Boring Sondheim Shows?- Page 3

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 6/22/06 at 11:54pm

You know why you're bored? Because, musically, there's no there, there. No melody. Nothing you want to sing. Nothing you want to remember. Nothing you can remember. Just droning, on and on and on. That's why the public has, virtually, dismissed his shows.

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:00am

Alright... now... everyone has an opinion and all that but...

"That's why the public has, virtually, dismissed his shows."

Gypsy and West Side Story? Totally dismissed... not like two of the most popular and well known classic musicals... nope not at all. Into the Woods? It def. NOT one of the most performed musicals in High Schools and Junior Highs... absolutely not. A Little Night Music? It most certainly didn't spawn a huge hit for Frank Sinatra and Judy Collins. Not at all. Sweeny Todd? That's not in the process of being made into a movie starring one of the hottest hollywood stars of the moment. Stephen Sondheim? No one will remember anything he's done in five years. Virtually dismissed.


kmc

Updated On: 6/23/06 at 12:00 AM

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:04am

I find SUNDAY is a show that people either love or hate. For me I love it. I find it so beautiful, and I am really moved by it. The score is fabulous.
Sondheim has said it himself, Sunday is a very weird show. And I love it for how weird it is. I hate a musical that is the same as every old musical.
I really hope the London revival transfers, it got amazing reviews.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:06am

I'm talking about melody, here. He didn't write the melodies to GYPSY or WEST SIDE STORY. Calling those shows Sondheim shows, is ridiculous. The lyrics to both those shows, and all of his music-composed shows is excellent.

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:12am

"That's why the public has, virtually, dismissed his shows."

This is such a ridiculous statement. Yes, sometimes the public dismiss his work. BUT any critic, and anybody that really knows about theatre, can tell you Sondheim is one of the all time greatest composers of Broadway. Some even consider him the greatest! For me, it's Sondheim and Cy Coleman. Amazing composers.

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:13am

"BUT any critic..."

paging Walter Kerr


kmc

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:15am

If it's such a ridiculous statement, then why did you agree with it?

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:15am

Well I should've made that most critics. Because it's very true.

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:18am

"Calling those shows Sondheim shows, is ridiculous"

Not really. Just the truth.


kmc

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:18am

Again, Sondheim fanatic = theater snob!

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:20am

I don't think Sondheim Fan=Theater Snob... but often Theater Snob=Sondheim Fan. I don't think that says anything about Sondheim though.

kmc

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:20am

Sondheim didn't write the music for Do I Hear a Waltz? either...while we're at it

The only Sondheim show I didn't like was The Frogs....at least the version that played Lincoln Center a few years ago.I resented paying big bucks to hear Nathan Lane spout his political philosophy. Even Roger Bart wasn't good in The Frogs and that's really saying something.

[DG]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:20am

Whatever appreciation I have for his talents - and they are prodigious - I just don't like seeing his shows.

I've never understood why that was SO threatening to his fans. It's as if I walked into a church and peed on the altar.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:22am

Why do people who LOOOOOOOOVE Sondheim get all huffy, when someone doesn't, and begin insulting them? I've said nothing against fans of Sondheim. I was speaking of my feelings about him. And, please do not quote critics to me. I can't think of a profession that is more meaningless to me.

Sondheim didn't write the music for Do I Hear a Waltz? either...while we're at it

Yes, and since you mentioned it, his lyrics are painfully inferior to Rodgers' music. One of the few times his lyrics stink.
Updated On: 6/23/06 at 12:22 AM

[musicman89]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 12:52am

Although I have never seen actual productions, THE FROGS and BOUNCE left me returning their cast recordings for a refund.

[LostLeander]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 2:17am

Eep, heated stuff here.

Sondheim is NEVER boring for me, but I really like to think. And Sondheim makes me think. NOT THAT IF YOU DON'T LIKE SONDHEIM IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE STUPID, because that's not true. I understand that some people just don't like his music.

Sondheim to me, is the master. Clear and simple.
He is the Shakespeare of Musical Theatre, and I think that's how he'll be seen.
That was an OPINION, but a very common opinion. From experts, critics, muscial theatre queens, plebians, and theatre snobs alike.

Passion, to me, is hard to get through. The music is gorgeous, but in a very detailed and subtle way, so you must be completely aware the entire time. It's hard, cause sometimes, you just want to sit back and listen, and not think.
Never boring though. I don't get bored with Sondheim... he always gives you something to chew on, lyrically, if not musically.

His lyrics for Passion are not his best. They're sometimes clunky, and forced to me.

But Sondheim in the 70s and 80s is Musical Theatre at it's best.
And I think the climax is Sunday. Wholly entertaining, poignant, gorgeous.. perfect, in my estimation.

And yes, I am a proud theatre snob. And an even prouder Sondheim snob.

[buffyactsing]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 3:26am

I think Sondheim fans often "get all huffy" when people take non-constructive issue with his work because it means so much to them.

Take Sunday for instance. I found it entirely dull the first, oh, 3 times I watched it. I kept trying however, both because one of the people I look up to was a huge fan and because, hey, it was Sondheim. Eventually, little by little, I started to appreciate it and catch the little life-lessons within it.

