Colorado Supreme Court upholds ban of smoking onstage

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 1:17pm

I really hope they take this farther. The reasoning given by our Attorney General in the LA Times seems to be a bit absurd. Here are links to our local paper and the times aricles. Check out the comments.

Also, Whoopie Goldberg blasted our Supreme Court about this on The View this morning. She said she loves Colorado but does not agree with this decision.

http://www.denverpost.com/theater/ci_13997881

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2009/12/to-smoke-or-not-to-smoke-that-is-the-question.html

Your thoughts?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 1:21pm

I remember a similar situation in Chicago, and it was over fake cigarettes in Jersey Boys, I think. I don't remember hearing how it was resolved.

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 1:41pm

I think these people are a bunch of blithering idiots and I really hope this issue is taken all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary. Artistic expression and free speech have to take priority.

from the article:

"... lawmakers intended the band to extend to artistic performances, said former state Rep. Mark Larson, who carried a similar bill in 2005 and supported it in 2006, the year it passed. A theater exemption was briefly amended into the bill but taken out of later versions, Larson said. "Acting is acting," Larson said. "Why not having a fake cigarette? What . . . difference does it make? Come on."

Former state Rep? Obviously Mr. Larson must have gone into the business of writing and staging theatrical productions, since he is apparently such an expert on the topic.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 1:51pm

I remember a similar situation in Chicago, and it was over fake cigarettes in Jersey Boys, I think. I don't remember hearing how it was resolved.

It wasn't. They substitute a flask for the joint in "Oh, What a Night," and in all the scenes with cigarettes, the cigs aren't lit.

[Annas_Priest]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 2:14pm

Good, I am allergic to smoke, and I HATE sitting close to the stage and smelling it at performances. GOODGOODGOOD. And its not a free speech issue.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 2:28pm

I have only smelled smoke on occasion at very small theaters. My thought is that if you don't like the smoke, research the show before you buy a ticket. If you find that a character smokes, don't go. And if you get there and find that a character smokes and you don't like it. Leave. It's not like they are lighting a cigarette and blowing the smoke in your face. Just like one comment said, so do we now have Sherlock Holmes suck on a lollipop instead? people see someone light up onstage and immediately get offended. Sometimes i think they are so against it that they imagine they smell the smoke. This has gotten really out of hand.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 2:29pm

I'm not, but FWIW my roommate is highly allergic to smoke, but we rushed Jersey Boys MANY times and she was never affected by the clove cigs they used.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 2:32pm

Well I have noticed at most shows, the smoke rises above the stage and clears before it has a chance to reach the audience.

[singtopher]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 2:36pm

Let me play devil's advocate for the sake of argument:

I hate the smell of cigarette smoke and there is no arguing against the dangers of second hand smoke. But, there is a big difference between a couple cigarettes being lit up in a 2,000 seat theatre and a cast of 9 chain smoking through a 2 hour play in a 100 seat house. Where do we draw the line? The former isn't going to make a difference, but the later can cause short term health issues to anyone in the theatre. Does artistic voice and expression really take priority over public health? Hasn't the US Supreme Court passed down decisions basically saying, "The Government can control "free speech" when the safety of others is at risk."?

Also, I understand the purpose of the smoke as a visual effect, but in what ways would a play be adversely affected by someone smoking an un-lit cigarette. We could argue until we are blue that it's Theatre and we fake most everything on-stage so why not smoking.

For the record, I do not support this decision, but it does raise questions for me.

ETA: Are clove/herbal cigarettes any better than regular cigarettes? What difference does it make for the audience?

Updated On: 12/18/09 at 02:36 PM

[Pgenre]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 2:45pm

^ No offense, but weak arguments like that make me DESPERATELY need a cigarette.

In the 20s,30s,40s,50s, and 60s, many people smoked. Period. Some still do. Get over it.

P

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 2:54pm

I smoke. However, I don't like to be standing in the middle of a group of people smoking. I smoke at home but have a fan to draw it out of my apartment. I also do not smoke around people who do not smoke if it bothers them. That includes in my own home if they are visiting. Just putting that out there.

I feel the difference between a lit cigarette and one that is not lit is visual and a cigarette that is not lit takes away from the reality. I just saw a play set in England in the 70's. Someone "lit" another person's cigarette but didn't really light it. The person "smoked" this unlit cigarette for most of the scene and it was actually a bit distracting. It actually reminded me of when I was a kid and we pretended to smoke with pencils.

One comment in the LA Times mentioned actors being role models. I suspect she was talking about being role models for kids. Hmm...isn't that where parents come in? My whole family smoked. My mother, even back then, told me that smoking was not good for me. She did her part to educate me. My starting to smoke was my own decision.

