CAROUSEL on Live At Lincoln Center Tonight at 9PM!!- Page 3

[BroadwayFan12]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 5:10pm

With the exceptions of Gunn and Blythe, I thought it was perfectly cast. I understand that they had to trim parts of it, but I wish they hadn't. It was a great production.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 5:27pm

Maybe I'm just being greedy, but for a concert I don't really get why parts had to be trimmed. At least they didn't cut Judge (my only real issue with when I saw the Hytner production on tour.)

I don't really know Carlyle's work as choreography so can't judge too much--I just found it indistinctive. But I guess I know both the DeMille and the MacMillan choreography for that dance so well, thanks to the filmed performances, that it may not be fair to judge (the only other work I know from him is seeing Who's That Woman on youtube from Follies--and again, compared to Bennett it's hard to to top.)

[Younger Brother]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 6:10pm

Just watching it now. Jessie and Kellie are fantastic together!

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 6:38pm

I thought Carlyle's choreography for Louise was beautiful, though I too don't know why the ballet was truncated. I loved MacMillan's choreography, but I'm sure it would have suffered because of the limited space.

Updated On: 4/27/13 at 06:38 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 6:58pm

I didn't see the OBC, but if we're honest, John Raitt wasn't the strongest actor either.

He was just the best singer on the planet in Billy Bigelow's vocal range. (And, in later years when I worked with him, a hell of a nice guy and hard-working professional.)

So there's precedent.

[Kelly2]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 7:03pm

Obviously almost the entire principal cast of this production would be unavailable now but seeing this wonderful performance live and now on PBS made me wonder if there's room for a Carousel revival on Broadway sometime soon? I just love this score so much and I'd absolutely love to see it accompanied by a full production and all of the omitted choreography, scoring, and dialogue. Sadly, my only exposure to it prior to this was the movie version and a few very bad regional productions.

I was very curious about the Goodspeed production, James Snyder and Erin Davie seem like wonderful choices for Billy and Julie.

[AC126748]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 7:09pm

I didn't see the OBC, but if we're honest, John Raitt wasn't the strongest actor either.

Raitt was a decent actor with a magnificent voice. Gunn is pretty much a non-actor with a magnificent voice. There's a big difference.

Having seen Gunn in several fully staged operas, and as Ravenal in Chicago last year, I'd say he's a throwback to the "park-and-bark" style of operatic acting. Wooden and uncharismatic. I honestly don't know if a singer who didn't look as good as him, but who had similar vocal talents, would get by as well in today's operatic world.

[noradesmond]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 7:11pm

Just watched online at pbs.com and absolutely loved it. Always one of my favorite scores and never had an opportunity to see a decent staging - the movie sucks. Do NOT understand the criticisms posted here. Everybody to their own opinions but those who say they were bored? Really?? Kelli O'Hara was sublime. And I now understand the love for Jessie Mueller. She was delightful. Nathan Gunn sings beautifully but was wooden at times. But as was also mentioned by others, so was John Raitt. Whatever the flaws, I found this to be a beautiful performance of one of musical theater's treasures. Well done!

[Skip2]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 7:15pm

I never found Gunn to be wooden. Just the opposite. He felt TOO loose. Modern in demeanor. Not period enough.

But the show is lacking in dramatic tension, especially the end. Moments come out of the blue with no build up and we are expected to appreciate the emotion. It just doesn't work as a cohesive piece.

[Kelly2]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 10:06pm

N/M.

Updated On: 4/27/13 at 10:06 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 10:10pm

That's not allowed.

[Kelly2]

Posted: 4/27/13 at 10:12pm

Removed with apologies then! :) I was only trying to help those who hadn't been able to get the stream to work.

Updated On: 4/27/13 at 10:12 PM

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 12:49am

"I was very curious about the Goodspeed production, James Snyder and Erin Davie seem like wonderful choices for Billy and Julie."

Kelly2, thanks for posting the PBS link - I watched the Lincoln Centre concert this afternoon.

I was also fortunate enough to see the Goodspeed production multiple times (went back other weekends because it impressed me so much), and James Snyder was absolutely astonishing as Billy. His singing was divine and his acting was perfect. I had seen the show before but that production was the first time that Billy seemed like a deeply flawed person as opposed to just a violent jerk, and for the first time it was possible to understand how Julie might get stuck not wanting to walk away (and let's face it, that's not just a period problem - even today people sometimes still make that same tragic choice in similar situations).

But back to your point, the acting and singing in the Billy role of that production were so perfect, I have never seen or heard anything like it before, and I would absolutely invest the money myself for a transfer if i had it to invest.

I saw Teal Wicks and Erin Davie both on different weekends that I went, and I enjoyed both of their performances, for slightly different reasons. I think Erin's acting moved me more, but i liked Teal's singing slightly better, but overall i was pleased with both of them and thought that they each did a great job.

And I know that it is almost like a form of blasphemy to say this to you, but I did think that Jenn Gambatese did an even better job of capturing Carrie than our beloved Jessie Mueller, whom I do love and have enjoyed in Drood and hope to see again in other shows. She had a more friendly open quality in the way that she portrayed Carrie, and found lots of the humour in lines that Jessie sort of blew past. Maybe in a staged performance with more rehearsal that could come out more, though.

