Cameron Mackintosh transphobic comments- Page 3

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 2:13pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "That does not mean that every white character should now be portrayed by a POC- or that even role in every play is suited for every trans person."

First of all, no one has said that, nor would they. Secondly, take a step back and think about what you are saying in your post. Maybe you could substitute your own minority-ness (if you have any). For example, would you ever say that every role in every play is suited for every gay person? I'm guessing no but then again you are the person in this thread who embraced an appropriated pejorative of the radical Republican right to express yourself so maybe you would.

@Sax, stunts and gimmicks are designed to sell tickets. Do you seriously think that casting a trans person is going to sell tickets? Again, like the above, I'd ask that you consider taking a step back. Do you think casting a gay person qua gay is a gimmick? For instance, was it a gimmick to cast Nathan Lane as Max because he is gay? I just ask you to think about it. 

Updated On: 8/28/21 at 02:13 PM

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 2:19pm

BWAY Baby2 said: "Trans women are trans women- and everyone should have equal access to every aspect of life. I respect the right of everyone to make choices regarding their own bodes and destinies - on every level- and I respect and honor those choices. Life is difficult enough for everyone without additional discrimination on any level. That does not mean that every white character should now be portrayed by a POC- or that even role in every play is suited for every trans person. I loved seeing gay men in Boys In The Band- and would not want to see a white woman as Celie in Color Purple. I do think the pendulum is swinging too far to the left in certain areas- and I will leave it at that."

 

You see the world as you idealize and not how it exists. You need to adjust that.

 

[JSquared2]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 2:26pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "JSquared2 said: "Bravo! Good for him."

Will you kindly fucque off?"

I love you too, dear. 

[rawrali]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 2:42pm

J Harrison Ghee (he/they according to Instagram) is about to play Velma Kelly in Chicago at the Muny this week. I’m personally looking forward to it, but I’ll be curious to see how the StL audiences respond.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 2:55pm

TheatreFan4 said: "The Distinctive Baritone said: "I mean, why use Mary Poppins as an example? In the stage version it’s a high soprano role even many cis women would have difficulty singing. What is he even trying to say? The score shouldn’t be transposed for a trans woman? What about a trans man playing Enjrolas? Vocally much easier to accomplish. I mean, where was he even going with this? Sometimes it’s better to just say nothing.
"

I mean honestly, talking about the implausibility of finding many Transwomen who can perform the role is kind of a moot point. There are certainly a fair share of Cis Men Sopranos so it stands to rights there could be a fair amount of Transwomen Sopranos. That's not even bringing into the conversation of Transwomen who when they transition can have their registers dramatically change. I think it's a bitminimizing ofthe abilities of Transwomen to write off his example of Mary Poppins to be silly."

I’m not at all minimizing the abilities of trans women. Sure, it’s possible, especially with hormones. 
 

To be clear, I think Macintosh’s comments were insensitive and stupid. But some roles are more likely to be successful with trans actors than others, especially when it comes to roles with extreme vocal ranges.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 3:07pm

@Baritone there are lots of card-carrying females with an abundance of estrogen who cannot sing Mary Poppins et al. No one would propose having Cher play the role but can you imagine us needing a thread to discuss that? No, the difference is that CM has not wrapped his head around Alexandra Billings and while we can shrug our shoulders when our geezer uncle hasn't, when someone wants to function at the highest levels, they are obliged not to educate themselves or hang it up.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 3:28pm

HogansHero I get what you are saying. I didn’t mean to detract from the larger issue. And yes, his unwillingness to even consider trans actors - and to make such a public statement about it - is damaging to trans actors and theatre in general.

[¿Macavity?]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 4:21pm

devonian.t said: "¿Macavity? said: "It just reads as cruel and out of touch. Why is CamMac trying so hard to wreck his legacy?? He's taken one heck of a dive the last few years and been painful to watch."

He was always like that- it's just these things come to light more readily nowadays."

I'm sure you're right. In hindsight my post was silly. Obviously, this is how he's always been.

 

Bye, Mr. Producer!

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 4:25pm

I’m not sure he used Mary Poppins as an example because it’s a vocally challenging role. I think he used Mary Poppins as an example because he thinks it would be especially abhorrent to cast a trans actor in a family show.

[seaweedjstubbs]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 4:32pm

People saying they’re ok with trans actors being cast in cis roles “as long as they can sing the role as written” seem to ignore all the times scores have been transposed for cis performers over the years, as recently as the Off-Broadway revival of LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS which transposed “Suddenly Seymour” for Tammy Blanchard. Stop making rules for how or why trans actors should be cast in roles.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 4:50pm

CATSNYrevival said: "I’m not sure he used Mary Poppins as an example because it’s a vocally challenging role. I think he used Mary Poppins as an example because he thinks it would be especially abhorrent to cast a trans actor in a family show."

"WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!" /s

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 5:17pm

seaweedjstubbs said: "People saying they’re ok with trans actors being cast in cis roles “as long as they can sing the role as written” seem to ignore all the times scores have been transposed for cis performers over the years, as recently as the Off-Broadway revival of LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS which transposed “Suddenly Seymour” for Tammy Blanchard. Stop making rules for how or why trans actors should be cast in roles. "


I’m not making rules. I’m making an observation about an issue that must be addressed when casting trans actors in musical theatre roles. I’ve transposed songs for actors before, including a trans actor. How about you stop making assumptions and putting words in other peoples’ mouths?

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 5:35pm

I’m kind of shocked Disney hasn’t forced their hand into making him issue an apology. Kind of appalled. Does Disney not have any meaningful involvement in Mary Poppins?

