#51
Posted: 5/5/05 at 3:44pm
Not really a man?? What does that mean?
Can a man singer be a belter? — Page 3
#52
Posted: 5/5/05 at 6:05pm
The answer is unequivocally yes.
What proof do I have? In high school I had to perform a 5-song set to get my part in "HMS Pinafore." You wanna know what songs I did?
-Hello, Young Lovers
-Somewhere
-People (from Funny Girl. It was one of the requisite songs we had to learn.)
-Cheek to Cheek
-Something About The Way You Look Tonight
I had to perform them in succession. I got the part. Now YOU tell me if guys can't belt.
What proof do I have? In high school I had to perform a 5-song set to get my part in "HMS Pinafore." You wanna know what songs I did?
-Hello, Young Lovers
-Somewhere
-People (from Funny Girl. It was one of the requisite songs we had to learn.)
-Cheek to Cheek
-Something About The Way You Look Tonight
I had to perform them in succession. I got the part. Now YOU tell me if guys can't belt.
Updated On: 5/5/05 at 06:05 PM
#53
Posted: 5/5/05 at 6:10pm
oh hell yeah guys can belt. my college voice teacher got me to belt a high A flat-B in full chest voice and I used proper technique. 
My upper tenor range is more belty, chest voice. I can do the lyric sound up there, but it sounds so unsupported in my opinion.
My upper tenor range is more belty, chest voice. I can do the lyric sound up there, but it sounds so unsupported in my opinion.
#54
Posted: 5/5/05 at 6:22pm
Yeah, I've said this on the boards numerous times. Men can definitely belt.
I'm a baritone/countertenor, so I can sing in my normal chest voice and have a regular baritone range, but then I can use head voice (not falsetto) and "belt" with a mezzo-soprano sound(up to a G). I can also use this technique to have a soprano sound as well.
After much discussion and analysis, a vocal coach told me that I was using head voice and not falsetto. I never knew how used to sing high like that; I just did it and thought I was weird! LOL... So, men can most definitely belt. I always thought belting just referred to sustaining notes in full chest voice, man or woman.
I'm a baritone/countertenor, so I can sing in my normal chest voice and have a regular baritone range, but then I can use head voice (not falsetto) and "belt" with a mezzo-soprano sound(up to a G). I can also use this technique to have a soprano sound as well.
After much discussion and analysis, a vocal coach told me that I was using head voice and not falsetto. I never knew how used to sing high like that; I just did it and thought I was weird! LOL... So, men can most definitely belt. I always thought belting just referred to sustaining notes in full chest voice, man or woman.
#55
Posted: 5/5/05 at 8:17pm
Don't listen to Michael Ball. That is unless you want to sing like you've got a vibrator shoved down your throat.
Eeeeeeyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaannnnnddddd aaaaaaaiiiiiiiiyyyyyyaaaaaammmmmmmm teeeeeeeelllllliiiiiinnngg yyyyooooooouuuuuuuwwwaaaahh...
#56
Posted: 5/5/05 at 8:19pm
Bjivie2 -- thanks for THAT mental image. now I'm gonna have nightmares tonight, and it'll be all your fault!
"Sweet summer evenings, hot wine and bread /
Sharing your supper, sharing your bed /
Simple joys have a simple voice:
It says why not go ahead?"
#57
Posted: 5/5/05 at 8:57pm
Great discussion! How about people provide some examples of the different styles/techniques/sounds from songs we all know and love. That will give us something to listen to and we can hear the different products of the techniques we're discussing talking about.
Men have the two ranges of chest and head. The break is the 'switch' in the middle. It's good to get rid of the break as it gives you a continuous range. Men and women can belt. It's characterised by singing notes at the extreme high end of your chest voice or the bottom of your head voice with power and volume. I think that it really means very different things for different people.
In my understanding, falsetto is more of a sound quality than a range, and denotes a particular sound quality that a singer can impart to a nnote, rather than a range itself.
Here are my examples:
Falsetto: Colm Wilkinson at the beginning of 'Bring Him Home' from Les Miserables - the breathy quality gives this away as a true falsetto
Head: Not sure about this one. Much of what Mary Sunshine sings as a woman in Chicago is head voice. Also perhaps some of what Billy Porter ad-libs at the end of 'Beauty School Dropout' in the Grease Broadway recording. The Billy Porter stuff sounds like a bit of belt too....
