Complete CAROUSEL cast recording on its way

[Fan123]

Posted: 7/19/24 at 4:12am

From Chandos, the company that brought us the complete OKLAHOMA recording last year:

https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/CHSA%205342

To be released in September this year.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/19/24 at 7:51am

Weird to cast Julian Ovendon as Enoch and not as Billy (Nathaniel Hackman is Billy, who strikes me as more of a Jigger), but hey I’m not John Wilson!

Updated On: 7/19/24 at 07:51 AM

[joevitus]

Posted: 7/19/24 at 9:31am

Please don't let it be awful like the Oklahoma! recording. What a waste! (Although the orchestra was lovely.)

[EvanstonDad]

Posted: 7/19/24 at 9:45am

Looking forward to giving this a listen, though I doubt it will surpass the 1993 London cast recording for me, which has a special place in my heart. 

Also, I didn't think the Oklahoma! recording was awful. It suffers the fate of most studio cast recordings in that it sounds more lifeless than actual cast recordings, but it's great to have the complete score.

[joevitus]

Posted: 7/19/24 at 10:55am

EvanstonDad said: "Looking forward to giving this a listen, though I doubt it will surpass the 1993 London cast recording for me, which has a special place in my heart.

Also, I didn't think the Oklahoma! recording was awful. It suffers the fate of most studio cast recordings in that it sounds more lifeless than actual cast recordings, but it's great to have the complete score."

 

For me it's the 1994 Broadway cast, though I love the complete ballet given on the London. Are the rights to the cast albums released by Angel in some sort of rights limbo? 

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 7/19/24 at 12:02pm

Two tracks are out, Entr'acte and You'll Never Walk Alone

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n-GgWmrixbc3-pYrIobKqI9esmIwx8S9E

[joevitus]

Posted: 7/19/24 at 3:38pm

Interesting they went with the revised "hold your head up high" rather than the original "keep your chin up high" for "You'll Never Walk Alone."

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 7/19/24 at 4:14pm

Why was it revised? It’s not even that different.

[MichelleCraig]

Posted: 7/19/24 at 10:47pm

I really enjoyed the John Wilson recording of OKLAHOMA! and the two tracks I’ve heard from the upcoming CAROUSEL release are really good. 
 

I don’t think we’ve had a truly great recording of CAROUSEL ever. There have been parts of the London revival and subsequent transfer with Audra that were captured perfectly on their recordings. What I like about what John Wilson does is that he records the entire score, exactly as it was originally performed. Yes, the singers are all different than in previous recordings, but I feel this new recording will be important in much the same  way as the John McGlinn complete recording of SHOW BOAT was when it was done, I believe, in the late 80s or early 90s.

I also love the way John Wilson’s recordings utilize the spatial recording feature for those who have a way to enjoy it.

Thanks, EricMontreal, for providing me with the correct person (John McGlinn) responsible for the complete SHOW BOAT recording. Correction made.

 

 

Updated On: 7/20/24 at 10:47 PM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 7/19/24 at 11:22pm

Michelle Craig--I agree (although I should point out that Show Boat was done by John McGlinn who really originated these historically complete recordings with his Show Boat, and did a number of others before his death, of varying quality, but they are always welcome from me.  I just wish the plan to do Kern's other Hammerstein shows--Music in the Air and Very Warm for May could have happened--though he did do great recordings of some songs from them, like the original All the Things You Are.

I personally loved the Oklahoma!  Yes, it suffered from usual problems with studio casts, and it's not necessarily going to be the recording I play the most, but to hear the entire score (yes, I even appreciate the scene change music) really gives you a sense of what monumental scores these are. Some others I know complained that Oklahoma! sounded a bit distant--because Wilson used the old recording style some maybe aren't used to, to try to recreate the original sound.  But that's a plus for me.

Carousel, furthermore, has NEVER been recorded with its wonderful original Don Walker orchestrations (well aside from the truncated, poor sounding, 1945 original cast album)  They hadn't been available for a long while (there's a 1960s recording with Jerry Orbach as Jigger that has Walker orchestrations, but uses the far less exciting touring orchestrations he made, which were all that was available for a long time.)  I don't believe the original ballet has been recorded before either (the RNT London recording had a slightly different ballet, changed to fit Kenneth MacMillan's new choreography.)  Listening to the samples of the full recording already has me excited--just so much we haven't gotten on CD before. The bits of performances sound great, even solid in the acting (a big problem with studio casts) except maybe for Nettie, but she's often played by not the best actress...

And judging by the sample track, those original orchestrations sound thrilling--has the entr'acte even been recorded before?  And that intro to Walk Alone (which is fuzzy on the original cast album from 1945) has never been bettered.

This will mean, furthermore, that we have note complete recordings of Oklahoma, Carousel, Allegro, South Pacific and King and I (the last two on the JAY label--and mixed bags but great to have complete) which makes a show queen like me VERY excited.  We'll always have the other cast albums to go to (I love the 1994 Broadway recording of the RNT production though I wish it had had Patrick Wilson as Billy, who I saw on tour in it when I was 14.)