This is not just a health thing. This has become a thing about people who just don't like something and will do everything in their power to stop it. Studies could come out proving there is no danger in attending a performance where a character smokes and they would still find a way to prove the study wrong.

Updated On: 12/18/09 at 02:54 PM

[singtopher]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 2:56pm

None taken, P.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 3:00pm

Singtopher...I actually think most clove cigarettes are worse for a smoker than regular cigarettes. Someone correct me if I am wrong but that's what I have read. I think I read somewhere where there is a mixture used onstage that doesn't use cloves.

[WishingOnlyWounds2]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 3:26pm

Well, if Billy Elliot stops in Denver, that should be interesting...

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 4:29pm

Hopefully by then this will be overturned. Billy Elliot probably won't be here until 2011. Although, our December 2010 production hasn't been announced yet.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 4:32pm

Annas_Preist, you shouldn't be going to any of these plays to begin with, as they conflict with your values. Listen to the voices in your head.

ETA - Is there a lot of smoking in Billy Elliot? We're getting a sit down of it here.

Updated On: 12/18/09 at 04:32 PM

[sweetTb'way]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 4:54pm

Billy Elliot actually has to deal with this dilemma in Chicago somehow. Chicago doesn't allow smoking in stage productions. I think the strong ban (fire laws) might have to do with the fires, way back when, that devastated the city. And BE uses herbal cigarettes, not cloves.

[WishingOnlyWounds2]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 5:52pm

Are your sure Billy Elliot uses herbals because all three times I saw the show it smelt real, I'm very sensitive to the smell and luckily was able to handle it at Billy but I'm pretty sure they were real. I'm seeing it from the first row in a week, so I'll report back.

And yes, Phyllis, real or not Billy Elliot has quite a bit of smoking.

[noplain]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 6:02pm

In my city you're not allowed to smoke fake cigarettes (so herbal / clove) on stage without a special exemption which must be posted on huge signs at all entrances to the theatre; something to the effect of "This production contains cigarette smoking. All actors use herbal cigarettes. An exemption has been granted from the No Smoking Inside Act of 2006." However, if they're smoking a joint - and I assume they just use the exact same fake herbal stuff - you don't need any exemption or signs. It's very odd.

[singtopher]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 6:17pm

What is the advantage of using fake cigarettes for the audience as opposed to Camel lights? Are there less toxins in the smoke?

[MusicSnob1]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 6:25pm

"feel the difference between a lit cigarette and one that is not lit is visual and a cigarette that is not lit takes away from the reality."

Who cares? If ONE unlit cig is going to take you out of the show's "reality", then don't go to the freaking show.

It's safer to both the theatre and public audience to stray from smoking...whether it be tobacco, herbal, or clove. They are working every day towards developing realistic stage cigs (which do not pose health risks or safety problems).

A cig will not determine the outcome of a production or positively/negatively affect one's character (and action). And your justification all makes sense once you chose to reveal that YOU are a smoker. Nothing against you but this argument changes when that comes into the deal.

[lull89]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 7:11pm

Singtopher- I believe the difference is mostly that the herbal/clove cigarettes don't have any nicotine, so the stage cigarettes are non-habit forming. They're still not good for you, I believe inhaling any sort of smoke exposes your lungs to all sorts of carcinogens and other nasty things, but at least you won't be craving more at the end of the show.

I'm not sure an audience member could feel the nicotine's effects from breathing in the excess smoke from a stage cigarette, so I believe the alternative cigs are used mostly for the sake of the actors.

[wendilin622]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 7:18pm

I think this is absurd. A producer or director should use their own discretion when it comes to when its appropriate to smoke on stage. Smoking for the sake of smoking is not going to help ticket sales at all. Obviously, if there is a cast of 9 chain smoking the entire show, people are not going to want to go see/sit through that. However, sometimes it is necessary to the plot/story line. Hair, RENT, etc.

I don't smoke and I understand smoking is an issue and nobody wants to smell it or be around it.... however, people need to lighten up. I don't enjoy the smell when I'm standing WITH someone who is smoking but I've NEVER been bothered by it from a stage performance.


Edit: From what I heard... I don't know how true this is...but one clove cigarette is equivalent to 4 actual cigarettes. It is non addictive though.
Updated On: 12/18/09 at 07:18 PM

[MusicSnob1]

Posted: 12/18/09 at 7:44pm

Even when necessary, as you say, it should be herbal. Always.

[sweetTb'way]

Posted: 12/19/09 at 12:00am

Yes, I"m 100% positive they're herbal cigarettes used in Billy Elliot.