'Big' Celebs on B-way- Page 2

[LM]

Posted: 12/20/03 at 12:49pm

I can think of just a couple of "BIG STARS", who have appeared on B'Way, recently. Paul Newman was in "Our Town", last year, and Michael Crawford was in "Dance of the Vampires". Now these stars are quite different "BIG STARS". Newman has been a movie icon, for as long as I an remember. I saw his performance of this role, on PBS, and liked it very much. Michael Crawford, on the other hand, is a "BIG STAR", in terms of the theater. I saw him In "Dance of the Vampires", and liked it very much, as well. Crawford, however, received a severe bashing from the critics, (did they actually SEE this show?, and very little support (advertising) from the production team. Why would he even WANT to come back?
I guess the thing is, there are very few "BIG STARS" around, any more, by MY definition of a "BIG STAR". I've seen a lot of shows, and some of the best performances were given by actors, whose names are not familiar. Mandy Gonzalez is WONDERFUL in "AIDA". Has anybody seen Max von Essen? You'll know both of these names, soon.
Oh, ramble, ramble! I guess my point is, a big name MAY bring'em in, but talent is what brings'em back!

[Al Dente]

Posted: 12/20/03 at 1:03pm

Well, in a world where the COVER of this weeks USWEEKLY is POLLUTED by the likes of the Bachelor/ette, the concept of *star* is very meaningless.

Time was that you actually had to have talent and skill and charisma and a showbiz resume' to be famous. Nowadays, you can spear a fish, puke in the woods, and voila, you're a household name. There are no stars anymore, only celebs. It's disgusting. Also to add to the last post, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Audra McDonald,and to a lesser extent, Chenoweth, are what I consider to be *big* theater stars, and I promise you, you would not be able to find 3 random people out in a crowd(and I don't mean TKTS) who would know them.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 12/20/03 at 1:07pm

"I guess my point is, a big name MAY bring'em in, but talent is what brings'em back! "

Got to thinking about this tiny comment and this discussion a bit. Perhaps, everything is realtive as to what is considered the biggest draw to live theater. Do people come to see the "star(s)" or the "show"? A few examples...

Boy From Oz = the star (Jackman)
Lion King = the show
Nine = the star (Bandaras)
Les Miz/Phantom = the show
Producers = the stars (Lane, Broderick,Brooks)granted the Tony's boosted sales, but they're star casting again for a reason.

Whatever happened to marvelous shows that had legendary stars that stayed more than a year that everyone loved...that lived in the house that Jack built? Is anyone interested in making some sense of this?

I am having a hard time recommending shows, these days. Years ago, that was never a problem. I keep hoping things will change.

Updated On: 12/20/03 at 01:07 PM

[Thetruth]

Posted: 12/20/03 at 1:53pm

TheaterB, I haven’t nor has anybody else (on this thread) called you a racist. Ignorant and uniformed (on this subject)...I might be compelled to call you that. You're right about one thing, which is that stereotyping is what we all do everyday and those stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason (they are based on some truth). I'm not arguing with you about what you said about some of P.Diddy's CD buying public not being able to afford tickets. I asked you to address what I said in my previous post about fans of his clothing line, TV show, label, restaurant patrons, etc seeing the show. I have a problem with you basing your assumption on the idea that the only fans P.Diddy has are the ones that buy his records and the idea that the only people that will see the show are the ones' that buy his records. I'm seeing the show, and I've never purchased one of his CD's. Everybody in the music industry will want to see this show. The man is a mogul. He knows how to promote himself like no other. I'm not even a fan of his, nor do I think he should be on Broadway. Still, I do have a problem with unfounded assumptions.

BroadwayNYC, down concert sales for one summer does not indicate anything about P. Diddy's ability to pull in an audience. Did P. Diddy even go on tour this summer? I don't know but do you? Even if he did, you've only addressed, like TheaterB, his music. Please consider his other business ventures and sources of notoriety.

Posted: 12/20/03 at 5:36pm

The truth is that producing an evening of theatre starring P. Diddy proves P.T. Barnum right--there is a sucker born every minute. This is no different from any other form of carnival huckterism, whick starts with the star himself.