Also I'm surprised anyone thinks Julian Ovenden, and I'm a huge fan, would make a good Billy, especially at this stage of his life, and career.  Vocally, his voice has absolutely no sense of the rough trade aspects inate to the character.

Updated On: 7/20/24 at 11:22 PM

[Musicaldudepeter]

Posted: 7/20/24 at 9:16am

I agree, I think Ovendon is perfect for Enoch, and Hackmann will be a ferocious Billy - looking forward to hearing his tracks.

John Wilson has also recorded a note-complete My Fair Lady which will be coming after Carousel. I wonder is he going to do any further shows? I would have loved him to do the big 5 Rodgers and Hammerstein, particularly The Sound of Music, as we don't have a note-complete take-down of this. I would love a complete South Pacific and King and I, even though we have those on JAY. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/20/24 at 9:58am

Musicaldudepeter said: "John Wilson has also recorded a note-complete My Fair Lady which will be coming after Carousel."

Oohh -- do we know who's singing on that album? Google is failing me.

[Musicaldudepeter]

Posted: 7/20/24 at 12:11pm

No idea, but most of the singers from the Oklahoma! and Carousel are from the Wilson 'stable' used for the Proms concerts and tours he's done in the past - Boggess, Hackmann, Ovendon, Seadon-Young, etc. I'm wondering who he'll get for Eliza, Higgins and Doolittle. My hunch is that Ovendon will sing Freddy, as he did in concert for Wilson. Eliza -- maybe Mikaela Bennett (the Julie from the Carousel discs) or will he want to cast an English actress - possibly Scarlett Strallen as she has done work for Wilson in the past... 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/20/24 at 12:19pm

Ovendon would also be a fine Higgins especially if Wilson wants him to "sing" it a bit more than Harrison.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 7/20/24 at 6:04pm

Musicaldudepeter said: "I agree, I think Ovendon is perfect for Enoch, and Hackmann will be a ferocious Billy - looking forward to hearing his tracks.

John Wilson has also recorded a note-complete My Fair Lady which will be coming after Carousel. I wonder is he going to do any further shows? I would have loved him to do the big 5 Rodgers and Hammerstein, particularly The Sound of Music, as we don't have a note-complete take-down of this. I would love a complete South Pacific and King and I, even though we have those on JAY."

Right, I heard that the My Fair Lady is already recorded, as you mention, though my source refuses to mention the cast...

I agree The Sound of Music could use it.  I'm less fussed with SP and King and I as we have the JAY recordings which range from adequate to occasionally very good, but I also wouldn't say no.  (I know JAY has a note complete My Fair Lady as well but I'm FAR less enthused about that recording than their R&H, or some other complete recordings they've done like Cabaret and Sweet Charity.) 

I am curious if sales are good enough to make this an annual release for Chandos/Wilson.  It seems clear that they're doing the heavy hitter recognizable titles and songwriters, and also very much from the Golden Age shows that stylistically came more from operetta than musical comedy, so I suspect any future shows chosen would fit that template.  (If that last statement makes any sense at all lol)

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/20/24 at 6:58pm

The sales/streams are probably better than Chandos' classical & opera recordings, yet still pretty awful in the grand scheme of things. Note-complete recordings really only appeal to diehards and academics, which is a tiny group. I'm surprised CONCORD didn't insist this be on one of their own labels, but even they may see no earnings potential.

Step one of improving sales/streams is, obviously, hiring the highest level of musical theatre & crossover talent. Had they cast Oklahoma with (for example) people like Rachel Zegler, Aaron Tveit, Helene Yorke, Patti LuPone, and Josh Henry, the streams and sales might be higher and the Grammy chances might be higher. But it's tough to get first choices for a project like this, especially if they want the orchestra and vocalists recording together.

When up against the various Broadway and West End cast albums that have been released between Sept 2023 and Sept 2024, will Oklahoma even be nominated for the Grammy? There's already another R&H album (the 80th Anniversary London concert recording), three Sondheims (Here We Are, Merrily, Sondheim's Old Friends), plus major pop music industry names (Hell's Kitchen/Keys, Illinoise/Stevens, The Notebook/Michaelson, The Outsiders/Jamestown Revival, Stereophonic/Butler). 

[joevitus]

Posted: 7/20/24 at 10:10pm

CATSNYrevival said: "Why was it revised? It’s not even that different."

Don't know the answer. First I'm aware of the change is the film. Admittedly "hold your head up high" is easier on the voice, and sounds prettier, than "keep your chin up high" (plus you get a bit more alliteration), so it might have been about making it more comfortable to sing, but I don't know that was the reason.

Updated On: 7/20/24 at 10:10 PM

[joevitus]

Posted: 7/20/24 at 10:11pm

MichelleCraig said: "
I don’t think we’ve had a truly great recording of CAROUSEL ever. "

I think both the OBC, despite being truncated for 78 discs, and the 1994 Broadway are indisputably great. 

