Diversity on Broadway- Page 14
Diversity on Broadway
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#325Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 11:19am
AHLiebross said: "Charlie Kringas Inc. writes:
Also, I think a black Eliza [in My Fair Lady] would work really well in America, given our obsession with how black people talk and what we seem to think it illustrates about their value as human beings. Honestly, it fits right in with the show's themes and I'm almost surprised I can't seem to find any mention of it having been done before.
---------------------
Charlie K, I agree with you. In fact, I've often thought about how it could be done. Higgins can be a wealthy black New Yorker, and Eliza can come from Harlem. The accents and some of the songs would have to be changed, such as Eliza's practicing the sentence, "The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plane," and the locations that Higgins picks at the beginning for the people around the opera house would have to be moved to New York.
I think such a production would have a lot to say. Nonetheless, I think it would require a hefty rewrite of Alan Jay Lerner's book and lyrics.
"
Lord, this DOES sound awful. No one needs another story with a white knight saving the sad black person's life.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#326Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 1:27pm
I think just casting Eliza black would be enough to tip audiences off, the point being that British society thought the same of the rigidly structured lower class when Pygmalion was written that so many Americans seem to think of black people in general.
#327Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 1:55pm
Yeah, I'm not convinced.
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
#328Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 3:09pm
To be fair, it would probably work better on Pygmalion, which is sharper in its satire than the relatively mushy My Fair Lady, but the treatment and judgement of black (and Hispanic and Asian and etc etc etc) people based on how they speak is entirely true. I see it right at my workplace, guests complaining to me about the low-income housing building up the road, and how the people who live there wouldn't be living there if "they'd learned English right" (and yet systemic racism denies black people access to equal education opportunities). The parallel is direct and present.
#329Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 3:21pm
Mister Matt said: "This topic is always fun each time it pops up. And no matter what the productions, casting or audiences are like in any given season, the thread will always be exactly the same. Broadway may be diverse, but it will never be diverse enough. Never ever. No matter what. But it's great to read about it once or twice a year."
Has anyone started a calendar yet timing exactly when the actual POC posters here (like me) drop out the first time, sigh heavily, come back, drop out again, and then peek through our non-white hands to see what disaster has transpired in the past several days?
Charley has a good point about Pygmalion, BTW.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#330Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 3:47pmSo have we solved this yet, or what?
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Dave19
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/23/11
#331Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:07pm
The fact is, there is a difference between races. Not in the sense of a black person being worth more or less than a white person, but in the sense of casting. Differences in gender, age, looks, types and hairstyle and yes, race, in any person do matter. Shows are stories, a lot of times about a certain era, based on true events, or not, but always written with a certain intention and type/age/look of a person in mind. When I see Miss Saigon, I don't want to see a white Kim. When I see Dreamgirls I don't want to see a non-african Effie. When I see Phantom or Les Mis I don't want to see a black Valjean or Christine.
People are not blind and they don't need to be.
Christine is not a black girl. That is not the role. Historically it doesn't make sense and it is just silly. Presenting the role as a 50 year old woman or a man would be just as silly. We are talking about casting here, where even the smallest of characteristics and details matter.
People who say that I should accept a 20 year old black Valjean when I buy an expensive theatre ticket should accept a 50 year old white man as Effie White in Dreamgirls too. We are talking about casting here. Blindness doesn't work one way. It either works both ways or not.
The big misconception here is that the casting should be blind. It is the responsibility of the casting directors to fill a role truthfully and not ask the audience to turn a blind eye. Whoever plays that roles doesn't really matter. I couldn't care less if a male was cast as Ursula in the little mermaid, I would be fine with it. As long as he is believable as a woman. When Lea Salonag was cast in les Mis, I did not have to convince myself I wasn't looking at an Asian actress, because she could easily pass for a french girl in that era. I couldn't care less if Effie in Dreamgirls was played by a white girl, as long as they make her look African American and she sounds right for the part and I couldn't care less if a black girl plays Christine, as long as they make her look white with make up and she sounds right for the part. I couldn't care less if the actress was 50, as long as she looks and sounds 16.
It is not the audience that has to be blind. It is the casting that could be.
Edit: For example, Elphaba is green, so she can be played by any race. It's not like she suddenly has to turn black, just because the actress is black.
Updated On: 10/20/15 at 04:07 PM
#333Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:16pm
Dave19 said: "People who say that I should accept a 20 year old black Valjean when I buy an expensive theatre ticket should accept a 50 year old white man as Effie White in Dreamgirls too. We are talking about casting here. Blindness doesn't work one way. It either works both ways or not."
You're a real person! Who figured out how to start an account and type sentences! Wow.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#334Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:24pm
Maybe he's a pet parakeet who, through series of curious coincidences, happened to log in to its owner's computer, open a browser, create an account on this forum, and type out a series of letters that form what appear to be sentences.
#335Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:27pm
Ha. Either way, I've found a new person to block. Productivity?
He could also be a bot that uses not-necessarily-racist-on-their-own phrases but ones that send up red flags, like "the races." Who talks like that? In 2015? On a theatre message board?!
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
Showface
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/25/14
#336Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:29pm
"When I see Dreamgirls I don't want to see a non-african Effie. "
Have you been seeing productions of Dreamgirls in Africa?????
