Encores! 2023: LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA with Ruthie Ann Miles, DEAR WORLD with Donna Murphy, and OLIVER!- Page 5

[iluvtheatertrash]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 11:22am

No one says you can’t be excited. I love Raul, but his casting concerns me.

And the fact that two days after Neo Nazis swarmed the theatre district some of you think this discussion is funny is troubling, but not surprising. Once again reminded how many repugnant toddlers post on here. 
 

Back to ghosting because this place is, as usual, toxic. 

[Alex M]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 11:29am

Was hoping for Fierstein as Faigon....love Raúl but echoing concerns about the anti semitic tropes of this character 

[JSquared2]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 11:32am

iluvtheatertrash said: "No one says you can’t be excited. I love Raul, but his casting concerns me.

And the fact that two days after Neo Nazis swarmed the theatre district some of you think this discussion is funny is troubling, but not surprising. Once again reminded how many repugnant toddlers post on here.


Back to ghosting because this place is, as usual, toxic."

This isn't a bus terminal -- so there's no need to announce your departure. Buh bye!

[JSquared2]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 11:37am

Jordan Catalano said: "I'm also so happy that Lilli Cooper's career is going so well. If anyone deserves it, it's her."

I'm not saying that she isn't EXTREMELY talented --- but why do you say "if anyone deserves it, it's her?" How has she earned that distinction? Wouldn't she be considered a "nepo baby" too?

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 11:39am

I said that because I said that and really, that’s why I said it. 

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 11:40am

iluvtheatertrash said: "No one says you can’t be excited. I love Raul, but his casting concerns me.

And the fact that two days after Neo Nazis swarmed the theatre district some of you think this discussion is funny is troubling, but not surprising. Once again reminded how many repugnant toddlers post on here.


Back to ghosting because this place is, as usual, toxic."

It's always toxic when people don't have the same opinions as you, isn't it?

Also toxic? Name calling.

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 11:57am

Okay, so I've never seen Oliver! in any form, so this is a serious question: if Fagin is an anti-semitic character, isn't is better to erase his Jewishness as much as possible, which includes not demanding that a Jewish actor play him? 

[smidge2]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 12:20pm

TaffyDavenport said: "Okay, so I've never seen Oliver! in any form, so this is a serious question: if Fagin is an anti-semitic character, isn't is betterto erase his Jewishness as much as possible, which includes not demanding that a Jewish actor play him?"

Now, there you go making sense Taffy!!

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 12:28pm

TaffyDavenport said: "Okay, so I've never seen Oliver! in any form, so this is a serious question: if Fagin is an anti-semitic character, isn't is betterto erase his Jewishness as much as possible, which includes not demanding that a Jewish actor play him?"

Correct.

Love,
A repugnant toddler (thanks theatertrash!)

[Ke3]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 12:31pm

Casting a non-jewish actor doesn’t change the tropes the role is based on which informs how the audience interacts with the piece. Furthermore, most audiences aren’t  magically aware of an actors ethnic background so that would be a poor attempt at avoiding the issue. Putting a WASP in “Merchant of Venice” wouldn’t change the text. Same applies here. 

We can assume that Encores will make adjustments either through staging decisions or textual revisals. Despite what the reaction to The Life would have you believe, Encores has long reworked texts to soften or erase elements that would be considered far beyond the line of acceptability today. David Ives alone adapted 33 scripts for them.

 

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 12:33pm

. Updated On: 2/24/23 at 12:33 PM

[JSquared2]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 12:34pm

Sutton Ross said: "TaffyDavenport said: "Okay, so I've never seen Oliver! in any form, so this is a serious question: if Fagin is an anti-semitic character, isn't is betterto erase his Jewishness as much as possible, which includes not demanding that a Jewish actor play him?"

Correct.

Love,
A repugnant toddler (thanks theatertrash!)



"

Y'all seem to be missing the point. In the book, Oliver Twist, Fagin is repeatedly referred to as "the Jew" (257 times according to Wikipedia) and is portrayed as "the archetypical Jewish villian".

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 12:43pm

TaffyDavenport said: "Okay, so I've never seen Oliver! in any form, so this is a serious question: if Fagin is an anti-semitic character, isn't is betterto erase his Jewishness as much as possible, which includes not demanding that a Jewish actor play him?"

That's a choice that only the director & producer can make. You can either lean into the character's Jewishness and possibly underscore stereotypes while you're at it (intentional or not), or you can pivot away from the Jewishness altogether and cast a Latino actor. David Margoulis was hyperaware of that with the original Bway production, hence Clive Revill instead of Ron Moody. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer on how to handle that in 2023, and there are probably effective methods for both.

On an entirely unrelated note...MOULIN ROUGE and now this continues the trend of giving the incredibly gifted Tam Mutu absolutely thankless musical theatre roles. Get that check! Updated On: 2/23/23 at 12:43 PM

[smidge2]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 1:08pm

JSquared2 said: "Sutton Ross said: "TaffyDavenport said: "Okay, so I've never seen Oliver! in any form, so this is a serious question: if Fagin is an anti-semitic character, isn't is betterto erase his Jewishness as much as possible, which includes not demanding that a Jewish actor play him?"