[darquegk]

Posted: 7/20/24 at 11:06pm

1994 Broadway is impeccable: I love the way it mingles the show’s operetta elements with rougher and more unconventional musical theatre voices.

”Blow High, Blow Low” with the additional timpani in the opening makes the song feel naked if you hear it without them. It’s the greatest pirate song ever written, despite not being about pirates.

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 7/20/24 at 11:07pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Weird to cast Julian Ovendon as Enoch and not as Billy (Nathaniel Hackman is Billy, who strikes me as more of a Jigger), but hey I’m not John Wilson!"

I thought Billy was a baritone role, and Ovendon is definitely a tenor.  Or was it originally written for a tenor?

Updated On: 7/20/24 at 11:07 PM

[Musicaldudepeter]

Posted: 7/21/24 at 5:36am

Billy is a high baritone role, though it has been sung by tenors.

Just confirming my suspicions after some research - Scarlett Strallen sings Eliza on the upcoming My Fair Lady recording (see https://www.johnsuchartists.com/scarlett-strallen). 

[Smaxie]

Posted: 7/21/24 at 8:37am

The Ovrtur website goes into some detail about the original orchestrations for Carousel, because it gets complicated.

"Robert Russell Bennett was asked by Richard Rodgers to do the orchestrations. At the time, Bennett was busy working in radio. He did find time to score the first two numbers: "The Carousel Waltz" and "You're a Queer One, Julie Jordan/When I Marry Mister Snow." Don Walker was asked to do the rest.

Walker signed on, but he was busy at the time with a musical for which he was composing the score, Memphis Bound. For assistance, he called on Hans Spialek and Stephen Jones to do some numbers. Joe Glover also helped out by putting together the Entr'acte shortly before the New York opening. Major numbers orchestrated by the others included "When the Children Are Asleep (Spialek) and "This Was a Real Nice Clambake," "The Highest Judge of All" and "You'll Never Walk Alone" (Jones). Spialek and Jones also orchestrated incidental bits and reprises.

After Memphis Bound opened, Rodgers asked Walker to rescore the two numbers scored by Bennett. Walker's job was made difficult because Rodgers asked him to score "The Carousel Waltz" in such a way that the orchestration could be played both by full-size symphony orchestras and the 39-player orchestra being used in the Broadway production. Walker never rescored "You're a Queer One, Julie Jordan," but he did do "When I Marry Mister Snow" in addition to "The Carousel Waltz."

Bennett's orchestrations for the first two numbers are heard on the original cast recording as Walker had not yet had a chance to orchestrate them. Walker never reorchestrated the numbers and incidental bits done by Spialek, Jones, and Glover."

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/21/24 at 1:09pm

Then and now it's not uncommon for an orchestrator or composer to farm out a few numbers to a different orchestrator. Especially if a lot of new material is going in out of town or late in the process. Sometimes those people enjoy working in the style that has already been set.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 7/21/24 at 6:09pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: " But it's tough to get first choices for a project like this, especially if they want the orchestra and vocalists recording together.

When up against the various Broadway and West End cast albums that have been released between Sept 2023 and Sept 2024, will Oklahoma even be nominated for the Grammy? There's already another R&H album (the 80th Anniversary London concert recording), three Sondheims (Here We Are, Merrily, Sondheim's Old Friends), plus major pop music industry names (Hell's Kitchen/Keys, Illinoise/Stevens, The Notebook/Michaelson, The Outsiders/Jamestown Revival, Stereophonic/Butler)."

Re the cast--also keep in mind these are all people John Wilson has worked with before (I think in the Oklahoma booklet, or somewhere, they joke that they're part of his rotating rep company.)  Surely if they got the big names you suggested the budget would be higher (and at least some of them would have to be flown in, etc.)

I completely get your points, but I also don't suspect Chandos had high hopes or expectations that this would get a Grammy nod?  I wonder if it's even on the Grammy radar...

 

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 7/21/24 at 6:16pm

Smaxie said: "The Ovrtur website goes into some detail about the original orchestrations for Carousel, because it gets complicated.""

Yeah it's all wonderfully complicated.  It's funny because as a teen starting to pay attention to orchestrations, I found it odd how A Chorus Line originally had so many different ones (it was due for a variety of reasons but mostly money and timing so they'd ask an orchestrator to do such and such number when they had the time, etc)  A big deal was made with the revival that Jonathan Tunick (one of the original orchestrators) was going to go over the entire show and give it a uniform sound (which was unnecessary I felt...  And of course I mostly prefer the originals, the difference being most noticeable with What I Did For Love's intro.)

BUT the irony is that *most* shows up through the 60s anyway had ghost orchestrators anyway--as the Ovrtur info you posted makes clear (and Steven Suskin's wonderful book on Broadway Orchestrations makes even more clear.)  I'm sure it still happens though I know Sondheim's two orchestrators from 1970 on--Michael Starobin and Jonathan Tunick, of course--have been proud to point out they've never used ghost orchestrators.  Though I know that both HAVE been used as ghost orchestrators for other projects lol

It is interesting that Rodgers insisted on Walker re-orchestrating the RRB numbers but not the others.