in any way.

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

Updated On: 5/25/12 at 08:41 AM

#102

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 9:29am

Best12, you make an excellent point and that was the first thing I thought about when I woke up this morning. The 30s were in the middle of the depression. If money was so tight, people would have thought long and hard about the money they spent. Spending money on an instrument and band uniform would definitely be discretionary income. It would be interesting to know how well traveling salesmen did during that time.

Like I said, I thought the costumes were quite nice, but thinking about the time period change didn't work. It sounds like JVD attended the talkback after last night's performance (I did not) which possibly gave an explanation of setting the show in a different time period. It still doesn't take away from the parts of the show I enjoyed last night.

After seeing the show last night, it made me realize I don't remember much from the 2000 revival. To this day I have never seen the movie or television remake either. However, I really like the score from the show and would gladly return to this production just to hear Kate Baldwin sing.

Hey Dottie! Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany

Updated On: 5/25/12 at 09:29 AM

#103

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 9:33am

Not only that, Dottie, but Harold Hill is already a con man. Some find him hard to like anyway.

Add to it that he's swindling these Midwestern folks out of their hard-earned cash during the Great Depression when so many were out of work, standing on breadlines, and barely making ends meet is utterly deplorable.

I would definitely be rooting for the tar and feathers.

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

Updated On: 5/25/12 at 09:33 AM

#104

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 9:54am

Time period aside, that is some god-awful, mediocre choreography.

#105

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 10:00am

I should clear something up. We've been debating two things really ... whether or not any work should be shifted to a different setting in the general sense ... and whether or not this specific show, The Music Man, should be set in the 1930s.

Several of you have been advocating that "experimentation is a good thing!" My reaction wasn't to the general "cause," but to a specific experiment. I would have the same reaction if you smeared peanut butter on a lightbulb and tried to eat it. An ill-advised experiment, to be sure.

My earlier posts say I'm not against trying something different "in general," as long as there is thought behind it and it makes sense and/or brings a new perspective to the work. Admittedly, I don't usually like them, and I may be predisposed against them, but I'm not flatly opposed to them. My prejudice is based on history, which has shown me that most experiments of this nature are usually misguided if they're even guided at all.

And I'm not opposed to "fantasy" or fiction either. I write in that genre myself. But the best fantasies have some footing in reality. As soon as you establish a setting, you live by those rules, whatever they may be, whether they are in Middle Earth or the Middle West during the Great Depression.

The worst fantasies establish setting and character and then break their own rules or muddle them at will.

If this director had found a way to make The Music Man work by setting it in 1930s Iowa during the Great Depression that would be fine. I maintain it can't be done unless you rewrite the book and lyrics. As is, the words (book and lyrics), situations, and ideals would never fit into that era.

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

#106

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 10:56am

Ya know...I've been thinking about this all night. I mean...not losing sleep, but I've been wrestling with my thoughts to the point where I'm tempted to try to head down to DC to see this.

One reason is because just over a month ago, I saw the new production of Sweeney Todd in London, which moved the action to the late 20's/early 30's, ie. between the Wars. It is the single best version of the show I've come across. The re-setting allowed for both social commentary, as well as an intimacy between the characters. There's a sense a knowledge about the Depression years that has pervaded our culture, especially as we live through a time that's being called the Great Recession. Not a word of Sweeney was changed, even though, clearly, there were specifics to the story that didn't survive into the 30's. But something was definitely gained by the re-setting. At least for me.

I feel The Music Man could benefit from a similar exploration. First, unlike many here, I've always found a dark undercurrent running through the entire show. The character of Marian never reads as 'innocent' to me. In fact, I truly feel that she is Winthrop's mother. And no matter what, Hill's actions make him a Dick. But he's redeemed at the end, fully and completely. Not because he brought music to the town, since the Minuet in G is the equivalent of an American Idol Medley train wreck, but because he brings hope to the town. He brings pride in a people coming together to work on...something. What was once a town of disparate people with disparate, given to gossip and conjecture, becomes a town in which everyone is working together to create something more. I think a 30's setting could very much enhance that feeling by magnifying it due to the circumstances of the Depression.

Does this DC production work? Could what I describe above work? I don't know. But the more I think about it, the more I think there's value in the idea.