Correct.

Love,
A repugnant toddler (thanks theatertrash!)



"


Y'all seem to be missing the point. In the book, Oliver Twist, Fagin is repeatedly referred to as "the Jew" (257 times according to Wikipedia) and is portrayed as "the archetypical Jewish villian". "

And this is the musical adaptation which removed those references. I had no idea Fagin was Jewish all of these years that I watched the movie.

[Cape Twirl of Doom]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 6:50pm

JSquared2 said: "Sutton Ross said: "TaffyDavenport said: "Okay, so I've never seen Oliver! in any form, so this is a serious question: if Fagin is an anti-semitic character, isn't is betterto erase his Jewishness as much as possible, which includes not demanding that a Jewish actor play him?"

Correct.

Love,
A repugnant toddler (thanks theatertrash!)



"


Y'all seem to be missing the point. In the book, Oliver Twist, Fagin is repeatedly referred to as "the Jew" (257 times according to Wikipedia) and is portrayed as "the archetypical Jewish villian"."

OK? And the musical does not use any of those or make any reference to him being Jewish. So not sure why that has any meaning here.

The one production of Oliver! I've seen was with Hugh Panaro as Fagin and he was incredible. Can't wait to see Raul!!

[BJR]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 11:02pm

It's strange for folks to think Lear isn't focused on not only ameliorating such tropes but likely completely removing/transforming them.

Remember, her first season was originally to feature Ashley Park in a revised Millie, with the Asian characters and their subplot changed. And instead, she did, well, everything Encores did last season, which was focused on diversification and removing bigoted tropes from material.

[JBradshaw]

Posted: 2/23/23 at 11:37pm

Cape Twirl of Doom said: "

The one production of Oliver! I've seen was with Hugh Panaro as Fagin and he was incredible. Can't wait to see Raul!!"

@ the walnut in Philly? Hugh was really great 

 

[Cape Twirl of Doom]

Posted: 2/24/23 at 4:17pm

JBradshaw said: "Cape Twirl of Doom said: "

The one production of Oliver! I've seen was with Hugh Panaro as Fagin and he was incredible. Can't wait to see Raul!!"

@ the walnut in Philly? Hugh was really great

"

Yup that’s the one! I highly enjoyed that production.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 11:22pm

Am I remember right that the Encores Oliver! will be based on the Cam Mac london production that has endlessly returned to London (and originally was directed by Sam Mendes, choreographed by Matthew Bourne and starred Jonathan Pryce--I saw it as a teen but all I remember was it was massive, kinda too massive, and had an added prologue.)?

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 2/25/23 at 11:33pm

I don't know if that's the production coming here but I believe the rumor in the UK is the CamMac version is heading back there sometime this year.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 2/26/23 at 6:48am

I wouldn't be surprised at all about it coming back (again) to London. 

The Encores do credit Cam Mac for "By special arrangement" but I guess that's probably because he controls the rights now (?)  I know it was the musical that got him obsessed with musicals and he seems to see himself as its keeper and he did a popular 70s London revival with the original creative team.  Later when he brought that to Broadway (with Patti) and it flopped he decided he should never use "old technology" and production techniques for revivals (so he says) which led to his massive later production. (to his credit when he first did the large revival in 1994 he arranged it so Lionel Bart--who would die in 1999--would get a decent share of the royalties, rights that Bart had sold away years before.)

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 2/26/23 at 11:44am

Any thoughts on the additional Dear World casting? I have a ticket but I don't know if I'll be able to use it. 

[ggersten]

Posted: 2/26/23 at 3:26pm

Cape Twirl of Doom said: "JSquared2 said: "Sutton Ross said: "TaffyDavenport said: "Okay, so I've never seen Oliver! in any form, so this is a serious question: if Fagin is an anti-semitic character, isn't is betterto erase his Jewishness as much as possible, which includes not demanding that a Jewish actor play him?"

Correct.

Love,
A repugnant toddler (thanks theatertrash!)

"Y'all seem to be missing the point. In the book, Oliver Twist, Fagin is repeatedly referred to as "the Jew" (257 times according to Wikipedia) and is portrayed as "the archetypical Jewish villian"."

OK? And the musical does not use any of those or make any reference to him being Jewish. So not sure why that has any meaning here.!"

Yes, I do not think there anyone calls Fagin "the Jew" or similar names. So, there may be no overt references to Fagin being Jewish. That is if you ignore Reviewing the Situation, Pick A Pocket or Two and other musical beats.  The musical Fagin may be more of a charming rapscallion than the Dickens version, but Fagin is definitely Jewish in the musical. 

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 1:42pm

First listen to the Dear World orchestra:

https://twitter.com/NYCityCenter/status/1631724338171846682

 

[BCfitasafiddle]

Posted: 3/3/23 at 2:06pm

Oh, I just can't wait! Can not wait to hear Donna and this fabulous orchestra.