Broadway has always had an element of cheap and tawdry throughout its history. This is simply a current example.

Yours for a better Broadway!

Bulldog.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 12/20/03 at 6:40pm

Updated On: 7/9/04 at 06:40 PM

[BillyLawlor]

Posted: 12/20/03 at 8:44pm

Wow- There's a lot to say on this topic.

As far as Theater Baby's comments, I would advise her not to post those on a public message board. Even should those happen to be true, they are offensive comments, and anyone who reads them could, for all you know, be deeply hurt by the comments posted. I am not going to state my personal opinions because, as Theater Baby already said, the smart thing to do is stay out of this.

As far as Big Celebs on Broadway, I agree that they are no more stars, there are only celebrities.
I think that stunt casting is fine because it brings audiences in. There's no need to get upset over it, just don't ruin the theater experience for YOURSELF if YOU don't want to see it, that's all. Of course it's important that they fit the role, though. That's a MUST. Of course I'm being optimistic here, but at least Melanie could ACT the role, right?
I didn't see her, but that's what I heard..

And I don't think there's any need to put stars in NEW shows. If you want to put a star in a show already running that isn't doing well to boost ticket sales, fine. But it shouldn't be encouraged except for that reason.

Hopefully, stunt casting won't completely dominate Broadway in the future.

[BroadwayNYC]

Posted: 12/21/03 at 12:21am

TheTruth, here's the thing....
P.Diddy has defined the term "entertainer," by branching out to various other projects aside from the "rap" thing. Maybe he does this because he has SO much money that he doesn't know what to do with, OR he might really be into projects he's branching out to like the clothing line or the resturaunt business or whatever he has going for himself.

My point is this: I don't think he can act. I only believe he's going to broadway because he thinks he can do it because he's "P. Diddy." There are so many stuggling broadway actors who are unknown and believe in their artform, and who are penniless, and are striving to make it into this business. I just don't like it when "the powers that are" just pluck celebreties and commit them to a run in order to make their profit. Also, it's very hard for me to associate a foul-mouth rapper with college-educated broadway actors who have studied this craft for four years + and is stuggling to make a name for themselves.
He may turn out to be good, etc, but he just seems like the kind of person who goes home and says "Clothing Line: DONE THAT," "Broadway: DONE THAT."
It's nice try to be good at everything, but stick to what you can do best.

[ktswaz]

Posted: 12/21/03 at 12:47am

As a HUGE fan of Michael Crawford's, I should be flattered. But I have to point out that his fame is because of the stage.

[newyorkuniq]

Posted: 12/21/03 at 1:44am

My opinion on this issue is if a person is a "big star" and can act and sing , then I really don't have a problem. In fact I think in many ways it is good because it brings in alot of people to Broadway who would not have seen a show otherwise. Many of these actors got a start on Broadway, just as many actors starting on Broadway now may be big movie stars someday.

[sharon1]

Posted: 12/21/03 at 9:51am

I thought I would stick in my two cents. Maybe P Diddy wants to try Broadway to try to legitimized his career. Get into the mainstream. Certainly Broadway would be the place to do that. I mean he would be on his own. No reps, no back ups, no seamstresses. Succeed or fail on his own. I never thought AB could do Nine but I guess I was wrong there. I think there are certain Broadway Stars that can put the "bums" in the seats no matter whether it is for locals or the out of towners. Bernadette, Stokes Mitchell are two. I know there are others. The same can be said of the West End. The boards gripe there about stunt casting. Henshall, Paige, and Ball put the audience in the seats but they also stick out for long runs, like the afore mentioned Broadway stars. Bottom line is the money the producers put up and what kind of risk they want to take. Right or wrong. Personally, I go to the theatre in NYC to see theatre not some movie star. Sorry if I offended anyone. Updated On: 12/21/03 at 09:51 AM

[BroadwayNYC]

Posted: 12/21/03 at 1:03pm

Big Broadway Celebs like B. Peters, E. Paige, M. Crawford, etc have made a name for themselves on Broadway. I would expect these broadway actors to fill up a theatre. It's where they started and where they chose to build a career on. I just don't get it when Big Celebs from other parts of showbiz like P Diddy just get into Broadway because of his connections and who he is. I believe Antonio Bandaras studied theatre before going to Hollywood.
Broadway is not Hollywood - not everyone can do Broadway. I just believe that you build a career on something you love. Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against P Diddy. But to me Broadway and theatre is something that has to be learned and practiced over and over. It means commitment. Don't mean to sound too serious about this subject.