Passion also wasn't a right-away-hit with me. I was bored. The music was boring and all sounded the same and stuff. (Well you get the point)

Both are now my two favorite shows. I find them awe-inspiring and give me hope in their own ways when I feel lost. This may sound sad, but in a way, they are a spiritual guide. In high school I felt much the same about Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel. When people wouldn't give them a chance and dismiss them merely on heresay or from watching one episode and decided "it sucked", I would be upset because they meant so much to me.

Some Sondheim critics never give his works any real shot. While this of course goes for other writers too, I don't think the other writers reach in to the soul the way Sondheim does. He not only touches your soul, but enlightens it.

*sermon done*

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 3:30am

I totally understand why some are bored by Sondheim (and company's) shows. Just as some are bored by Shakespeare, Shaw and classic American and European drama. Serious theatre has always attracted a more limited audience. You have to invest more time and energy but in the end you reap more rewards.

Now, many of you are probably bored by LONG DAY'S JOURNEY INTO NIGHT. Does the fact that it 389 performances (in 1956) while AUNTIE MAME (which opened a few weeks earlier) ran 639 performances in a larger house make the latter a better play? Hardly. What it means is that AUNTIE MAME being a light hearted comedy attracted a larger audience.

We still have plenty of those kinds of shows today.

I like the way the musicals now can be taken seriously and tell unusual or difficult stories. I think it is encouraging that shows like LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA can exist in tandem with SPAMALOT and THE WEDDING SINGER.

The suggestion that the perceived weakness in the Sondheim shows is more the fault of the book writer than Sondheim himself is an interesting one. Many have faulted the books for FOLLIES, PACIFIC OVERTURES and SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE, yet it is those same books that inform the scores.

Sondheim could not have written "In Buddy's Eyes" or "Someone in a Tree" or "Finishing the Hat" had John Weidman and James LaPine not provided the characters and situations for Sondheim to explore.

He collaborates so well with the book writers, that the shows have a seamlessness that most musicals do not.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 4:38am

I think Sondheim in an excellent lyricist -- a poet, if you will. If you read his songs, it's almost like reading poetry. His music, however, leaves a lot to be desired.

[FranklinShepard-Inc.]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 6:07am

I'm more than a bit surprised about this thread.

Honestly, given the fact that almost all Sondheim musicals were on Broadway a most fascinating experience, they of course can appear boring when they lose the very magic they had whilst executed properly.

About the last post: that he's an excellent lyricist probably no one will doubt. Yet with which composers do you compare him? It's a fact that he doesn't totally write like Jerome Kern or Richard Rodgers. On the other hand, compared with current Broadway composers, he isn't really too far off stylistically with the aforementioned. Plus: there are many influences by classical music composers in Sondheim's work. So who do you compare him with? Rodgers? Lloyd Webber? Guettel? Mathew Sklar? Or Ravel?
The fact that Sondheim's music stretches so far must be taken into account. And on the other hand, I find his music by far more catchy than Lloyd Webber's. But that's maybe just me.

[Urban]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 8:05am

'A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forum' just isn't my cup of tea, I wouldn't say it was boring-boring but it is the closest I have to a Sondheim show I think is.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 8:16am

Three pages!?!?! Wow. You guys took this further that I thought you would have. Anyway, my point has been expressed throughout this thread. If someone does not like Sondheim, people get trashed for it . . . . but those same Sondheim fans will tell someone in a second that another composer/lyricist is the worst thing to happen to musical theatre. Now, what is my opinion on Sondheim? I like him, as I have said many times before, but I find some of his stuff boring. A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO THE FORUM is a complete bore to me. Now, I like all of his other cds (I say "CDs" because I have not seen any of his shows live) but there are moments that I skip, like I do with other composers. This thread was not made to trash Sondheim, but again to say that even the greatest of the greats has his moments.

Also, I have never understood the "makes you think" argument. What is this, algebra?

Updated On: 6/23/06 at 08:16 AM

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 8:44am

This thread has become as tedious and boring as a Sondheim show! Seriously, it's enlightening to discover that every person who posts here isn't a Sondheim disciple. Because, until this thread, I thought I was the only person here who wasn't a fan.

[Christoph]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 8:59am

Reply to kjisgroovy

I will keep an open mind on the Company revival then. It will probably help that I have not seen it previously, whereas I had seen several versions of Sweeney.

[singingwendy]

Posted: 6/23/06 at 10:05am

It's all about what appeals to you... some people like Sondheim, some prefer Rodgers and Hammerstein, some prefer Lloyd Webber, some prefer LaChiusa. That's the beauty of the world, we don't all have to like the same things.

In the same token, I think that the variety of styles and choices in Broadway makes it difficult for people to say "I don't like musicals" because there are so many different options out there. It's like saying, "I don't like movies" because you didn't like The DaVinci Code.

What a bland world it would be without variety. So, Sondheim.....is he your cup of tea? Maybe not....you might find him boring but others consider him genius. It's a combination of his work and your experiences.