Anyhow, I would love to see Carousel come to Broadway in a fully staged production, preferably with James Snyder as Billy and Jenn Gambatese as Carrie. Maybe Jessie Mueller as Julie, by way of a peace offering? Although I think Kelli would also be great. :)


Updated On: 4/28/13 at 12:49 AM

[Kelly2]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 12:54am

"Anyhow, I would love to see Carousel come to Broadway in a fully staged production, preferably with James Snyder as Billy and Jenn Gambatese as Carrie. Maybe Jessie Mueller as Julie, by way of a peace offering? :)"

Haha, I respect your opinion on Jenn and I haven't seen her performance, but unfortunately her voice really just is not my taste, and there's just something in her mannerisms that irrationally irks me. Don't worry, I'm totally aware that's my personal thing and probably has absolutely NOTHING to do with how good or bad she is as a performer or how good or bad her performances are, I just can't get into her as an actress. Also, part of what I loved about Mueller's Carrie is I finally felt like the character wasn't just comic relief, not to say Gambatese was only comic relief obviously I haven't seen her, but Carrie felt much more human to me. Jessie felt like a truly organic fit in the part, like she came out of the womb fluent in Rodgers & Hammerstein. I never once felt like she was "playing" Carrie, she just was Carrie.

But I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Jessie take on Julie, and I'd definitely enjoy seeing Snyder as Billy, I've enjoyed him in quite a few things before and I really wish I'd gotten to see him in that part, I'm sure he was great.

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 1:10am

"But I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Jessie take on Julie, and I'd definitely enjoy seeing Snyder as Billy, I've enjoyed him in quite a few things before and I really wish I'd gotten to see him in that part, I'm sure he was great. "

Carousel was the first time i had seen or heard him in anything, and I hadn't heard of him before that, but afterward, blown away by his singing, I starting looking for other cast recordings with him singing and found Bare: A Pop Opera (and he sounds great on that too, as do the other leads). I also found out that he was in Crybaby and Fanny, but that there are no recordings of those. Is there anything else that he was in, and/or recordings of him singing other musicals? I'd certainly be interested in listening to them if so. Thanks!

[Kelly2]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 1:15am

"Is there anything else that he was in, and/or recordings of him singing other musicals? I'd certainly be interested in listening to them if so. Thanks!"

I saw him in Bare and Cry-Baby, but I also worked with him on a series of readings he did a few years back, which was my first exposure to him. Sadly, he seems to have cleverly avoided having his talent properly preserved thus far, hope that changes soon.

I guess I just wonder about the logistics of a Carousel revival? Artistically, there's so much to work with and there's so much young talent out there that could bring new life to those roles, but in the current climate, financially it seems like creating a hit out of it would be rough going.

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 2:03am

"I guess I just wonder about the logistics of a Carousel revival? Artistically, there's so much to work with and there's so much young talent out there that could bring new life to those roles, but in the current climate, financially it seems like creating a hit out of it would be rough going."

Is that really different from any other broadway show trying to make it in a climate of heavy competition from other forms of entertainment, or do you specifically mean that Carousel might struggle more than other shows or revivals? If the latter, why? I think the themes are still issues today, and the music still soars. The sexism can probably be overlooked as a product of its time - it is certainly not the only show that has it. Are there other issues that make you worry more about Carousel's chance of revival success than for other shows?

Updated On: 4/28/13 at 02:03 AM

[Kelly2]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 2:10am

"The sexism can probably be overlooked as a product of its time - it is certainly not the only show that has it. Are there other issues that make you sorry more about Carousel's chance of revival success than for other shows?"

Well, quite a few of my friends who saw this most recent incarnation mentioned to me how uncomfortable the domestic violence made them and how they felt there HAD to be a better way to handle it. In terms of content, I think that you can certainly argue it's a product of its time and it's authentic to the period, but there are going to be people on the other side saying that it's not appropriate to paint things with the same brush in 2013. I personally am on the side of historical accuracy and authenticity to the characters, but I'm sure many would bristle.

I worry about Carousel because I guess I don't have faith in the attention pan of the modern theatergoer/tourist to have faith this show would find an audience. It's not necessarily unique to Carousel, but something I feel about any show that isn't "easy" to digest. That being said, I still think that the right creative team and the right cast could put together something thrilling and I'd welcome the opportunity to see it.

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 2:20am

I understand those points, and there would be some who would be uncomfortable seeing any depiction/discussion of domestic violence, just as some on these boards have mentioned discomfort at seeing/hearing the verbal abuse/neglect that Matilda's parents bestow on her.

But then for everyone who is uncomfortable seeing that, there is someone in the audience who identifies with Louise Bigelow (or Julie) or Matilda or Natalie in Next to Normal or Elphaba and feels like their story is finally being told, and connects more strongly with those somewhat darker shows than with others because of the strength of emotional catharsis that they get when watching them that comes from feeling like the writers somehow understand them more than most people do. So it might be hard to predict what would do well and what wouldn't.