Belt: Norbert Leo Butz on the line "Somehow I'm feeling, it's UP THAT I FELL." from 'As Long As You're Mine' in Wicked. Also, the last note Gavin Creel sings in 'Going Down' in the new Hair recording.
Men have the two ranges of chest and head. The break is the 'switch' in the middle. It's good to get rid of the break as it gives you a continuous range. Men and women can belt. It's characterised by singing notes at the extreme high end of your chest voice or the bottom of your head voice with power and volume. I think that it really means very different things for different people.
In my understanding, falsetto is more of a sound quality than a range, and denotes a particular sound quality that a singer can impart to a nnote, rather than a range itself.
Here are my examples:
Falsetto: Colm Wilkinson at the beginning of 'Bring Him Home' from Les Miserables - the breathy quality gives this away as a true falsetto
Head: Not sure about this one. Much of what Mary Sunshine sings as a woman in Chicago is head voice. Also perhaps some of what Billy Porter ad-libs at the end of 'Beauty School Dropout' in the Grease Broadway recording. The Billy Porter stuff sounds like a bit of belt too....
Belt: Norbert Leo Butz on the line "Somehow I'm feeling, it's UP THAT I FELL." from 'As Long As You're Mine' in Wicked. Also, the last note Gavin Creel sings in 'Going Down' in the new Hair recording.
"Jane, I've been dealt a blow - I've been dealt a blow, Jane."
#58
Posted: 5/5/05 at 11:50pm
I just happen to be listening to Urinetown, I'd say Hunter Foster's last note in Run, Freedom, Run is an example of him belting. And actually, when he does that sort of gospel like repetition of "I said freedom", his last freedom where he does a sort of gospel run, he slides into his falsetto at the top of that note.
#61
Posted: 5/6/05 at 12:13am
For those of you who think men can't belt. You tell'em Matthew!
Here's proof that men can belt
Here's proof that men can belt
"If it walks like a Parks, if it wobbles like a Parks, then it's definitely fat and nobody loves it." --MA
#62
Posted: 5/6/05 at 12:29am
Not to nitpick but that Matthew guy sounds like he's mixing.
#63
Posted: 5/6/05 at 2:03pm
Eh...I would say no. "Belting" is slang for when women sing in their chest voice, IMHO.
Frankly, the ability to belt is overrated, and I can say that because it's my bread and butter. People should sing what their voice is made to sing. For example, if I hear one more beautiful baritone straining to sing like a tenor, I'm going to feed his chords to my cat(particularly if he's trying to sing the riffs at the end of "Lost in the Wilderness").
And in defense of Kristin Chenoweth (her appearance on Letterman notwithstanding), I would argue with you about the so-called big break in her voice. She's really well-trained and her instrument is pretty seamless. I think the mark of a good singer is that he or she can make stylistic choices about how to sing a particular note, whether or not it's on her break. I'll bet she could mix to a high C if she wanted to, but nobody sounds the same singing opera as they do singing "Popular."
Frankly, the ability to belt is overrated, and I can say that because it's my bread and butter. People should sing what their voice is made to sing. For example, if I hear one more beautiful baritone straining to sing like a tenor, I'm going to feed his chords to my cat(particularly if he's trying to sing the riffs at the end of "Lost in the Wilderness").
And in defense of Kristin Chenoweth (her appearance on Letterman notwithstanding), I would argue with you about the so-called big break in her voice. She's really well-trained and her instrument is pretty seamless. I think the mark of a good singer is that he or she can make stylistic choices about how to sing a particular note, whether or not it's on her break. I'll bet she could mix to a high C if she wanted to, but nobody sounds the same singing opera as they do singing "Popular."
#64
Posted: 5/6/05 at 9:07pm
Sound-wise, belting is just high notes sung in your chest voice, with power. The debate should be over how singers create that sound and whether or not it's healthy.