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 5:38pm

Call_me_jorge said: "I’m kind of shocked Disney hasn’t forced their hand into making him issue an apology. Kind of appalled. Does Disney not have any meaningful involvement in Mary Poppins?"

It's because Disney doesn't have a leg to stand on so instead of inflaming social media against them they're just gonna sit there and not say anything until it inevitability blows over. 

[Fosse76]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 5:46pm

Call_me_jorge said: "I’m kind of shocked Disney hasn’t forced their hand into making him issue an apology. Kind of appalled. Does Disney not have any meaningful involvement in Mary Poppins?"

Disney is pretty powerless. The only reason they have any involvement is because CM smartly understood that any stage adaptation would need the Disney music. CM owns the stage rights in full.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 5:53pm

Yeah, I don’t see Disney as having much pull here. I’m sure they have some kind of joint producing contract with him, but he’s not employed by them, and he’s a pretty powerful figure in his own spheres. I guess Disney could threaten to pull the licensing rights, but I’m not sure how feasible it is at this stage.

Not to mention - do we really EXPECT Disney to do anything about it? Disney makes a big show about being inclusive, but for them, money always speaks first. Sadly, trans issues are still comparatively fringe, to the point where Disney is not likely to lose much money from this kind of scandal. Hell, they’re still way behind the curve when it comes to gay representation - no way are they going to say that criticize someone else for saying that Mary Poppins can’t be trans, when they know that they won’t be willing to put their money where their mouth is

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 6:52pm

That’s cool about Chicago! And honestly I doubt many of them will even know it’s a man or not. Ghee is a fab performer. Can’t wait to hear how it’s received!

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 7:13pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "HogansHero I get what you are saying. I didn’t mean to detract from the larger issue. And yes, his unwillingness to even consider trans actors - and to make such a public statement about it - is damaging to trans actors and theatre in general."

I wasn't really challenging what you were saying; more of a side bar. I think some here have a way  sometimes of missing the forest for the trees. And I agree the harm is palpable. Imagine if he had said he wouldn't consider casting a [gay, jew, or some other category lacking any universal attribute]. The bottom line is, this is not the way we roll in 2021, and frankly hasn't been for a while. 

[seaweedjstubbs]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 7:31pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "seaweedjstubbs said: "People saying they’re ok with trans actors being cast in cis roles “as long as they can sing the role as written” seem to ignore all the times scores have been transposed for cis performers over the years, as recently as the Off-Broadway revival of LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS which transposed “Suddenly Seymour” for Tammy Blanchard. Stop making rules for how or why trans actors should be cast in roles. "


I’m not making rules. I’m making an observation about an issue that must be addressed when casting trans actors in musical theatre roles. I’ve transposed songs for actors before, including a trans actor. How about you stop making assumptions and putting words in other peoples’ mouths?"

Girl, I wasn’t even talking about you. Have several seats.

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/28/21 at 10:04pm

CATSNYrevival said: "I’m not sure he used Mary Poppins as an example because it’s a vocally challenging role. I think he used Mary Poppins as an example because he thinks it would be especially abhorrent to cast a trans actor in a family show."

I think you're right.

[Dolly80]

Posted: 8/29/21 at 1:04am

joevitus said: "CATSNYrevival said: "I’m not sure he used Mary Poppins as an example because it’s a vocally challenging role. I think he used Mary Poppins as an example because he thinks it would be especially abhorrent to cast a trans actor in a family show."

I think you're right."

I don’t think that’s correct at all actually. I think it’s more that it’s an iconic character, and they have to honour P L Travers creation/ jump through lots of hoops with the Estate when casting the role to get their approval.
He is still an enormous idiot for saying these comments- and so publicly. The fact he’s destroying the legendary productions that have made him so much money shows how terribly out of touch he is, this is the cherry on the cake. 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 8/29/21 at 2:35am

Dolly80 said: "I don’t think that’s correct at all actually. I think it’s more that it’s an iconic character, and they have to honour P L Travers creation/ jump through lots of hoops with the Estate when casting the role to get their approval.
He is still an enormous idiot for saying these comments- and so publicly. The fact he’s destroying the legendary productions that have made him so much money shows how terribly out of touch he is, this is the cherry on the cake."

I somehow doubt they're getting rights over who is cast in the role in a way that would allow them to step in over a Trans actress.

[Sunny11]

Posted: 8/29/21 at 9:16am

Gender bent casting isn’t novel. A women was cast as the male rafiki in the lion king over 20 years ago, for example.

More representation of Female to Male transgenders might help quell current day anti trans sentiments though. Public discourse revolves about feminist arguments of men harming or stealing opportunities from women if transwomen have access to women’s bathrooms or sports etc. ( note this isn’t my opinion just my observation).

Casting a cis- women to sing counter- tenor/ high scores would be a good idea.

[fosterfan2]

Posted: 8/29/21 at 9:50am

Sunny11 said: "
Gender bent casting isn’t novel. A women was cast as the male rafiki in the lion king over 20 years ago, for example.

More representation of Female to Male transgenders might help quell current day anti trans sentiments though. Public discourse revolves about feminist arguments of men harming or stealing opportunities from women if transwomen have access to women’s bathrooms or sports etc. ( note this isn’t my opinion just my observation).

Casting a cis- women to sing counter- tenor/ high scores would be a good idea."

Women are usually cast as Rafiki,if I am correct. The post-shutdown Rafiki is a woman, and so was the one I saw in the national tour several years ago.

[Sunny11]

Posted: 8/29/21 at 9:59am

Yes, but in the original animated film Rafiki is male. Casting  a women for the stage adaptation was a non traditional casting choice.

Updated On: 8/29/21 at 09:59 AM