CAROUSEL on Live At Lincoln Center Tonight at 9PM!! — Page 4

It's a very dark musical. Always has been. Julie and Billy desired and loved each other but they are poster children for dysfunctional train wreck relationships. Having said that, CAROUSEL is my favorite and, in my view, the best work of Rodgers and Hammerstein. I had to give up my ticket for the February 27th performance, which bummed me out big time. Thank God for PBS and LIVE FROM LINCOLN CENTER.

>> "And yet the show was a success even then. A testament to the power of the score, I think."

IMO, the success of the show is (mostly) due to one song, You'll Never Walk Alone. (Don't get me wrong -- I do love the whole score)

BUT... Even if you can't empathize with the characters, their actions, the misogynistic themes and the abuse (some people feel that even Carrie suffers a form of abuse by Mr. Snow's insistence on a large family even though she clearly expresses that she does not want that for herself in "When the Children Are Asleep") -- even if you can't abide all of that, you still leave the theater with that glorious hymn of hope and security ringing in your ears.

Updated On: 4/28/13 at 04:43 PM

How do we know that, best12? "What's the Use of Wonderin'?" isn't that far from "Can't Help Lovin' Dat Man of Mine". I'm not questioning his importance or talent, but Hammerstein was idealistic to the point of sentimentality when it came to the redemptive power of a good woman's love.

I'm rather surprised at the praise of CAROUSEL as a whole show. I agree that the score is exquisite and maybe CAROUSEL's fans are music lovers.

But when it comes to plot, character and action, Julie Jordan (and even Nettie!) are too perfect to exhibit any depth. And Good Time Charlie, er, Billy is deliberately just as shallow.

CAROUSEL doesn't embody our national self-image as OKLAHOMA! does. And I don't see the exploration of women's rights as central to the story in the way racism is to SOUTH PACIFIC.

I'm sure this will be received as heresy, but, frankly, even THE SOUND OF MUSIC has more dramatic action and more complex characters. Both Maria and the Captain actually evaluate their own behavior and change for the better.

>> "R&H were TYRING to get a rise out audiences when Julie tells Carrie the slap felt more like a kiss."

It's not that I disagree with you. I think you're point about R&H wanting people to think, and your example of "...Carefully Taught" are true, but that line about the slap is pulled directly from Molnár's Liliom. Molnár was extremely protective of his work and R&H were walking on eggs to please him.

Oddly, I can understand Julie describing the slap in speaking about herself, and her own feelings. What I found "offensive" was seeing how that passive acceptance was passed on to her daughter, Louise.

To your point (and you're absolutely right), it DID make me think...

Updated On: 4/28/13 at 05:26 PM

>>"What's the Use of Wonderin'?" isn't that far from "Can't Help Lovin' Dat Man of Mine"."

To my mind, the latter speaks to the character of the woman ("I'm just a fool for love! Even if he's shiftless, I love 'em anyway"). The former speaks to the hopelessness of longing for change ("That's all there is to that... nothing can be done about it so it's a waste of time to wonder about different circumstances").

"But about the lack of rehearsal, I hear you..but anyone here see the recent performance of Ragtime at Lincoln Center? (you had to see it in person - it was not televised). Granted it done with minimal staging and the actors used books, but it was also very under-rehearsed. The difference to me as that every single person in the cast was perfect both as actors and singers in their parts...it was impossible NOT to be involved in what was presented. That was sadly lacking here."

I just want to say that you're absolutely entitled to that opinion but I couldn't disagree more. I had minor issues with certain choices and I certainly thought some performances were more well-rounded and developed than others, but I was completely engrossed from the moment the orchestra played the first notes of the waltz. To me, hearing that score the way it was meant to be played and hearing it sung more beautifully than its ever been sung was more than enough to pull me in, and I had far fewer issues with the casting and acting choices than others seemed to, across the board. Aside from Gunn and O'Hara, I thought Stephanie Blythe acquitted herself wonderfully, and Jason Danieley and Shuler Hensley brought quite a lot to their smaller roles. And I definitely did not get "New York" from Danieley and Mueller at all. I was really impressed with everything from top to bottom, and I want to believe that I would've been fairly choosy as Carousel is one of my favorite musicals and has been since I was a little girl.

Obviously, everyone is entitled to disagree with me and think what they think, but I just wanted to put out there that I had a very different experience watching it both live and on the Broadcast.

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>> "I just wanted to put out there that I had a very different experience watching it both live and on the Broadcast."

And that's why I enjoy these kinds of threads where the participants speak civilly, without the name-calling and the "knives". I get to speak respectfully with people whose views differ from mine.

I like it!

Updated On: 4/28/13 at 06:03 PM

>> "both songs are pretty clear that a woman is helpless once she falls in love with a jerk."
Yup. I can agree with that, too. I wonder if we should consider Showboat and Carousel as "period pieces" in terms of social thinking (at this point, they sure are "last century"...)?

Updated On: 4/28/13 at 06:08 PM

>> "In the same vein, I'm not saying best12bars is wrong. His view of the play just strikes me as more Brecht than Hammerstein, given my understanding of both."

It's really (technically) more Molnár than either Brecht or Hammerstein. Molnár refused the rights to his play to both Pucchini (for an opera) and Weil (as a musical). He wanted his play to be associated only with himself - not another author/composer. It was only after he saw Oklahoma! that he was impressed enough by R&H to allow them the rights to his show. Even then, he kept a close eye on their work as it progressed.

I have to admit that I would LOVE to have heard what Kurt Weil would have done with Liliom. It just seems too perfectly matched for his style of music. But then, we wouldn't have You'll Never Walk Alone (or it would have shown up in a different context/score - maybe not as effectively...).

Poor Molnár... His worst fear pretty much came true. Today, who's ever heard of, or seen a production of Liliom? ...but who doesn't know Carousel?

Updated On: 4/28/13 at 06:32 PM

>> "Brecht liked the idea of sending his audience out into the street angry and questioning. Hammerstein was more likely to work in declarative statements: 'You're doing fine, Oklahoma/Oklahoma, OK!' or 'You've got to be taught/Before it's too late.' "

Now, see what you've done? You've taught me something. Damn you...

Updated On: 4/28/13 at 07:06 PM

I have DVR'd the concert and I thought the casting Gunn, Mueller, Danieley, Hensley, Cullum and Burton were perfect. O'Hara was an alright Julie but sometimes her soprano voice can be strained at times especially her rendition of "What's The Use of Wonderin" which the keys were lowered. Blythe has a very good singing voice, but I didn't care for the (again) lowering the keys of "You'll Never Walk Alone". Tiler Peck and Robert Fairchild were amazing dancers but I wish that Josh Rhodes would've done the choreography instead of Warren Carlyle. Other than that, it was a well-sung and well-staged concert production.

Billy messes up big-time, and gets a second chance to redeem himself.

But he doesn't! That's why this all makes no sense to me.

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His chance at redemption did not work to me at all.

I never thought he actually believed anything he did was wrong, he just found himself dead and nowhere to go.

His mourning and You'll Never Walk Alone didn't work either. She was walking alone to begin with, with that good for nothing.

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