Singers need to be able to perform all kinds of roles. A singer should have as many sounds at their disposal as they can muster. It's good to be able to sing in a 'legit' or classical theatre style. It's good to be able to belt. If you can produce a wider range of sounds of high quality, you're going to be more appealling to more directors.
Amen on the "Lost In The Wilderness" comment above. That song is a bitch.
Singers need to be able to perform all kinds of roles. A singer should have as many sounds at their disposal as they can muster. It's good to be able to sing in a 'legit' or classical theatre style. It's good to be able to belt. If you can produce a wider range of sounds of high quality, you're going to be more appealling to more directors.
Amen on the "Lost In The Wilderness" comment above. That song is a bitch.
"Jane, I've been dealt a blow - I've been dealt a blow, Jane."
#65
Posted: 5/6/05 at 11:54pm
"I was thinking...this must be a skinny black woman."
Sorry...I just couldn't resist. I've had it saved to my desktop ever since I first watched it. My brother and I haven't laughed that hard since...well, it's been a while.
Sorry...I just couldn't resist. I've had it saved to my desktop ever since I first watched it. My brother and I haven't laughed that hard since...well, it's been a while.
"If it walks like a Parks, if it wobbles like a Parks, then it's definitely fat and nobody loves it." --MA
#66
Posted: 5/7/05 at 3:08am
I have no idea how you define belt ...
But when I think of women belting: take On My Own from Les Misérables; I saw the tour last November with Melissa Lyons as Eponine. The end of the song "a world that's full of hapinness that I have never known" - this is what I would call "belting" the note. She held the note long, full, clear, with no vibratto and it was sung with a fullness and power that filled the entire theater with echoes of her voice. That note was a C, a typically I think of woman being able to belt the best around B, C, or D ...
I'd think that if you've heard any musical theater at all, you will have heard guys produce the same type of sound (Miss Saigon has alot, Fiyero in Wicked, Les Mis, Evita). Girls must break into there head voice at a much lower point, but they have the advantage of being able to belt low (say at an A), while I have not heard a male produce a "belt" sound that low before. But then men much more rarely use there head voice, and can quite easy belt out a high A or B.
Listen to "Why God Why?" from Miss Saigon, or "Anthem" from Chess, and then tell me men cannot belt
But when I think of women belting: take On My Own from Les Misérables; I saw the tour last November with Melissa Lyons as Eponine. The end of the song "a world that's full of hapinness that I have never known" - this is what I would call "belting" the note. She held the note long, full, clear, with no vibratto and it was sung with a fullness and power that filled the entire theater with echoes of her voice. That note was a C, a typically I think of woman being able to belt the best around B, C, or D ...
I'd think that if you've heard any musical theater at all, you will have heard guys produce the same type of sound (Miss Saigon has alot, Fiyero in Wicked, Les Mis, Evita). Girls must break into there head voice at a much lower point, but they have the advantage of being able to belt low (say at an A), while I have not heard a male produce a "belt" sound that low before. But then men much more rarely use there head voice, and can quite easy belt out a high A or B.
Listen to "Why God Why?" from Miss Saigon, or "Anthem" from Chess, and then tell me men cannot belt
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde.
#67
Posted: 5/7/05 at 2:01pm
If you listen to recordings of Michael Ball throughout the years, it's very evident that his technique has changed.
If you compare the way he was singing during the mid 90's to the way he was singing a few years ago, it's very different.
He also seems to use more vibrato on a recording than he does in live performances.
That being said, he does have a beautiful voice and great stage presence.
He always sounds amazing live. The richness of his voice really does not come across on a recording. I've found this to be common with theatre performers.
If you compare the way he was singing during the mid 90's to the way he was singing a few years ago, it's very different.
He also seems to use more vibrato on a recording than he does in live performances.
That being said, he does have a beautiful voice and great stage presence.
He always sounds amazing live. The richness of his voice really does not come across on a recording. I've found this to be common with theatre performers.
#68
Posted: 5/7/05 at 5:53pm
i'm still confused with the whole head voice and falsetto being different... anyone care to explain?
#69
Posted: 5/18/05 at 3:41pm
I kind of HATE when people categorize the voice as head, middle, and chest because all they do is take over for what the RESONATORS are called. There are three resonators: nasal, throat, and diapraphm(?).