Maybe such shows would have more repeat visits from those who connect with them and fewer individual visits than some others? I guess if I knew what would be a success in advance, i'd be a wealthy person, but i don't, so i'm not. :)

[blaxx]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 3:50am

Adding to your chat, I wasn't familiar with the show and I was excited to see this.

Overall, I was shocked with the leads. Is there a leading lady more submissive than Julie? Or a bigger jerk than Billy?

I just could not understand what they wanted us to see here, what am I missing?
If she was strong enough to stand up to her boss, why is it that she's so taken by a big time loser who is unemployed and beats her up? She seems pretty and smart, and looking at the performers who have played the part in the past, none of them strike me as the kind of girl who would just stay with that good for nothing criminal.

And don't get me started with him. In the end, the only reason why I believed he was sorry was because he was dead, not because he actually thought that the violence was all that wrong.

Yes, it can all be related to time and place, but I can't see why anyone would think anything else but that both got what they deserved.

And why are people in heaven dressed as Super Mario Bros.?

I enjoyed the Carrie/Snow story a lot better.

Input, please. I'm obviously missing something.

[Skip2]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 4:55am

blaxx: you're missing nothing. It's the major problem with the show. Why does Billy always hurt the one he loves and why does Julie put up with it?

Sure there are people like that in real life, but you just want to slap Billy and shake Julie. And, no, I don't buy that sometimes you don't feel a slap at all.

And, yeah, why the Super Mario Bros. getups? And the Xmas decoration stars? And in this version, how does ghost Billy move Julie's shawl higher on her shoulders? Spooky!

[John Adams]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 11:49am

>> "I just could not understand what they wanted us to see here, what am I missing?
If she was strong enough to stand up to her boss, why is it that she's so taken by a big time loser who is unemployed and beats her up? She seems pretty and smart, and looking at the performers who have played the part in the past, none of them strike me as the kind of girl who would just stay with that good for nothing criminal.

My feeling is that this concert suffered a lot from being under-rehearsed. O'Hara talks a little bit about it in her Intermission interview. They put this whole concert together in just days. A lot of things just aren't cohesive, especially with the acting.

Billy and Julie are not typical 'musical theater' lovers. Neither has a "my lot in life is bad, but I'm plucky enough to rise above it" demeanor. Both have a lot of unscripted baggage that needs to come through in their performances so that the audience can accept Billy/Julie's relationship.

I don't see Julie as being smart or strong. She's too willing to accept that she doesn't deserve better for herself in life. She's self-defeating regarding marriage. She's convinced that she's "never gonna marry", and since she's never gonna marry, she has to be "more partickler" about a partner. She makes her own prophecy come true.

Billy and Julie have a lot in common. Neither has enough self-esteem to be able to communicate well. Carrie boldly calls out Julie as being, "a queer one" because of her extreme introversion. Julie is also a tad too willing to accept less for herself. She openly admits in If I Loved You, that Billy would eventually leave her, and that it would be her own fault. Her willingness to accept that she does not deserve better for herself is particularly evident in What's the Use of Wonderin'?.

Billy (like Julie) is equally bad at expressing his feelings, and also feels undeserving of being loved. I don't think it's a far stretch to assume that Billy's occupation has always been more "rent boy" than carousel barker ...especially to the widowed Mrs. Mullin. Although she's hired him for his sex appeal, she gets very jealous when he flirts with female carousel riders. She's also just as upset as Julie when he dies. Why would Billy be so adamant about not returning to the carousel (and Mrs. Mullin) when it would be the perfect solution to his and Julie's financial problems?

I think Julie recognizes the same faults and insecurities in Billy that she sees in herself. When Billy hits her, she understands the self-loathing and frustration that motivates it, because she also does not have the ability to communicate "love" without feeling embarrassed, unworthy or ashamed. This comes out in her monologue to Billy after he dies.

I think Julie and Billy are pretty complex characters that require more work than the few days of rehearsal allowed for. You can't just walk into those roles armed with only memorization of lines and music.

Casting Gunn as Billy is a fine choice vocally, but as a non-actor, didn't really work. Because he isn't a strong enough actor to match O'Hara's skills, her Julie came off seeming more pathetic.





Updated On: 4/28/13 at 11:49 AM

[theaternut]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 12:28pm

I hope some day we do get a good Carousel again.

[noradesmond]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 2:46pm

Nice insight John Adams. These are indeed very complex, controversial characters and I can't imagine how they must have seemed in 1945. And yet the show was a success even then. A testament to the power of the score, I think. Still, it's a difficult nut to crack. The movie sure didn't and it was a deserved failure.

[blaxx]

Posted: 4/28/13 at 3:33pm

I think Julie and Billy are pretty complex characters that require more work than the few days of rehearsal allowed for. You can't just walk into those roles armed with only memorization of lines and music.

I guess so. What I saw in that concert seemed so gloomy and bleak that I couldn't understand why anyone would enjoy such a downer.

I had zero sympathy for either.