Boring Sondheim Shows?- Page 5

[freeadmission]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 11:46pm

I never said that ALL of Sondheim's shows don't tell a good story and I specifically stated Sweeney as one that DOES entertain me (as well as make me think). Passion I have niether seen nor heard (poor college student here), so I can't pass judgment on it.

I still maintain that many of his shows do not tell a good story, they are too bogged down with the desire to philosophize and it drives me mad. Into the Woods annoys the crap out of me because it shoves it's little "message" down it viewers throats. Sunday aggravates me because it's so incredibly pretentious, I can't watched the filmed version without wanting to throw things at my TV. Okay, so maybe I don't really get THAT violent . . . I've learned to control those urges of late.

Point is, Sondheim is pretty damn cool, but he's not some infallible Broadway god as some make him out to be . . . not even close.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 11:49pm

So what are you thinking about when you see SWEENY TODD, that isn't happening right before your eyes? Why do you keep saying that his shows make you think? What does that mean, anyway? Don't you think when you see THE KING AND I or THE MUSIC MAN or THE DROWSY CHAPERONE, or any show, musical or otherwise? Whether I'm thinking or not, for Broadway kind of money, all I want to be is entertained; and, I'm not entertained by his music, or most of the shows he scores. And, I never said his shows were boring because they weren't melodic. I said his shows were boring AND they aren't melodic. The least I ask of from a musical, is a couple of good tunes. You need to stop thinking, and do more comprehending. Besides, unlike the Sondheim supporters, I've never said that you should feel the way I do. All I ever expressed were my feelings about his works, and have never implied that there was something wrong with the people who didn't share my viewpoint.

[DG]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 11:51pm

ljay - obviously not. BUT, I would be interested in the comparison between the experience of that 'Wicklyn' theatregoer and the 'typical' Sondheim fan (not that I believe there is such a thing, but we seem to have ended up in that place.)

If emotional and cathartic experience count for anything, the audiences at WICKED are coming away with more than the general Sondheim audience. Maybe the Sondheim crowd goes on to learn and study the book and score after the experience, and comes to some great awareness - but that's after the fact. Walking out of a theatre, I've experienced more audience elevation from other composer's works.

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 11:52pm

Yeah, but a show like Sunday purposely does not have a real plot. But a story really does evolve when you get into the show.
And COMPANY, well that show started it all! The first plotless broadway musical.

Anyway when I watch my Sunday DVD, I laugh, cry, and am very emotionally satisfied.

You may not find him to be that great. BUT many of us including plenty of theatre historians, critics, performers, etc.. really find him to be one of the greatest composers of all time.

And Johnboy, do you really find COMPANY not to be melodic? Come on. That sh*t is catchy!
Updated On: 6/23/06 at 11:52 PM

[freeadmission]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 11:53pm

Sweeney entertains the HELL outta me while I'm watching it. It's afterwords that I begin to think about it. How Sweeney's reaction was natural, but he took it too far and other such things. But while I'm watching that show, it does nothing but captivate me.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 11:53pm

That is one thing that I have noticed from the "Sondheim is god" camp (I know you are out there) . . . it seems like people in this group bash others for their taste in music but get offended when the tables are turned. But, everyone can fit in this category, huh? And yes, it is ALL just a matter of tastes.

[DG]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:02am

What part of my posts that state succinctly that I think he's a genius are not being understood? That really translates into me not thinking he's that great?

[Color and Light]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:09am

As a big Sondheim fan, I think this is a really interesting thread, and that great points have been made by both sides. I might not agree with all of them, but they've been argued well enough. Thank you for your opinions, and for explaining them, JohnBoy and DG. When you're nuts about someone, it's hard to step back and look at them objectively. Stephen Sondheim is still my favorite musical theater composer, but he is not without his flaws.

[DG]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:13am

Color and Light - I in no way wish to denigrate the experience of those who so obviously respond very emotionally to his work. It's completely understandable - if intangible. But my observation is that, for some who do respond to him that way, there's a complete lack of acceptance for those who do not.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:13am

Well put, Color and Light.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:13am

Gives color and light a hug!

[Color and Light]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:16am

I didn't get any hostility whatsoever from your posts, DG. And I completely agree - with Sondheim fans, I think there is a bigger tendency for them to get defensive and mean when someone doesn't like his work. You certainly aren't doing much to convince people that your idol is so great when you go around staring down your nose at people for disagreeing.

My sister, who is my best friend, absolutely hates Sunday in the Park with George. I mean, really, really hates it. Sunday is one of my top three favorite shows, if not my all time number one. The amazing miracle is that life goes on! Imagine. I think there's only one composer in the Broadway pantheon whose work I truly dislike, and even then, I don't see much of a point in trying to make his fans feel stupid or have bad taste for liking him.

Updated On: 6/24/06 at 12:16 AM

[DG]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:16am

DJ - this is ALL YOUR FAULT!

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:18am

But . . . But . . . Satan made me do it!

[DG]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:23am

"The miracle is that life goes on!"

Yes, indeed - so that we can experience IN MY LIFE!

[Color and Light]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:24am

Sondheim only wishes he had giant lemons and Tourettes.

Updated On: 6/24/06 at 12:24 AM

[ZONEACE]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:25am

doesn't everyone wish for that?

[DG]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:26am

I make do with a giant case of Tourettes.

[Color and Light]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:30am

I wonder what people here would be saying if Sondheim was the mastermind behind "In My Life".

[ZONEACE]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:32am

well, for one thing, it wouldn't have been nearly as good without Joe Brooks writing the score, book, lyrics, jingles, press release, synopsis, character breakdown, audition sides, etc.

[Color and Light]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:33am

Now that's love for your craft right there.

[DG]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:37am

Or insanity - which may very well be the same thing.

[Color and Light]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 12:39am

I feel like writing a parody of "Putting It Together" about IN MY LIFE now.

[buffyactsing]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 1:13am

Sunday isn't pretentious, though I see how it could be seen that way. Hell, again, I was in the "yawn" camp the first three times I watched it. It felt too structured to me, too ok, here we establish this, here we establish this, ect.

Pretentiousness (as I see it) writing about something you don't understand in an attempt to impress others.

Sunday, at it's core is actually very simple, and I think his most rewarding musical.

But then again, I'm also one of the wackos who prefers the 2nd act 2 the 1st (if one must choose).

Another thing I like about his work is very few people are "eh" about it. They seldom walk out of a show saying "that was nice, what's for dinner". There is debate, positive or negative and I think that's a lot more interesting.

Anyhow, not saying fluff is bad, but while everyone has a sweet tooth, once in awhile we want something hearty instead.

[Color and Light]

Posted: 6/24/06 at 1:47am

Buffy, I'm also one of those wackos that prefers the second act to the first one. I just think it's hard for most people to feel much sympathy for George in the first act. It doesn't help that many people are first exposed to the part through Mandy Patinkin. Now, I'm obviously too young to have seen it with the OBC, but on the DVD, his performance comes off as so self-indulgent and labored that it makes me cringe, especially in Act One. Combine some grating acting and a cold, somewhat callous character, and I think it's easy to make the first act less enjoyable.