#107

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 11:09am

SonofRobbieJ, how nice it would be if you could come down to DC to see this. It would be interesting to get your take. I'm also curious as to what PalJoey and Best12Bars would think as I'm really enjoying this particular debate.

Hey Dottie! Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany

#108

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 11:11am

^ "The character of Marian never reads as 'innocent' to me. In fact, I truly feel that she is Winthrop's mother."

Getting off topic a bit, but that's a very interesting thought! The age difference between Marian and Winthrop has ALWAYS bothered me. Mrs. Paroo has ALWAYS felt more like his grandmother than mother.

I've never seen a production where the idea of Marian being Winthrop's mother has even been suggested, but it would certainly explain her reticence when it comes to men.

Food for thought!

#109

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 11:14am

Ha, lovesclassics I made that exact comment last night to a friend of mine during intermission! In the Broadway revival it was even more noticeable. My first question was, how old is Marian supposed to be? How old Mrs. Paroo?

Hey Dottie! Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany

#110

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 11:21am

Marian is 26...Which means Mrs. Paroo would be (to hazard a guess) anywhere between 40 and 50. Winthrop is 10.

There's also a line in which Marian refers to Winthrop's father as 'The boy's father.' No 'our father.' Add that to the fact that Hill (no dummy) clearly sees her as the sadder but wiser girl, I can't see the character of Marian as virginal and innocent.

I would imagine the resetting to actually aid in exploring that story line. One can imagine a girl in the 20's getting pregnant out of wedlock easier than in the Aughties. However, I don't really want to see it made explicit. I think just the clues left by Wilson and the ambiguity of such make it much more interesting.

Dottie, how long is it running? Perhaps I can hop down if it runs long enough!

#111

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 11:26am

It's scheduled to run through July 22nd, but sometimes productions are extended by a week or two depending on demand.

Hey Dottie! Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany

#112

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 11:26am

I like Robbie's darker scenario, but can it be done without rewriting the book? I don't think so. That's my problem with it, not adapting a completely new version of The Music Man ... but you would need to rewrite the story (dialogue and lyrics especially), otherwise how do you do more than just give the actors subtext that Marian is really Winthrop's mother, and that Old Miser Madison left the books to her because he fathered her child and wanted to provide for his "mistress" and bastard son after his death. It's a certainly viable scenario, and so is making Hill even more rotten than he already is by cheating starving farmers and small-town businessmen during the Great Depression. Very "Paper Moon." But other than furtive glances, which are usually there from the gossipy ladies anyway, you can't really "explore" your idea without new text. It's merely "actors prep" stuff and director's subtext. Great for conversation during rehearsals, but those kind of details wouldn't read from an audience.

Could you get permission to alter text? Why not? A brand new book and modified lyrics to The Music Man. "The Grapes of Marian!"

And I know MichaelBennett said that Ted Chapin protects the R&H library from such rewrites, yet he did allow a new book to be written for Flower Drum Song. So it can be done. I would think "artistic intention" and preserving the original author's vision would be the key to getting it approved.

But if a director just says "let's set it in the 1930s" without further physical steps taken as if audiences will just say "okay," I can only roll my eyes.

EDIT: By the way, it IS already implied that there was more to the relationship between Marian and Miser Madison. That's nothing new. It's in the story. And it's already the reason Hill sings "The Sadder But Wiser Girl."

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

Updated On: 5/25/12 at 11:26 AM

#113

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 11:46am

Is this the same theatre that staged 1776 set in 2005 to save on the costumes?

#114

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 11:52am

I definitely think it's possible for Marian to be Winthrop's mother, but if Mrs. Paroo had Marian at 19, she'd only be 35 when she had Winthrop. That's not exactly odd or unheard of.

When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain. -Kad

#115

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 12:00pm

I think the whole point is to set up suspicion. That's already in the play. It could be possible either way, and the age difference between Marion and Winthrop is 16 years.

This is why Hill sings the Sadder But Wiser Girl. He doesn't (necessarily) believe the rumors, but he uses them against her to prove his point that "you shouldn't believe everything you hear." It's how he wins her over, too.

In the end, the fact that she knows he's a con artist and still supports what he does for the community could easily be echoed in her own situation. She is "guilty" of her own suspected rumors, yet she has been a positive contributor to the town.

I think the story of The Music Man is fine as is. It's already very strong, and the backstory potential is already there. I'm also not one of those people who is "shocked" that the musical beat out West Side Story for the Tony. It was a damn tough year, but I see exactly why it won.

