Boring Sondheim Shows?- Page 7

[Maureen_Johnson]

Posted: 6/26/06 at 1:01am

Act two in Sunday in the Park and a good portion of act one I found quite boring. But Sondheim's work in general is nowhere close to boring.

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/26/06 at 1:06am

I feel another misconception from the "Sondheim is boring camp" is that the Sondheim fans only care for the more serious musicals, and don't enjoy the fun classics.

I'm a HUGE Kander & Ebb fan, huge Cy Coleman fan, love Bernstein, etc. I love everything from Wonderful Town, to Chicago, Bye Bye Birdie, to Hello Dolly, etc. Thank you very much.
Updated On: 6/26/06 at 01:06 AM

[LostLeander]

Posted: 6/26/06 at 1:34am

And I also REALLY like Golden Aged musicals.
And Lippa, and JRB, and Kander & Ebb, and Herman, etc.

I LOVE Musical Theatre, I just think some is better than other.
I do think Sondheim is the greatest, though.

But that's what I'm me, and you're you.

I'm thoroughly bored by Saturday Night. I've only listened to it once though.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/26/06 at 7:57am

Wow, we have had some really good discussions in here without having a cat fight (A rarity in these parts).

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/26/06 at 8:51am

Can we have a group hug?

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 6/26/06 at 1:10pm

You're obviously more passionate about your admiration for the piece, frontrow, than I am about my disdain for it. I fail to see how most of what you state, elevates the show to a level higher than mediocre. Just because something is different, doesn't make it great.

3. The use of songs to reveal what the characters really think and feel. Traditional musical structure has two people meeting and falling in love ("If I Loved You" and the entire bench scene in CAROUSEL is considered the finest development in words and music of this idea.) In COMPANY, nobody falls in love. Robert has sex (quite a lot it seems) but at the climax of his scene with April she cries out "I love you." Of course she isn't really in love, just in the throes of passion but Robert can't bring himself to lie back to here and hesitates (to a rather harsh guitar sting.)

Yes, I recall the audience laughing at that, when I saw it. It was rather silly, because there was nothing about the characters that made you care about them.

4. The use of pastiche: The best example of which is the Andrews Sisters styled "You could drive a person crazy."

What's another example? Again, not sure how this raises the production to a level above mediocrity.

5. "Being Alive" - one the most beautiful and heartbreaking 11:00 numbers ever.

Really? I find it rather uninteresting, melodically, and overwrought, dramatically. But, I asked, "other than the score", which is very much a matter of taste.

6. The dialogue. The characters are all wearing masks and in the birthday party scene they play "attitudes" to hide their emotions. SO their banter is superficial and more than a little bitchy. Only when the characters sing ("Sorry Grateful", "Someone is waiting", "Getting Married Today") do we learn what they really think and feel.

I recall us cringing at what was passing for sophisticated and glib dialog, even in 1970! It played very silly, then. When I did a production of it, years later, it actually played better, because it came off like a bit of a time capsule piece; which, of course, it wasn't. Nobody really spoke like these people. Nobody real, at least.

7. The "sound" of COMPANY was very contemporary for 1970. But unlike HAIR which dated very quickly, COMPANY still sounds of its era without being anachronistic.

Again, you're talking score; and, we'll have to agree to disagree here. The music is quite dated, imo. Even when I saw it, I remember thinking that it had a bit of a phony "contemporary" sound to it. Much less real contemporary than PROMISES, PROMISES, which I had seen, a couple of years prior, and which sounded far more innovative to me.

8. Though the show was very much a product of its time, the themes of loneliness and isolation in the big city are still relevant. While most musicals portray love and sex in the context of a happily ever after fairy-tale, COMPANY is a more realistic look at our ambivalent feelings. We are all sorry-grateful at different times. And as much as many of us view the idea of falling in love and living happily ever after, the truth is there is no happily and no ever after. It's all one day at a time and the little things (good and bad) that you do together is indeed what makes a perfect relationship. (The idea that perfect is not always happy or ideal is in itself worthy of an entire play.)

Okay, that's all pretty much true; but, so what? It's not necessarily what I would find entertaining, without somebody to really care about and root for their success. COMPANY is void of that.

9. Barcelona. The post-coital duet for Robert and April has a lovely, haunting melody infused with an over-arcing sadness. They made a connection had some very hot and passionate sex and now...there is nowhere else for their relationship to go. This is an idea never previously explored in a musical. Or since, as far as I know. And given the nature of contemporary relationships, it seems more and more relevant.

I have to take your word for that. Left no impact on me at the time, other than another dull tune.

10. Flawed, unlikable characters. Yes some of them are downright obnoxious. (You almost want to belt Sarah the way she keeps correcting minor details in her husband's stories. And Joanne is someone you would be trying to avoid at any party.) Even as archetypes, they are realistic. In fact outside of Madame Rose in GYPSY (***she is either called "Mamma" or "Madame Rose" or "Rose." Nowhere is she ever called "Mamma Rose." Look at the script.***) these are probably the most unlikable yet fascinating characters ever to inhabit a musical.

I find nothing fascinating about the characters, just obnoxious. They aren't people I want to know or spend any time in their company (pun intended). I have now exhausted any and all interest in Sondheim and/or COMPANY. What I do find fascinating, is that when I saw the show, I never dreamed I would be discussing it, over 35 years later!