"
When I see Phantom or Les Mis I don't want to see a black Valjean or Christine.
People are not blind and they don't need to be.
Christine is not a black girl."
Funny you should mention, because Kyle Jean Baptise (RIP) was a 21 year old BLACK man, who played Jean Valjean, and her received praise for his performance!
Also, does Christine have an "I'm a white girl, not a black girl song"? No, I didn't think so.
The fact that you would not spend money to see a stellar performance simply due to the color of an actor's skin says all that needs to be said.
"I couldn't care less if Effie in Dreamgirls was played by a white girl, as long as they make her look African American and she sounds right for the part "
Are you trying to justify blackface??
I'm not surprised actually given your posting history here.
And I thought you couldn't hit a new low...
absolutely disgusting
Updated On: 10/20/15 at 04:29 PM
Dave19
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/23/11
#337Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:30pm
Clearly, some people in this discussion fail to understand the terms "racism" and "casting".
What is more racist:
1: "I insist Elphaba turns black when being played by a black actress"
2: "I don't care about the color of the actress as long as the role stays green".
Same goes for Effie in Dreamgirls and Christine in Phantom.
Dave19
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/23/11
#338Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:33pm
"I couldn't care less if Effie in Dreamgirls was played by a white girl, as long as they make her look African American and she sounds right for the part "
Are you trying to justify blackface??"
No, I just don't discriminate actresses of ANY color, like you clearly do. And I want to see a believable performance.
Updated On: 10/20/15 at 04:33 PM
Showface
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/25/14
#339Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:33pm
Dave19 said: "Clearly, some people in this discussion fail to understand the terms "racism" and "casting".
What is more racist:
1: "I insist Elphaba turns black when being played by a black actress"
2: "I don't care about the color of the actress as long as the role stays green".
Same goes for Effie in Dreamgirls and Christine in Phantom.
"
Who said anything about turning Elphaba from green (AND NO ONE ON EARTH IS GREEN) to black?
Showface
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/25/14
#340Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:35pm
Dave19 said: ""I couldn't care less if Effie in Dreamgirls was played by a white girl, as long as they make her look African American and she sounds right for the part "
Are you trying to justify blackface??"
No, I just don't discriminate actresses of ANY color, like you clearly do. And I want to see a believable performance.
"
How am I discrimating, troll? You JUST said a white actress in blackface is more believable than a black actress.
Disgusting.
Dave19
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/23/11
#341Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:35pm
Showface, it's about the role characteristics. Not about the color of the actor. That goes for any role.
Showface
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/25/14
#342Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:36pm
Dave19 said: "Showface, it's about the role characteristics. Not about the color of the actor. That goes for any role.
"
Not in the case of a white actress playing Effie White in blackface.
Dave19
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/23/11
#343Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:37pm
"How am I discrimating, troll? You JUST said a white actress in blackface is more believable than a black actress.
Disgusting."
No mister delusional. I did NOT say that.
I said that I don't care who plays a role, as long as it is the best person and believable.
Again, it's about the role characteristics. Not about the color of the actor. That goes for any role.
Updated On: 10/20/15 at 04:37 PM
Showface
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/25/14
#344Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:39pm
You just said, mister troll
"I couldn't care less if Effie in Dreamgirls was played by a white girl, as long as they make her look African American and she sounds right for the part "
Updated On: 10/20/15 at 04:39 PM
Dave19
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/23/11
#345Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:42pm
"I couldn't care less if Effie in Dreamgirls was played by a white girl, as long as they make her look African American and she sounds right for the part "
"
Yes, that's what I said. As long as I see a believable Effie.
Your option is to give the role to someone just because the actress is black? That's racist and not what casting is about. I couldn't care less is it was a male either. As long as I believe it and don't have to turn a blind eye. No matter what the actor has to do for that.
Updated On: 10/20/15 at 04:42 PM
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
Showface
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/25/14
#347Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:47pm
Dave19 said: ""I couldn't care less if Effie in Dreamgirls was played by a white girl, as long as they make her look African American and she sounds right for the part "
"
Yes, that's what I said. As long as I see a believable Effie.
Your option is to give the role to someone just because she is black? That's racist.
"
No. It's not, troll.
Dreamgirls is a show ABOUT race...you CANNOT cast a non-black person as the main characters. BLACKFACE IS NOT A SOLUTION.
Other shows, like Les Mis and POTO have NOTHING to do with race, so a POC can be cast in these roles that have NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE...do you understand, troll? Do you?
Dave19
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/23/11
#348Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:47pm
Phyllis Rogers Stone said: "Related
"
Is seems that I am one of the few ones here that truly doesn't care about the race of an actor.
That makes me sad.
Showface
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/25/14
#349Diversity on Broadway
Posted: 10/20/15 at 4:48pm
Dave19 said: "Phyllis Rogers Stone said: "Related
"
Is seems that I am one of the few ones here that truly doesn't care about the race of an actor.
That makes me sad.
"
You know what makes me glad, though? The fact that you're not a casting director.
Wait--are you? Because if so, guys we found the root of the issue here!
Updated On: 10/20/15 at 04:48 PM
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