#71
Posted: 5/19/05 at 3:50am
Folks, this is the funniest thread I have read in a while.
Of course men can belt. Just listen to Sam Harris, then you have a male version of Patti LaBelle!
Of course men can belt. Just listen to Sam Harris, then you have a male version of Patti LaBelle!
#72
Posted: 5/19/05 at 3:24pm
This is a fascinating discussion, and after reading all of the posts, I've come to the same conclusion that I've believed to be true all along..Everyone is different..and every human voice is different. Yes many are similar..but none are exactly alike. Whether the act of singing high in ones chest voice(male or female) is healthy or not, is irrelevant. You either can do it or you can't. You can go to all the teachers you want, butin the end, some people just naturally are able to do it, because that's their natural sound.One of the reasons I've recently lost interest in a lot of theatre singing is that so many singers are cookie cutter versions of other singers, due to the fact that they have gone to teachers and coaches in order to "sound like Liz Callaway" or "barbara Cook" or "Streisand." It's a real shame that people just don't want to sound like themselves...or maybe they're afraid to, because there own natural sound just isn't interesting enough..OK I've totally gone on a tangent..Yes men belt in the same way that women do. Just in a "man's register"..it's why songs are in, or can be put, into different keys. A Man can sing "Defying Gravity" in a key that suits him the best, and it can be as thrilling as a woman doing it. Anyone singing at the top of their range, well, can be thrilling. If that's what you mean by belting..
www.davidgurland.com
www.davidgurland.com
#73
Posted: 5/19/05 at 9:30pm
men have three parts of their voice. chest-head-falsetto.
most "belting" comes at the end of their chest voice into their head... I feel like head voice is what sounds most like belting...for me, those notes are high A-C.
If that makes sense to any other men/bari-tenors out there.
:)
most "belting" comes at the end of their chest voice into their head... I feel like head voice is what sounds most like belting...for me, those notes are high A-C.
If that makes sense to any other men/bari-tenors out there.
:)
#74
Posted: 5/20/05 at 6:31pm
I would gladly post my thoughts and comments here, as I went to a Conservatory of Music and have studied voice since I was 8, so I know what I'm talking about - however, there are so many defensive people on here that I'd be afraid of being attacked. LOL - "Do men belt" is a long-running debate, and will continue to be one until the world blows up.
There is a voice teacher in New York named Jeannette Lovetri, who has a company called The Voice Workshop. For the last 3 summers, she has been coming to my alma mater, Shenandoah University, and conducting a Music Theatre Voice pedagogy program (for college/graduate credit, if you're interested), and it's the only progam of its kind in the entire nation (take that, Cincinatti Conservatory!) Lovetri is known for her approach to singing called "Somatic Voicework." It is highly fascinating, and if you are truly interested, you should visit www.su.edu and find out more information, or better yet, take the summer (or next year) and enroll in the program. I did it 2 years ago, and it was the most beneficial summer of my life, and answered many questions, including the mystery "Do men belt?" I now know the answer, and feel powerful enough to say . . . .
. . . Find out for yourself! Email me if you'd like more information on this fascinating program, and to talk voice.
There is a voice teacher in New York named Jeannette Lovetri, who has a company called The Voice Workshop. For the last 3 summers, she has been coming to my alma mater, Shenandoah University, and conducting a Music Theatre Voice pedagogy program (for college/graduate credit, if you're interested), and it's the only progam of its kind in the entire nation (take that, Cincinatti Conservatory!) Lovetri is known for her approach to singing called "Somatic Voicework." It is highly fascinating, and if you are truly interested, you should visit www.su.edu and find out more information, or better yet, take the summer (or next year) and enroll in the program. I did it 2 years ago, and it was the most beneficial summer of my life, and answered many questions, including the mystery "Do men belt?" I now know the answer, and feel powerful enough to say . . . .
. . . Find out for yourself! Email me if you'd like more information on this fascinating program, and to talk voice.
#75
Posted: 5/20/05 at 8:30pm
Betcher' bottem dollar they can!! Listen to Larry Kert in West Side Story. He'll teach you a thing or two about belting.
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