Updated On: 6/26/06 at 01:10 PM

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 6/26/06 at 1:58pm

There's no need for catfights because we are comparing opinions, and no opinion is wrong.

It also helps remind us that shows that are generally regarded as theatrical milestones still do not please everyone.

I was surprised to see a number of people in the posts under "Shows You Hate" listed classics like OKLAHOMA! writing it off as "boring." (That is too facile. They just don't want to be bothered thinking about what they didn't like about it.)

Shows like the ones discussed on this subject cannot be boring if they can provoke so much lively (and fascinating) debate.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/26/06 at 2:48pm

You're right, there is not need for a cat fight, but you know how things go around here. And Oklahoma! boring? **faints**

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/26/06 at 2:49pm

For me, it is Bounce, Frogs and Follies.

[sondheimboy2]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 12:23am

Why don't we switch to a topic much less incediary......like whether or not "Brokeback Mountain" should have won best picture....?

[DG]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 1:52am

If Sondheim had written the score for BROKEBACK, I would have hated it more than I aready did - which I wouldn't have thought possible.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 7:46am

I still haven't seen BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN. All that hype and discussion when it first came out, kind of turned me off about wanting to see it. I wonder what Sondheim would do with the score, though!?!?! **scratches chin**

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 10:00am

I haven't seen BROKEBACK, either. I just never saw a single clip that sparked any interest in seeing it. I suppose I will, one day, though.

[Danielm]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 2:42pm

My trouble with this is the word "boring". I guess I don't get bored at theatre very often. I don't find ALW boring but some of his shows annoy me--Cats because it feels so cutesy. I don't especially like "Passion" but not because it's boring--because the story makes me uncomfortable, it's too much like an experience I had. I think people often say they are "bored" because they can't say exactly why they don't like something. I think it's perfectly reasonable not to like a Sondheim show--with Follies I think until you've reached a certain age or life experience you don't understand what it's about. Also, I think a lot of people commenting haven't seen the shows and are basing their judgement on the OCRs.

[Christoph]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 2:59pm

freeadmission: I truly believe that is the nicest thing anyone has said to me...Ever (LOL).

[freeadmission]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 3:01pm

I aim to please.

*courtly bow*

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 3:37pm

I found PASSION "boring" because it put me to sleep! Danielm, I think people are saying Sondheim's music is boring. It's not melodious or even hummable, for the most part. I think a lot of people are really turned off by that. If a show is boring, it's not the composer's fault though their tunes could ease the boredom.

[Danielm]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 4:52pm

Wow, stagemanager2, I find his music emminently hummable. I think the whole "hummable" thing is pretty silly. You don't like the music, I understand that. I think you're very, very wrong. Also, the question wasn't "is his music boring" it was "bored by Sondheim shows". I think maybe you're just not informed enough to understand his music.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 5:05pm

I understand that the thread has been titled "Bored by Sondheim Shows," but a lot of the complaints here have been about his music, some of which I like, i.e INTO THE WOODS, SWEENEY TODD. What do you mean I'm not "informed enough" to understand his music? Is there a college course that helps one to appreciate Sondheim? That was quite condescending of you.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 7:08pm

Yes, I'd like to know what informed means? I did shows (mostly musicals), from the age of 9 to the age of 31, when I decided to stop. I've seen most Broadway (and a few West End) shows since the 1950s. I feel I'm pretty informed; and, I do not like Sondheim's music. So, would you please explain what I was supposed to do to be informed?

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 7:32pm

Nothing makes me laugh more than the comment "His scores aren't good because they aren't melodic and/or hummable."

Truly a laughable statement. So basically being able to hum a score makes it good? So you totally reject a Sondheim score, or a score in general because you can't hum it?

Sondheim's scores are complex. They take time, you can't give up on them because you can't hum them. They are complex for the listeners and ofcourse the performers.

Also funny, I was humming SEND IN CLOWNS while writing this post..

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 7:50pm

Well, I've sung a few of his scores, having done productions of COMPANY, FOLLIES and FORUM. I still don't like his music. And, it certainly wasn't anymore complex, and less so, in fact, than singing Richard Rodgers or Burton Lane of Frederick Lowe, or any other composer's music that I've sung in my lifetime. And, just for the record, people find all sorts of things boring, that other people like. You Sondheim fans need to accept that and move on.
Updated On: 6/27/06 at 07:50 PM

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 8:49pm

Ijay889, I didn't say that his "scores aren't good because they aren't melodic and/or hummable." I said some people (including me) tend to find them boring because of it. Nowhere in my post did I allude to him being a bad composer. Sondheim has a style that is an acquired taste for some, and frankly he is not my cup of tea a lot of the time.

Updated On: 6/27/06 at 08:49 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 9:06pm

Johnboy, I think you need to move on. The majority of the posts in this thread are from you!

And many professional performers have gone to say they enjoy performing in Sondheim shows, because the complexity of his scores. It is a rewarding challenge for Broadway performers.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 6/27/06 at 9:48pm

Except this is the Bored by Sondheim shows, thread ljay; and, you're clearly not bored by them. So why do you keep posting counter to those of us who don't care for the shows or the music? Updated On: 6/28/06 at 09:48 PM