I do think that, like "Annie," we've seen way too many cartoon productions of Music Man ... and I loved Meredith Willson's instructions to directors on the first page of this thread. Amen, brother.

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

Updated On: 5/26/12 at 12:00 PM

#116

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 12:05pm

A story was also being told in the color palette of the costumes, which could have very easily been done with the costumes for the original period that the musical takes place.

Hey Dottie! Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany

#117

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 12:08pm

I'm glad you enjoyed the costumes. What you said brought to mind images of "Pleasantville" a bit. It's a nice creative idea.

I mentioned earlier in this thread (before you posted) that it would be an interesting idea to have the palette be sepia tone (like an old early 20th-century photograph) until the finale. Mine probably echoes more images of The Wizard of Oz than Pleasantville, which was a gradual reveal of color as opposed to a sudden switch.

Either way, I do like the idea of the costumes following the emotional arc of the story.

EDIT: I think another cool design idea would be to actually use old 1900s photos or Edison movies as projections for the set design. Mix that with sepia-tone costumes, and it could have a wonderful look.

"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."

blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22

Updated On: 5/25/12 at 12:08 PM

#118

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 12:19pm

Ooh, sorry, must of missed that one particular post B12B. Projections wouldn't work in this venue as it's done in the square (or would that be considered round even when it's not?!).

The costume palette in this case really worked and I noticed it as the story progressed. My reaction to it all was, "nice touch."

I'm also liking the possibility that Marian is in fact Winthrop's mother as opposed to sister.

Hey Dottie! Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany

Updated On: 5/25/12 at 12:19 PM

#119

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 12:19pm

I know that a "slow transition into color" has been employed many times but I always thing of the "Come On Everybody" number in "All Shook Up." The townspeople start off gray/sepia toned and as the song goes on slowly charters costumes change into almost technicolor brightness.

I too saw Sweeney Todd in London and loved the between the wars setting. Granted I have no idea of the accuracy of what Fleet Street was like then, if bird vendors roamed the streets, etc but those are almost minor details compared to the over all theme of the downtrodden, poor, and desperate mass happening during the time. In a weird way it strengthed Hal Prince's original metaphor of the show being about the Industrial Revolution. The strength of the piece, direction, and performances made the time change work beautifully. However, I wouldnt necessarily direct Sweeney in the swinging 60s.

#120

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 12:22pm

Well...I guess I would point to the Sweeney in London and note that they didn't change a word of text to change the setting and to explore some of the relationships in different ways.

I disagree that actor/director subtext work isn't seen on stage in any meaningful way. It's not an exercise in theatrical masturbation. It's essential to unearthing what's in the text. And, when done correctly, it can subtly add to a theatrical experience without beating the audience over the head.

#121

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 12:29pm

In this case SonofRobbieJ, the color or lack thereof of the costumes wasn't carried over to the mood of the characters (or at least in my opinion). Now that would have been an option.

Hey Dottie! Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany

#122

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 12:37pm

I just noticed it's through July! I may indeed need to come on down and see this show!

#123

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 12:58pm

"The whole point of MUSIC MAN is that it's a valentine to 1912-era America! Call me a purist, but this is a stupid idea."

I am not sure where you have derived what the "whole point" is, although you are somewhat quoting the preface by Meredith Willson. And I assume "this is a stupid idea" is a. your opinion and b. based on the probability that you haven't seen the show yet.

As for the "vaguely 1930s" it was explained that this production, directed by Molly Smith (not Mollie Smith), is not about the Depression. It is about a town bereft of art whose inhabitants' lives are changed by rediscovering it. To dwell in the historic accuracy is similar to the Iowans dwelling only in the facts and forgetting the rainbow of depth that is reflected in art. Perhaps, PalJoey et al, we could all benefit from the example of looking at something familiar from a different angle.

#124

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 1:35pm

Perhaps, PalJoey et al, we could all benefit from the example of looking at something familiar from a different angle.

I can't speak for Et or Al, but PalJoey has probably looked at more familiar things from different angles in his long lifetime than you've looked at any things from any angles.

And as for the road trip, if Robbie goes, I go.

#125

Arena Stage

Posted: 5/25/12 at 1:39pm

Oh God. We don't have to share a room, do we? I can't imagine the toiletries.

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