[crp2000]

Posted: 12/21/03 at 1:56pm

Wow!! - the racial/cultural ignorance shining through in some of these 'P. Diddy' comments is quite disturbing, but far from surprising.

'Hats off' to those of you intelligent enough to focus on the mans acting skills and not the race/financial security of those who purchase his records.

I too would love to see more 'up and coming' stars on broadway instead of 'big celebs', however 'up and coming' doesn't sell tickets!! CNN/Dateline (one of those shows) did a special addressing this very topic. The producers/casting directors of one b-way show (Chicago - i believe) boldly stated that "it's all about ticket sales and not the discovery of new talent." Sad but true.

[Thetruth]

Posted: 12/21/03 at 11:51pm

There seems to be two diffrent issues here: The first one regarding whether celebs have the talent for broadway and the other being whether they can bring in a solid audience.

BroadwayNYC, my post was in regard to P.Diddy being able to pull in an audience. At this time I'm not going to even speculate what his performance might be like or his motives for wanting to do this play. This controversy will definitly be good for the show.

[redmustang]

Posted: 12/22/03 at 12:01am

As much as I really dislike BIG stars starring on Broadway, I had to make an emergency trip to NY to see Sally Field do The Goat. I had already seen the show with the original cast, but being the big Sally fan that I am, it was a no-brainer. I'm guilty. So slap me.

[lc1965]

Posted: 12/22/03 at 10:38am

Considering I have never heard of Joey Fatone & Michele Williams, I'm guessing they're not really "big" celebs & so the phrase is a very inexact one.

[Al Dente]

Posted: 12/22/03 at 10:41am

Which is what I've been saying all along. These are not, for the most part, "big celebs", we're dealing with. Thanks for getting it, Lc1. Updated On: 12/22/03 at 10:41 AM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/22/03 at 10:53am

If they're talented enough and fit the role like Hugh Jackman, then it can work well. If the show is good enough, it doesn't need a star when it opens (Rent or Les Mis).

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 12/22/03 at 10:57am

Updated On: 7/9/04 at 10:57 AM

Posted: 12/22/03 at 11:53am

For those of you that don't know me and can't hear the tone...my earlier post on this thread was meant as sarcasm. Just for the record. The "big" names mentioned are really a joke, not to mention an insult to the hundreds and thousands truly talented performers who have and will grace the stages of Broadway.

Bulldog.

[onceadancer2]

Posted: 12/22/03 at 12:29pm

What I've found out: if the show is not good, if the libretto is not coherent or muudled; if the music is undistinguished, overamplified, obtuse or ambiguous; if the lyrics ramble, reiterate or puzzle; if the choreography is loose, ramshackle or lacking in ingenuity; in the words of my great teacher and choreographer, George Balanchine: "is garbage."

[TheaterBaby]

Posted: 12/22/03 at 1:18pm

"he's got the odds stacked against him. if he pulls it off, and i never thought i'd ever be cheering for p. diddly but god help me i hope he does, it'll be fun to see folks eat crow."

I will definitely admit I'm wrong IF he does pull this off. I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong; I've done it before.
But, I never said anything about his acting. I've never seen him act, and therefore I would not judge him as good or bad before seeing him act. I merely feel that he may not bring in the large audiences that Producers are expecting him to bring in.

In reference to what TheTruth said, a couple of people did call me a racist...or at least said that what I said was racist. I am defensive in reguards to that because I have not said anything in this thread based on hate-filled feelings, which is what racism stems from...Hate. I based it on stereotypes, yes; but never on racist feelings.